What other cars are you considering now?

[Mark_888]

here in Canada with a $64k+ sticker on the V8 AWD the allure of value has diminished substantially. More-so when you consider the not so stellar resale value on the Genesis as opposed to the competition in the luxury/sport class.

Hyundai's do not typically have the highest resale value. But resale value for the Genesis has been worse due to the large number of Genesis sedans sold to rental car companies, which typically dump them after about 2 years. At least that is true in the US.

 

[Motegi]

My wife and I both wanted to see what the TLX would be like since I've always had a great ownership experience with Acura but now that they have delayed it indefinitely we couldn't wait any longer.

When we were looking for my wife's next car, we drove in order of her favorite to least favorite:
1) '15 Genesis 3.8 (what she chose)
2) '14 Accord V6 Touring
3) '14 Acura TSX V6 Tech
4) '14 Acura TL SHAWD Tech
5) '14 Volvo S60
6) '14 Toyota Camry V6 XLE
7) '14 Lexus ES
8) '14 Ford Taurus and Fusion
9) '14 Kia Optima and Cadenza
10) '14 Hyundai Sonata and Sonata Hybrid

Infiniti was not considered due to our horrible prior ownership experiences of both the G35 coupe and sedan.

Also test driven at the same time for my own search were the '14 Audi A8L/S6/A7, '14 Lexus GS F-sport, '14 BMW 5-series, '14 Cadillac CTS, '14 Aston Martin Rapide, '14 Aston Martin Vantage V12.

 

[hooktee]

2012 audi A7 cpo is my choice.

 

[Alwaysforward]

My wife and I both wanted to see what the TLX would be like since I've always had a great ownership experience with Acura but now that they have delayed it indefinitely we couldn't wait any longer.

When we were looking for my wife's next car, we drove in order of her favorite to least favorite:
1) '15 Genesis 3.8 (what she chose)
2) '14 Accord V6 Touring
3) '14 Acura TSX V6 Tech
4) '14 Acura TL SHAWD Tech
5) '14 Volvo S60
6) '14 Toyota Camry V6 XLE
7) '14 Lexus ES
8) '14 Ford Taurus and Fusion
9) '14 Kia Optima and Cadenza
10) '14 Hyundai Sonata and Sonata Hybrid

Infiniti was not considered due to our horrible prior ownership experiences of both the G35 coupe and sedan.

Also test driven at the same time for my own search were the '14 Audi A8L/S6/A7, '14 Lexus GS F-sport, '14 BMW 5-series, '14 Cadillac CTS, '14 Aston Martin Rapide, '14 Aston Martin Vantage V12.

Motegi How did you like the S60 Volvo? Was it the R version? I like the looks of that car but never sat in one.

 

[jjsC6]

Interesting thread. One guy says the that as it gets over $50k it does not offer the value anymore. You have not priced the competition. I have a current BMW 550 and a new Lexus GS350. Comparably equipped they are $10-$20K more than the new Hyundai. Others are comparing the Hyundai to a used something else.

 

[GRIFF]

Another consideration may be availability of dealerships. I have friends with Mercedes and Volvos that will not take them on trips due to lack of dealerships that can provide service in some areas.

 

[Mark_888]

Interesting thread. One guy says the that as it gets over $50k it does not offer the value anymore. You have not priced the competition. I have a current BMW 550 and a new Lexus GS350. Comparably equipped they are $10-$20K more than the new Hyundai. Others are comparing the Hyundai to a used something else.

Several weeks ago I posted in another thread a link that showed that the average selling price of the MB E series (combination of 350, 550 and with various options), is about the same as the current selling price of the 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate. Many have reported that E series are selling for about $10K off MSRP right now, and 2015 Genesis is selling near MSRP.

It is true that the average E series purchased doesn't have all the features of a 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate. But why do people purchase a car with all those features? Do they really need them, or is it some sort of status they seek to have car with every single fancy gadget? If it is status they seek, then consider that a MB automatically achieves a pretty high level of status even without having every single option or feature purchased. I think the average person is going to look on a MB as a higher status car than a Hyundai Genesis, no matter how many features the Genesis has, and most people just look at the outside of the car, and not inside to see exactly what options are installed. I think this is particularly true of women, and lets face it, a lot of men buy cars to impress women, or to satisfy the desire of their wife or GF to project status to others.

Let's say a guy is dating a woman, and want to impress her parents that he is a successful person worthy of being married to their daughter. He shows up at her parents house with either a 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate, or a MB E350 with decent options (but not fully loaded). How successful is he going to be in convincing the GF's mother that the Hyundai Genesis is really a better car than the MB E350, or that he is really just as successful as someone who drives an E350? Women don't care about the gadgets, or that Lotus helped with suspension tuning, they are primarily in interested in prestige. Now if the Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate was $10K less than the MB E350, that would be different because the MB E350 is no longer a comparably priced car. When prices come down about $5K off MSRP, then the Genesis starts looking a little better.

 

[ksoze]

I have friends with Mercedes and Volvos that will not take them on trips due to lack of dealerships that can provide service in some areas.

That makes no sense. Those cars have roadside assistance and will tow anywhere and get a rental. Most insurance carriers also offer roadside assistance.

 

[pusaterkm]

Acura never enters my circle of consideration as they are more closely rebadged Hondas more so then Lexus and Infiniti having Toyota and Nissan roots. Plus I find them very ugly. I have never liked the buck tooth grille. Just my taste I am sure that others like them.

And to the question of the Genesis not being as much of a value.... CTS Vsport premium was 79k Benz was 86k to try to get equipped as close to what the Genny has at 56k. Plus this new Genny is just a fantastic, A1, top notch, jaw dropping car.

 

[Mark_888]

Another consideration may be availability of dealerships. I have friends with Mercedes and Volvos that will not take them on trips due to lack of dealerships that can provide service in some areas.

Are those older cars that frequently need service? There are over 300 MB dealers in the US, compared to 800 Hyundai dealers, so I don't quite believe that story. There are also a lot of independent shops that specialize in MB repairs due to the high cost that MB dealers charge for service (but they obviously don't provide warranty service).

I suspect that a lot of people just don't want to rack up a lot of miles during long trips in their MB, since most are leased with limits on the miles that can be driven without paying extra when the lease term is finished. Also, some don't like be targets for thieves in tourist areas. When someone buys a MB, they are more interesting in impressing people they know, rather than complete strangers they will never see again.

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[Mark_888]

Acura never enters my circle of consideration as they are more closely rebadged Hondas more so then Lexus and Infiniti having Toyota and Nissan roots. Plus I find them very ugly. I have never liked the buck tooth grille. Just my taste I am sure that others like them.

I don't think that "rebage" argument is true across the product line, nor is it very relevant even in those cases where there is some truth:

• Honda's are generally outstanding vehicles, and putting in more luxury finishes and features, better suspension, more powerfull engines (or at least make higher power engines as standard equipment), Super-Handling All Drive, etc on a Honda is about all I could ever ask for in a luxury car.
• Maybe you don't know much about MB or BMW, but in Germany most of them sold are not luxury cars, and most are stripped down models with small engines without luxury features, so the ones sold in the US are just rebadged cheapo MB and BMW according to your logic.
• Can you say that the Genesis is not a rebadged Hyundai. WTF, The Genesis is a Hyundai !!!

 

[ksoze]

I suspect that a lot of people just don't want to rack up a lot of miles during long trips in their MB, since most are leased with limits on the miles that can be driven without paying extra when the lease term is finished.

One guy said he has some friends who won't drive far in their german car and now we have a theory? All car leases have mileage limits that I am aware of - is Hyundai's unlimited miles?

When someone buys a MB, they are more interesting in impressing people they know, rather than complete strangers they will never see again.

That is a stretch to assume one only drives a MB where there are people they know to make an impression.

 

[pusaterkm]

I don't think that "rebage" argument is true across the product line, nor is it very relevant even in those cases where there is some truth:

• Honda's are generally outstanding vehicles, and putting in more luxury finishes and features, better suspension, more powerfull engines (or at least make higher power engines as standard equipment), Super-Handling All Drive, etc on a Honda is about all I could ever ask for in a luxury car.
• Maybe you don't know much about MB or BMW, but in Germany most of them sold are not luxury cars, and most are stripped down models with small engines without luxury features, so the ones sold in the US are just rebadged cheapo MB and BMW according to your logic.
• Can you say that the Genesis is not a rebadged Hyundai. WTF, The Genesis is a Hyundai !!!

I've been on this forum since I got my 4.6 Genesis in 2011 and it has always been a place where people can freely share their opinions. I have always tried to ignore your posts because you are a rude, self righteous douche bag. You insult everyone with your posts and think that your opinion is the end all. You make assumptions and post without understanding. I have been a auto enthusiast for 40 years. I have raced and restored cars. I still have a show wining 1972 442 that I have owned since 1987. In short, I know a little bit about cars so don't presume to talk down to me like you do to others here. I state that my posts are my opinions and others are free to form their own.

I never stated that Hondas were not well built cars. I do find them to be boring and unattractive. (My opinion) I also feel that for the premium market, Acuras are too closely related to their Honda counter parts, more so than Lexus is to Toyota and Infiniti is to Nissan.

My market is in North America so I really don't care what is available in Europe or any where else. The BMW and Benz models here are full on premium luxury. And if they are BMW and Benz in Europe then they haven't rebadged anything.

The spirit of my post was in response to the what cars have you considered question. I listed what cars I considered in a previous post and followed up with why I did not consider Acuras. I drove and priced the CTSvsport, Benz E 550, and the Genesis 5.0. I bought the car that I liked the best so I don't give a flying H what badge is on the car. Is that the right choice for everyone? No, of course not, but it was for me and fits in nicely with the 2014 cadillac SRX and 1972 442 that I own.

So I suggest that you move out of your mothers basement, get laid, or see a doctor about your inflated self worth and then come back here and apologize to all of the posters that you have insulted and berated over the years.

 

[jjsC6]

Several weeks ago I posted in another thread a link that showed that the average selling price of the MB E series (combination of 350, 550 and with various options), is about the same as the current selling price of the 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate. Many have reported that E series are selling for about $10K off MSRP right now, and 2015 Genesis is selling near MSRP.

It is true that the average E series purchased doesn't have all the features of a 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate. But why do people purchase a car with all those features? Do they really need them, or is it some sort of status they seek to have car with every single fancy gadget? If it is status they seek, then consider that a MB automatically achieves a pretty high level of status even without having every single option or feature purchased. I think the average person is going to look on a MB as a higher status car than a Hyundai Genesis, no matter how many features the Genesis has, and most people just look at the outside of the car, and not inside to see exactly what options are installed. I think this is particularly true of women, and lets face it, a lot of men buy cars to impress women, or to satisfy the desire of their wife or GF to project status to others.

Let's say a guy is dating a woman, and want to impress her parents that he is a successful person worthy of being married to their daughter. He shows up at her parents house with either a 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate, or a MB E350 with decent options (but not fully loaded). How successful is he going to be in convincing the GF's mother that the Hyundai Genesis is really a better car than the MB E350, or that he is really just as successful as someone who drives an E350? Women don't care about the gadgets, or that Lotus helped with suspension tuning, they are primarily in interested in prestige. Now if the Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate was $10K less than the MB E350, that would be different because the MB E350 is no longer a comparably priced car. When prices come down about $5K off MSRP, then the Genesis starts looking a little better.

First of all, I don't even remotely believe the AVERAGE selling price of a E class is $10,000 off list. I got into a debate about that on the BMW form a while back and nobody could substantiate those deals. Second, the new Genesis is just that. In six months there will be big deals again, and even now there are reports of a few thousand off.

 

[Mark_888]

I've been on this forum since I got my 4.6 Genesis in 2011 and it has always been a place where people can freely share their opinions. I have always tried to ignore your posts because you are a rude, self righteous douche bag. You insult everyone with your posts and think that your opinion is the end all. You make assumptions and post without understanding. I have been a auto enthusiast for 40 years. I have raced and restored cars. I still have a show wining 1972 442 that I have owned since 1987. In short, I know a little bit about cars so don't presume to talk down to me like you do to others here. I state that my posts are my opinions and others are free to form their own.

I never stated that Hondas were not well built cars. I do find them to be boring and unattractive. (My opinion) I also feel that for the premium market, Acuras are too closely related to their Honda counter parts, more so than Lexus is to Toyota and Infiniti is to Nissan.

My market is in North America so I really don't care what is available in Europe or any where else. The BMW and Benz models here are full on premium luxury. And if they are BMW and Benz in Europe then they haven't rebadged anything.

The spirit of my post was in response to the what cars have you considered question. I listed what cars I considered in a previous post and followed up with why I did not consider Acuras. I drove and priced the CTSvsport, Benz E 550, and the Genesis 5.0. I bought the car that I liked the best so I don't give a flying H what badge is on the car. Is that the right choice for everyone? No, of course not, but it was for me and fits in nicely with the 2014 cadillac SRX and 1972 442 that I own.

So I suggest that you move out of your mothers basement, get laid, or see a doctor about your inflated self worth and then come back here and apologize to all of the posters that you have insulted and berated over the years.

Obviously, you prefer to make personal attacks instead of either letting others state their position or you defending yours. Everyone on this forum is entitled to state whatever opinions they have, and that includes both yourself and myself.

My opinion is that people who are willing to purchase a Hyundai Genesis, but complain that an Acura is a rebadged Honda, are committing a rather obvious fallacy, and I think I have to right to state that.

The bottom line is that whether a Acura is a rebadged Honda (which really isn't true of Acura, but that is another story) or a brand new design, is completely irrelevant to me (and probably most others), because it is the quality of the finished product that matters. Brand new designs frequently have their own problems with functionality and reliability.

The biggest factor in my Genesis purchase was that the entire Genesis drivetrain was not new. The Hyundai Lambda V6 was a proven design used in many Hyundai/Kia vehicles before the Genesis, and the Aisin Transmission has been used in many other brands, including Lexus (Aisin was formed as a joint venture between Toyota and Borg-Warner). The Tau V8 was new in 2009, but is also used in other Hyundai and Kia vehicles, and the original V8 transmission was made by ZF. Obviously, you disagree. That is your right, but please grow up and quit the personal attacks.

 

[Motegi]

Women don't care about the gadgets, or that Lotus helped with suspension tuning, they are primarily in interested in prestige. Now if the Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate was $10K less than the MB E350, that would be different because the MB E350 is no longer a comparably priced car. When prices come down about $5K off MSRP, then the Genesis starts looking a little better.

My wife chose her Genesis over Lexus and others so what does that say. In particular she liked the way it drove, the roominess, and the driver assistance features. In fact, most women that I know don't really care about cars at all.

The whole "chick magnet car" thing is a myth in my opinion. A guy is better off buying a puppy and taking it to public places rather than an expensive car.

When one drives a fancy sports car it tends to get more looks from males than females. So I guess it would be a good idea for a single female to get a sports car instead.

By the way, there is an interesting video by one of the writers on Jalopnik who owns a Ferrari and found that it gets almost no attention from females

 

[Mark_888]

First of all, I don't even remotely believe the AVERAGE selling price of a E class is $10,000 off list. I got into a debate about that on the BMW form a while back and nobody could substantiate those deals. Second, the new Genesis is just that. In six months there will be big deals again, and even now there are reports of a few thousand off.

I would not have suspected that E class is selling for $10,000 below MSRP, but quite a few others have posted that information on this forum.

Here is some additional information I previously posted:

According to a Business Week news article, here are the average transaction prices in the USA "last month" (presumably April 2014) for some of the competitors of the Genesis:

• Cadillac CTS $54,571
• MB E-Class $55,788
• BMW 5 Series $56,284

These are the average selling (or transaction) prices regardless of engine, features, packages, etc. As some have noted, MB-E routinely sells for $10K under MSRP for the last several years at least.

Considering that some people are now paying MSRP or more for a 2015 Hyundai Genesis, which for a loaded V6 is $52,450 and a loaded V8 is $55,700, that is pretty interesting. Granted a loaded Genesis has more tech features than the average MB-E or BMW-5, but prestige factor is still pretty important to most people.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-19/cadillac-finally-makes-german-luxury-prices-stick

 

[Mark_888]

My wife chose her Genesis over Lexus and others so what does that say. In particular she liked the way it drove, the roominess, and the driver assistance features. In fact, most women that I know don't really care about cars at all.

The whole "chick magnet car" thing is a myth in my opinion. A guy is better off buying a puppy and taking it to public places rather than an expensive car.

When one drives a fancy sports car it tends to get more looks from males than females. So I guess it would be a good idea for a single female to get a sports car instead.

By the way, there is an interesting video by one of the writers on Jalopnik who owns a Ferrari and found that it gets almost no attention from females

There are always going to be exceptions, and not all women are alike. Good to hear that your wife is not a superficial person.

I do agree that most women don't care much about cars, but they do care about perception of the "brand" of car that one drives. And there is definitely a difference between a fancy sports car and a MB E350. Sports car says unreliable spouse (playboy), and MB E350 says respectable, reliable, etc (please don't tell me how unreliable MB is, because a woman would not think that when she sees a MB).

Of course, there is definitely an advantage of a Genesis over a MB. You should never drive a more prestigious car than your boss, or else you may never get a raise (you boss may assume you don't need one). The Hyundai Genesis is good in that respect since it is stealth luxury.

 

[Motegi]

Not everyone is buying a 2015 V8 Ultimate.

Sure the top end of the Genesis range will overlap with the lowest end of the high end brands but you can get a well equipped 2015 V6 Genesis for much less.

Go for Signature if you don't need the driver assistance. Go for Tech if you want the safety features.

 

[waveman]

It is true that the average E series purchased doesn't have all the features of a 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate. But why do people purchase a car with all those features? Do they really need them, or is it some sort of status they seek to have car with every single fancy gadget? If it is status they seek, then consider that a MB automatically achieves a pretty high level of status even without having every single option or feature purchased.

There are many reasons to buy options that don't have anything to do with status. When I get around to shopping for my next car, I'm going to look for one that provides affordable safety-related options like blind spot detection and automatic emergency braking that can compensate for lapses in attention, fatigue, and so on. Unnecessary gadgets to some, but well worth it to me. Unfortunately, these features are sometimes packaged with options that I wouldn't otherwise get, but so be it.

Let's say a guy is dating a woman, and want to impress her parents that he is a successful person worthy of being married to their daughter. He shows up at her parents house with either a 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 Ultimate, or a MB E350 with decent options (but not fully loaded). How successful is he going to be in convincing the GF's mother that the Hyundai Genesis is really a better car than the MB E350, or that he is really just as successful as someone who drives an E350?

We're a few years away from that scenario, but when the time comes, I'm sure that neither my wife nor I will care much about the car that our daughter's prospective fiancé is dating, as long as it's clean, safe, and appears well-maintained. In fact, I'd be more concerned if he drives up in a high end MB or BMW than, say, a Genesis or Sonata.