True cold air intake

[carguy75]

Please post lots of pics or getting the stock boxes and ducts out and what space is left when its all removed. That would be very helpful. Thanks.

I will post as many pics as I can. Hopefully there will be enough space to actually do the set-up. I did not remove the air-box housing to take a good look, but I will before I do any other part of this project. I also hope that the 5.0 engine fuel injectors and ECU can compensate for the extra airflow by adding fuel to keep the air/fuel ratio optimal.

I say this because horsepower gains with better flowing intake systems on stock engine usually depends on the fuel injector flow rate and the ECU ability to adjust air/fuel ratio. Some cars actually lose power when the engine runs too lean due to have too much cooler air flow if the fuel injectors can not keep up with the airflow going into the engine. Usually a engine will throw a lean code and/or the engine will go into limp mode/retard timing to compensate. Hence why some performance air-filters actually make more power than when the engine is running without a filter(or air-box attached) in some cases like tested on some YouTube videos. The engine without the filter is probably pulling too much air for the system to account for. So, there is a point where too much air can be bad for an engine if the system cannot utilize it. However, most engines airflow are limited by the stock throttle body size ; so too much air flow such not be an factor, unless the ECU have a certain CFM range that triggers a fail-safe if the measured intake CFM exceeds it.

Hopefully,the 5.0 fuel injectors can keep up and the stock ECU will adapt.

 

[MoonDoggy-X]

I will post as many pics as I can. Hopefully there will be enough space to actually do the set-up. I did not remove the air-box housing to take a good look, but I will before I do any other part of this project. I also hope that the 5.0 engine fuel injectors and ECU can compensate for the extra airflow by adding fuel to keep the air/fuel ratio optimal.

I say this because horsepower gains with better flowing intake systems on stock engine usually depends on the fuel injector flow rate and the ECU ability to adjust air/fuel ratio. Some cars actually lose power when the engine runs too lean due to have too much cooler air flow if the fuel injectors can not keep up with the airflow going into the engine. Usually a engine will throw a lean code and/or the engine will go into limp mode/retard timing to compensate. Hence why some performance air-filters actually make more power than when the engine is running without a filter(or air-box attached) in some cases like tested on some YouTube videos. The engine without the filter is probably pulling too much air for the system to account for. So, there is a point where too much air can be bad for an engine if the system cannot utilize it. However, most engines airflow are limited by the stock throttle body size ; so too much air flow such not be an factor, unless the ECU have a certain CFM range that triggers a fail-safe if the measured intake CFM exceeds it.

Hopefully,the 5.0 fuel injectors can keep up and the stock ECU will adapt.

I dont think anyone with a reasonably modern car has to worry about any of that. The car is made to run in below zero temps as well as temps way over 100° just fine. We are not dealing with any positive pressure or boost here. The most air we can possibly bring in is how much the cylinder demands on its downstroke. We are just trying to get that amount of air to the engine faster and with less restriction.

As far as fuel demands due to colder air, my car had no problem starting and running in 0° last winter after sitting outside all night. There is no mod we can do that will deliver colder denser air than that. We're not sending cooled air through the intake like Dodge, coldest we can do is ambient air temp. The ecu should composate just fine.

 

[carguy75]

I dont think anyone with a reasonably modern car has to worry about any of that. The car is made to run in below zero temps as well as temps way over 100° just fine. We are not dealing with any positive pressure or boost here. The most air we can possibly bring in is how much the cylinder demands on its downstroke. We are just trying to get that amount of air to the engine faster and with less restriction.

As far as fuel demands due to colder air, my car had no problem starting and running in 0° last winter after sitting outside all night. There is no mod we can do that will deliver colder denser air than that. We're not sending cooled air through the intake like Dodge, coldest we can do is ambient air temp. The ecu should composate just fine.

You are probably correct about modern engines having no issue with adjusting to the slightly added airflow from a better intake. I was just stating some information that I read that may clarify why some engines gain a large amount of HP/TQ from increased airflow and some engine has minimum gain to a loss in power. It all comes down to the ECU and sometimes the fuel system, which can be the bottlenecks to squeezing power out of an engine with just increasing airflow.

My LS engine(LQ9 V8) in my Cadillac has a lot information about how much power the engine can make over stock when still using the stock injectors. 380hp is the max that the stock 26lb injectors can handle regardless of how much potentially total hp it could make on crazy mods like intake,cam,ecu tune,etc. The stock MAF sensor also cap out at a certain CFM as well, so the stock engine ECU will not adjust the air/fuel ratio pass a certain point even if the airflow is more due to an performance intake. However, the engine will still make more power because GM engines run very rich from the factory ;so leaning it out makes a lot of power in the LS engine. The LS engines are very de-tuned from the factory

The Genesis Tau engine does not have a large tuning crowd so the max potential is unknown. I can tell that my engine runs a bit stronger with the slightly larger drop-in K&N filters; so I know that the engine responds well to small airflow changes. However, I am not sure if the engine really will make anymore gains from a massively amount of airflow over stock. I am betting that it would. I believe that the Tau engine is a bit de-tuned from the factory as well based on the crappy stock filters and restricted air-boxes. One way to find out.

Stock filters vs. K&N filters. Stock filters are mostly a plastic plate. K&N filled in the unused areas with a bit more filter materiel.

 

[Cali Gen]

You are probably correct about modern engines having no issue with adjusting to the slightly added airflow from a better intake. I was just stating some information that I read that may clarify why some engines gain a large amount of HP/TQ from increased airflow and some engine has minimum gain to a loss in power. It all comes down to the ECU and sometimes the fuel system, which can be the bottlenecks to squeezing power out of an engine with just increasing airflow.

My LS engine(LQ9 V8) in my Cadillac has a lot information about how much power the engine can make over stock when still using the stock injectors. 380hp is the max that the stock 26lb injectors can handle regardless of how much potentially total hp it could make on crazy mods like intake,cam,ecu tune,etc. The stock MAF sensor also cap out at a certain CFM as well, so the stock engine ECU will not adjust the air/fuel ratio pass a certain point even if the airflow is more due to an performance intake. However, the engine will still make more power because GM engines run very rich from the factory ;so leaning it out makes a lot of power in the LS engine. The LS engines are very de-tuned from the factory

The Genesis Tau engine does not have a large tuning crowd so the max potential is unknown. I can tell that my engine runs a bit stronger with the slightly larger drop-in K&N filters; so I know that the engine responds well to small airflow changes. However, I am not sure if the engine really will make anymore gains from a massively amount of airflow over stock. I am betting that it would. I believe that the Tau engine is a bit de-tuned from the factory as well based on the crappy stock filters and restricted air-boxes. One way to find out.

Stock filters vs. K&N filters. Stock filters are mostly a plastic plate. K&N filled in the unused areas with a bit more filter materiel.

Well I can tell you that the 3.8s are way under tuned. A proper tune on these engines are craaazy both the v6 lambda ll and the v8 tau want to goooooo

 

[carguy75]

Well, not many dyno test of the 5.0 Tau engine available that I can find. I found one dyno test on a 2012 5.0 R spec with a guy who just used a short ram with a massive filter like how I was going to do mine at first and it lost power compared to stock dyno of another 2012 R spec 5.0 dyno tested by Edmunds. The short ram test was 354 hp and the stock was 364hp. So our engines do not like hot air no matter the filter size and may lose power based off the little testing I can find.

However, the guy with the short ram claimed to have gained 15hp over the stock air-box and K&N filter in the video comments. So it may be a case of two different dyno calibrations(or gear used) on why Edmunds stock numbers are higher. Edmunds may had a 2012 model with a stronger running V8 or a better shop fan.

 

[Cali Gen]

Well, not many dyno test of the 5.0 Tau engine available that I can find. I found one dyno test on a 2012 5.0 R spec with a guy who just used a short ram with a massive filter like how I was going to do mine at first and it lost power compared to stock dyno of another 2012 R spec 5.0 dyno tested by Edmunds. The short ram test was 354 hp and the stock was 364hp. So our engines do not like hot air no matter the filter size and may lose power based off the little testing I can find.

However, the guy with the short ram claimed to have gained 15hp over the stock air-box and K&N filter in the video comments. So it may be a case of two different dyno calibrations(or gear used) on why Edmunds stock numbers are higher. Edmunds may had a 2012 model with a stronger running V8 or a better shop fan.

2 different dynos as you said we don't know how well maintained/calibrated. The location and obviously all the other variables that go with it can start to play into it.. and the engines themselves from factory could just be different.. thats why dyno numbers really only matter if you have a stock baseline for the car before you ever change a thing or at the very least a baseline of the car before whatever mod is done. Preferably at same location same dyno. I think people have really kind of lost sight of the fact that dyno numbers for a car are really only ever supposed to be compared to other dynos of that same car i.e. i want to try and push this stock block to xxxhp. Used to measure gains or loss(duhh). But when you start comparing numbers to other cars i.e. i want to get xxxhp because that car has xxxhp is where i think it just turns into a bunch of look how small my weiner is to me.

 

[MoonDoggy-X]

Monitored the intake air temps over a few 30 minute trips of mixed driving. Looks like the stock boxes with the coolant bypass keeps the temps steady between 10°-20° above ambient.

It was a moderate 75 degrees by me today. The i take temps were slow to move in either direction once it was within that 20 degree range. When i started driving this morning, it quickly rose to 10 above ambient and slowly fluctuated from there. Closest i got was about 7° above after a few seconds at wide open throttle. After parking for a but and heat soak setting in, the car started at about 60° above ambient. That dropped to about 15 to 20 above after driving a few minutes, but didnt move much from there.

 

[carguy75]

Monitored the intake air temps over a few 30 minute trips of mixed driving. Looks like the stock boxes with the coolant bypass keeps the temps steady between 10°-20° above ambient.

It was a moderate 75 degrees by me today. The i take temps were slow to move in either direction once it was within that 20 degree range. When i started driving this morning, it quickly rose to 10 above ambient and slowly fluctuated from there. Closest i got was about 7° above after a few seconds at wide open throttle. After parking for a but and heat soak setting in, the car started at about 60° above ambient. That dropped to about 15 to 20 above after driving a few minutes, but didnt move much from there.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like the coolant bypass works to keep the intake temps down which in itself makes about as much power as a drop-in performance filter(5-7hp average) in the stock airbox alone going from the Chevy crowd. I assume that the same concept applies to the Tau engine.

So your engine is probably making about 15-20hp extra horsepower I bet with the drop-in filters, smoother piping, and cooler intake temps. Which is not bad for simple mods to the engine.

I used to think that K&N drop-in filters gave my engine about 15hp, however I am leaning more to about 5-7hp average since most gains on many engines tested only really show a 5hp gain along the entire curve in the stock airboxes. I have seen that some cars make more power on dyno with K&N drop-in filters in stock air boxes towards peak red line as the stock filter restricts airflow; which could be like on a G37 I seen tested. Most gains on the graph was about 7hp, but the power curve continue to be strong all the way up to 7000 rpm where it made 15hp more than the stock filter. However, the true usable gain to hp for everyday driving was about 7hp. Still pretty good.

 

[carguy75]

Today I did the coolant bypass. I decided to just use a high quality 5/16 coolant hose to bridge the throttle body coolant ports and bypass the throttle body. The hoses are pretty short. However, the darn factory hoses were literally glued(black sealant) to the hose nipples. It took me forever to remove just one of the small hose end from a nipple. When I test fitted the 5/16 replacement hose I just cut off(split the end with a razor) the other stock hose ends. I only need some 5/16 nipples to cap off the throttle body port. If I have no leaks than it should be good to go.

I may order the two stock hoses(depends on cost) to use just in case I need to go to the dealership for any repair work. I do still have an extended warranty until 100k miles, so they would look for any reason to void it.

I will give some feedback on how the car performs with the coolant bypassed.

The throttle body coolant hoses bypassed with a single connecting 5/16 coolant hose.


The small stock hoses. Not much to them except that they are a pain to remove.


I also took a good look at the stock air-boxes and the layout of the engine bay. The engine bay has too many hose and lines on the driver's side to even attempt to bypass the stock air-box. I also noticed that the center section of the air-box also support the radiator fan. My radiator fan moves a bit with the center section removed, so I guess I will keep it.

It looks like the stock air-box is good for what it is, so I will just leave it as is. I may remove the protective end caps(shields) located on the end of the intake ducts(behind the front bumper) that prevent large debris from entering the intake. The stock inlets are small, but does pull in cool air just under the headlights from the grill, so not a bad design. I also may cap off the holes in the center section to smooth out the airflow while being able to keep the system as stock as possible. So I will just tweak my stock air intake since it already a true cold air intake system.

The 2015+ 5.0 stock air-boxes are not perfect but well designed to be honest. They seem to flow more than the 2012-2014 5.0 models with the single air-box, so the gains with an intake may be less than a 2012-2014 due to stock intake system already being better designed to pull in cooler air from twin air-boxes.

Passenger side



Driver side



Center section with holes that can be plugged to bypass the baffle boxes.

 

[MoonDoggy-X]

Hmmmmm... Tight clearances on both sides for sure. I am still going to remove the air boxes completely when i get a chance. I think we need to know where from and how much fresh air they are getting. There'd be no point in throwing cones in those corners if there isn't an ample supply of fresh air for them to use. Even with a heat shield.

I suspect that the inlet to those boxes are small, and/or convoluted, to keep impurities out and noise down. Finding a way to increase flow to the boxes may be our next best option.

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[carguy75]

Hmmmmm... Tight clearances on both sides for sure. I am still going to remove the air boxes completely when i get a chance. I think we need to know where from and how much fresh air they are getting. There'd be no point in throwing cones in those corners if there isn't an ample supply of fresh air for them to use. Even with a heat shield.

I suspect that the inlet to those boxes are small, and/or convoluted, to keep impurities out and noise down. Finding a way to increase flow to the boxes may be our next best option.

Space is very limited in our engine bay. The stock setup seems like the best way to go to be honest; expect for the size of the air ducts lending to the front grill area which could be larger for more air flow. However, with the air-boxes removed there may be more space to fit air filters inside the fender area if they are any holes large enough to put a filter inside of.

As it appears the stock setup is pretty good out the box and will be hard to make any gains without pulling in more outside airflow. I will only plug the center resonator holes and may remove the debris shields from the air inlet ducts when I remove my bumper to access my headlights. The UV film is peeling on my headlights so I will buff them out and swap in some Osram Night Breaker HID bulbs at the same time. I will remove the inlet shields if they look really restrictive.

The Genesis is actually really well designed out the factory, not much to really improve on. We can tweak few a things here and there(better tires,air filters/air inlet pipes, wiper blades,etc.) but it is pretty good as is to be honest.

 

[MoonDoggy-X]

Space is very limited in our engine bay. The stock setup seems like the best way to go to be honest; expect for the size of the air ducts lending to the front grill area which could be larger for more air flow. However, with the air-boxes removed there may be more space to fit air filters inside the fender area if they are any holes large enough to put a filter inside of.

As it appears the stock setup is pretty good out the box and will be hard to make any gains without pulling in more outside airflow. I will only plug the center resonator holes and may remove the debris shields from the air inlet ducts when I remove my bumper to access my headlights. The UV film is peeling on my headlights so I will buff them out and swap in some Osram Night Breaker HID bulbs at the same time. I will remove the inlet shields if they look really restrictive.

The Genesis is actually really well designed out the factory, not much to really improve on. We can tweak few a things here and there(better tires,air filters/air inlet pipes, wiper blades,etc.) but it is pretty good as is to be honest.

Does the front bumper have to be taken off to remove the inlet shields?

 

[carguy75]

Does the front bumper have to be taken off to remove the inlet shields?

Not certain, but it seems so since the shields are located in the same location as the airbox inlet ducts on each side of the radiator and may be bolted down. It may be possible to access them from the fender well area with the fender lining removed.

I ordered some rubber plugs to seal up the resonator holes in the center airbox junction assembly. It looks the bottom half the center junction piece can be removed. The bottom portion of assembly can be ordered as a replacement part, so it should be removable. I will remove the resonator box and fit the plugs so the larger ends of the plugs fit inside the resonator portion just in case they come out so they will not be sucked into the engine, but just fall into the lower resonator box.

The bottom portion part number is 28191R. Hopefully I can access the holes from the inside with it removed and plug them. The shields look like they may only attached to the ducts which are held by screws.

 

[carguy75]

Monitored the intake air temps over a few 30 minute trips of mixed driving. Looks like the stock boxes with the coolant bypass keeps the temps steady between 10°-20° above ambient.

It was a moderate 75 degrees by me today. The i take temps were slow to move in either direction once it was within that 20 degree range. When i started driving this morning, it quickly rose to 10 above ambient and slowly fluctuated from there. Closest i got was about 7° above after a few seconds at wide open throttle. After parking for a but and heat soak setting in, the car started at about 60° above ambient. That dropped to about 15 to 20 above after driving a few minutes, but didnt move much from there.

Today I used my Torque app to measure my stock intake air temp with the throttle body coolant bypassed and it was about 100F after an hour drive in ambient 79F weather. The drive was a mix of about 20 miles city and about 8 miles highway with a few stoplights along the way where the intake temps rose while the engine idled.

My coolant temps were about 200F at the end of the drive and averaged about 180-190F along most of the drive to work. The intake temp remained in the 80-90F range until the end of the hour drive.

I believe the intake temps with the coolant flowing through the throttle body was in the 120F+ range. So it seems that the throttle body coolant bypass reduced intake temps by 20-30F degrees. Which is not bad for such a simple mod. This is similar to using a cold air intake is a way while still keeping the factory air box. I am happy with it so far.

 

[carguy75]

Well, it seems that the TAU engine does like cooler airflow. The engine seems to accelerate will more urgency from all speeds. Today on a empty highway I just gave it some gas from about 70mph and it ran to 145mph much quicker( or close) than it took run to 130mph before on the same stretch of road that I test top speeds on.

The funny thing is that the engine got there effortlessly and still was pulling very strong before I let off the gas at 145mph. Before, the engine would move to about 130 pretty quickly and then seem to lose some steam pass 135mph. So, the 5.0 engine does like having the 30F cooler intake temps and seem to have advanced the timing and leaned out the air/fuel ratio to account for the cool air. Therefore, I think that having the hot coolant keeping the intake temps in the 120F+ range causes the system to run very rich while retarding the timing a bit, like most modern stock fuel systems that run on the richer side and have heated throttle bodies as well.

Just speculation. All I really know is that cooler air going into the throttle body works well with my 5.0 engine.

 

[Itsanaddiction]

Burger Motorsports Performance Dual Intake w/ Filter & Mounts Kia Stinger | Genesis G70 18-19?

Project is a no go. I repeat. No go. I just check the hood clearance and the large AFE air filter will just barely fit with the hood closed. Therefore it will only pull in air from three sides. Plus the filter will sit literally in front the radiator fan by an inch. The space in the engine bay is tighter than I imagined. The filter will fit I believe with some tweaking, but it will not have any chance to pull in enough air as it could while just pulling hot engine bay air at that. Project a bust because it would be a waste of time and money since the filter will be nearly pressing against the hood.

The best method is to use a y-pipe and two large filters on the ends that goes behind the headlights for cooler air flow. I will have to do some more research and come up with a system that will work. It will not be a easy project from what I see.

Good news, Amazon customer service will credit me my money if the third party seller refuses to accept a refund for the filter. Even told me that I can keep the filter if the third party refused to accept returns if they get involved. I had a similar issue happened before where I gained a free 15in Kicker subwoofer when a third party seller refused to accept a return.

 

[Itsanaddiction]

Burger Motorsports Performance Dual Intake w/ Filter & Mounts Kia Stinger | Genesis G70 18-19?

I was thinking that I would use a y-pipe and additional pipe sections like you have done already. My change would be to use 45 degree bent pipes with some supports welded on to them that places a couple of large cone filters just under the headlights. I will remove the factory air boxes completely. So far that is my plan. Once I get my Amazon refund money I will talk to a local shop about cutting the pipes and welding the mounting supports so that the supports matches a stock air-box bolt hole location for mounting. I will also ask if they can add a thermal coating to the piping to clean up the look.

Hopefully I can get it all done for about $300 total. The y-pipe and 45 degree sections can be gotten for about $100. The custom work is what is going to cost the most money. Heats shield can added later.

Project is a no go. I repeat. No go. I just check the hood clearance and the large AFE air filter will just barely fit with the hood closed. Therefore it will only pull in air from three sides. Plus the filter will sit literally in front the radiator fan by an inch. The space in the engine bay is tighter than I imagined. The filter will fit I believe with some tweaking, but it will not have any chance to pull in enough air as it could while just pulling hot engine bay air at that. Project a bust because it would be a waste of time and money since the filter will be nearly pressing against the hood.

The best method is to use a y-pipe and two large filters on the ends that goes behind the headlights for cooler air flow. I will have to do some more research and come up with a system that will work. It will not be a easy project from what I see.

Good news, Amazon customer service will credit me my money if the third party seller refuses to accept a refund for the filter. Even told me that I can keep the filter if the third party refused to accept returns if they get involved. I had a similar issue happened before where I gained a free 15in Kicker subwoofer when a third party seller refused to accept a return.

Burger Motorsports Performance Dual Intake w/ Filter & Mounts Kia Stinger | Genesis G70 18-19