Why Genesis is cheaper than its competitors?

[WowCool]

Hi -> My2wins.
you seem to be completely unhappy with your Genesis..that's sad..
I would suggest a trade in for a Beemer or Lexus..
and let their Forums hear your bleatings/moans..
To be honest I'm fed up reading your bleatings........

My New 2012 VW Passat SE was in the workshops once or twice a week for nearly 4 months, then VW replaced it with a New 2013 Passat SEL (Top Range)
Which I immediately traded in for the Genesis..Best decision ever......

 

[wd40]

Hi all.. Really curious to know why genesis is cheaper than its competitors for example a 5 series, well the genesis offers high quality interior, high quality ride may be better ride and quieter than a 5 series for most people including me, strong solid design, lots of power from base engine, economy and 5 star safety and lots of technologys, so why its cheaper?? What makes it cheaper, or let me say like that, why a 5 series or an E class is more expensive while genesis lacks nothing, just because its hyundai its cheap? Or a 5 series is a BMW its expensive ??!!

Lexus came into the market around 1990 with the LS400, and if you recall they were a far better deal than Mercedes or BMW. Now pricing advantage has disappeared. We'll see if that happens with Hyundai.

 

[Cobra]

A few examples (specific to my 4 month old 2013):

Blue link navigation function does not deliver requested POI at least half the requests (probably more like 80% fail rate); hours with customer service bring passed around between blue link and hyundai -- multiple instances of no follow up from both and dead ends

Built in Driver Info System (including Navigator) is not intuitive and the documentation is limited (pictures of the equipment and basic descriptions of the functions); both manuals and online educational materials are elementary. If you can't figure it out yourself you basically are out of luck

Blue link voice commands differ from DIS voice commands. You have to remember two different menu structures.

Voice quality of speaker phone is intermittently so bad people can hear me. I have to bring headsets for any time I have an important call

There are about 50 other things that I could say but won't.

The car drives like a dream and is gorgeous. But most aspects of the technology package and advanced electronics have been a huge disappointment to the point where I'd sell the car if I could wave a magic wand, but alas I don't have the time. Someone else willing to go through the extensive discovery process may love this vehicle once they learn it, but I was not prepared to have so many things be dysfunctional and I don't want to be a part time Genesis trouble shooter. All this may not be as troublesome for others who enjoy the thrill and challenge.

I hate to use this analogy since it's imperfect, but the best way I can describe my Genesis tech package is the difference between an iPhone in 2013 versus a smart phone circa 2009. Yes, on paper all the features are there. They can both make calls, send texts, browse the Internet, install apps, etc. But the usability and functionality is drastically limited in the latter. Simple things were missing like, oops you can't cut and paste text. Or you can't talk and browse at the same time. Things you don't know would be buzz kills till you buy it and start using. That's how I feel about the Genesis tech package. A lot of features that on paper look very comprehensive and impressive. But in reality there is very limited actual functionality. The product is still in beta.

Well at the end nothing is perfect.. So neither Genesis nor a BMW , every one has its down sides

 

[SmoovC]

I hate to use this analogy since it's imperfect, but the best way I can describe my Genesis tech package is the difference between an iPhone in 2013 versus a smart phone circa 2009. Yes, on paper all the features are there. They can both make calls, send texts, browse the Internet, install apps, etc. But the usability and functionality is drastically limited in the latter. Simple things were missing like, oops you can't cut and paste text. Or you can't talk and browse at the same time. Things you don't know would be buzz kills till you buy it and start using. That's how I feel about the Genesis tech package. A lot of features that on paper look very comprehensive and impressive. But in reality there is very limited actual functionality. The product is still in beta.

Eh... ahem. I feel that the circa 2013 iPhone is more limited than a 2009 Android phone.... but that's just me.

I would agree with you on a few points; the stats are all there on paper for the Genesis. It is the execution of said features that leaves a bit to be desired. However, at the given price point, it is still a pretty damn good buy.

 

[ASHDUMP]

Since I am having troubles with my 2010 Genesis having the motorized steering wheel repaired for the third time under warranty, and the adjustable lower seat cushion for the second time in less than 5K miles, I would argue that Hyundai's are very expensive compared to the relatively low maintenance Japanese cars, that I now consider a better value. Keyless entry has failed on the driver door, now, and voice activated nav button has to be pushed 20 times before it listens. They say the nav button is working, but that's just not true, so I will have them show me it's working before I accept the car back. They are waiting on parts for the rest.

I am discouraged, and admit that I feel I lost the bet buying a Genesis. The suspension on my 2010 was so bad I replaced it, and the relatively cheap suspension is better than the stock. It's in the shop way too often for an Asian car. I thought I was smart buying one, but now I am looking to unload it far sooner than I normally would a car, as the 60K warranty is coming to an end, and I cannot see paying to fix the car as often as it is broken. Why would I believe these repeatedly broken pieces now have a long term fix?

There are many people on this board with good experiences; I am glad for them. If my Genesis were lower maintenance, I would keep it 200K miles as I have kept many of my Japanese cars. I like the looks of my Genesis as much or more than any other car on the market. Don't like the newer ones as much. But low maintenance is a value of mine, and so this car isn't for me. I never imagined I should have bought the extended warranty for this car, but clearly I should have. Even so, taking a car in for repairs gets old fast.

It's cheaper because the design quality was less. Similarly, I think luxury German cars are wildly overpriced, if you value long term low maintenance over cutting edge tech and panache.

To bad you're having all these issues. I'm quite the opposite however I have the larger 4.6 engine. The car has not one real issue and now has 92k miles on her. I will admit a couple things that have come up in the past 10 months or so are; parking sensors don't work anymore, my XM antenna cuts in and out sometimes (prob a loose connection) - Thats it.

After almost 4 years and 92k with doing nothing other than oil changes I'd say I'm doing pretty good. I also purchased my car used so my warranty ran out at 60k.

My girlfriend also has a kia sportage with 136k. That car hasn't had one issue either and its almost 8 years old.

Lexus and Toyota a still more expensive than Hyundai/Kia and do not have the same warranty. I would say you're on the fringe of consumers with issue with your car.

 

[my2wins]

Hi -> My2wins.
you seem to be completely unhappy with your Genesis..that's sad..
I would suggest a trade in for a Beemer or Lexus..
and let their Forums hear your bleatings/moans..
To be honest I'm fed up reading your bleatings........

My New 2012 VW Passat SE was in the workshops once or twice a week for nearly 4 months, then VW replaced it with a New 2013 Passat SEL (Top Range)
Which I immediately traded in for the Genesis..Best decision ever......

Yep, I'm tired of it too. Glad your expectations were met with the Genesis. Mine certainly were not. It's sad that the tone of this forum is so unwelcoming of varied and disparate opinions. Hope it continues to serve your interests well.

 

[Mark_888]

Yep, I'm tired of it too. Glad your expectations were met with the Genesis. Mine certainly were not. It's sad that the tone of this forum is so unwelcoming of varied and disparate opinions. Hope it continues to serve your interests well.

Although I have had very few problems with my Genesis, it doesn't bother me if others post their opinion. Personally, I am sick of those complaining about those who complain, but I believe that everyone is entitled to say what they want so long as they don't violate forum rules.

 

[my2wins]

My2wins, weren't you awaiting some equipment/parts fixes? Perhaps a defective microphone in the cockpit? I don't recall you updating us on the outcome.

Regarding the phone problems, are you running the AC/Heater fan too high during calls? The manual cautions against that.

Granted, I don't have Bluelink, but I have none of your problems with my '12 Premium Package-only car. You might have over-teched yourself in buying the Tech. Also, you may be relying too much on voice activation. Your car is relatively new and it does take time to get accommodated.

Hi, I appreciate your note.
Yes, I was purportedly waiting for fixes after an appointment at Burlingame Hyundai. They said they'd order a new mic, and I'd get a call in a week or two to set up an installation. Never heard from service desk so I called them to follow up after four weeks. They transferred me back and forth between parts department and service department. No one had a record of the order.

I've subsequently given more thought and now suspect its not the mic, because the DIS has nearly perfect voice recognition. But not blue link or speaker phone. Seems to me its a problem with the satellite link while the car's in motion, because 1) blue link works better when the car is not in motion (50/50 instead of 90% fail), and 2) the telematic lady's voice is crackly as if there's a bad connection. I'm guessing if I can't hear her, she probably can't hear me.

I just decided not to renew my bluelink and chalk this one up to a learning experience. I'm hoping that something magically changes in the future, such as better satellite coverage in my area.

While using the phone, I'm careful not to run AC or fan, all windows up, not a peep around me. I made the mistake driving it home for the first time, of having the fan on lowest setting, and realized right away it needs to be dead silent to use the phone. I've adapted by just bringing headset. Old school.

The mistake I made was not testing the technology first hand before taking possession of the car. It all just sounded good on paper so I assumed there's no way it wouldn't work as advertised. Live and learn.

Thanks for the suggestions though and the inquiry, I really appreciate the helpful intention and do believe I'd have adored this car if I didn't overdo the tech. Drives great, love how it looks. Should have stopped there. :}

 

[deepcolor]

Unions maybe?
Not quite the same as a BMW or a Mercedes either.

Name brand is another reason. I can buy Levis for $80 or I can get a pair of Wranglers for $30. People pay for the name...

As my sister said, " A Hyundai?? Why didn't you buy a Mercedes?" Cause I just need to get from point A to point B in a comfortable fashion. I'm WAY too old to worry about what people think of me when it comes to the badge on the hood.

bingo! big labor, both european and domestic.

 

[sooththetruth]

So I heard back from Hyundai. They had a regional service manager call me back. I had requested that Hyundai extend the warranty on the motorized steering wheel mechanism and the lower driver's seat cushion, as the power would fail in both of them. The motorized steering was replaced for the THIRD TIME since new (and I once drove it broken for 15 K miles because it broke in a good position) and the seat motor was just replaced for the second time, though I seldom move the seat. I find it's broken almost by accident when I test the parts. The car is still under warranty with 56.5K miles.

The caller was very nice, but regretted that Hyundai would not be able to extend the warranty on those two items. The mileage warranty is what it is, and all that. But he did say that if these items broke again after the warranty expired that hyundai would take that into consideration. EXACTLY THE ANSWER MICHAEL KARESH of True Delta predicted they would give. The service guy (really polite, I want to repeat) had never heard of True Delta, and I admit it's not a big name. But I am sending him the link and the email Karesh had sent me.

He was discouraged to hear that the plastic base plate had not been attached on both sides of the front seat, and that I had to play with it to snap it back in. But that's just trivial. They also failed to link the steering mechanism to the memory button. The seats and mirrors remember positions, but the steering wheel always goes to a neutral position much lower than I normally set it. I read the manual to make sure i was resetting the memory correctly, but it didn't work.

On this board someone suggested that my car was an outlier. He may be right, but if that were the case then good service would have corrected the problem correctly the first time. The service adviser at my dealership has admitted to me that the seats and the motorized steering column IS the bugaboo of the Hyundai Genesis, at least of my year. I didn't get it in writing, but I have no reason to doubt her.

They are tired of me at the dealership. It's not that I'm wrong, it's just that they're tired of being reminded that I would like things fixed right. So they dread seeing me, but they're always polite.

Again, I don't like buying cars from out of town. Nearest big cities are 75 miles away. Our local Toyota dealership owner is a hard-sell, disrespecting man that I used to consider a friend, until I walked onto his lot. We don't have a Mazda dealership, but the Nissan dealership has been excellent since I bought my daughter's car there. (you wonder why I didn't buy her a Hyundai?). No Subaru, Lexus, or Infiniti local, either.

Sigh, i really thought I was on to something with the Hyundai. The service guy calling from Atlanta did nothing to make me feel better, just offered to call the Service Manager for me about the steering wheel memory problem...so I can be without a car for a couple more days. Maybe I'll get a loaner again.

I have effectively dissuaded my father from buying an Equus. He loved my Genesis when I bought it. He has purchased a German car, against my advice, but he likes the Mercedes name. Mercedes seems to be working hard to fix their reputation on reliability.

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[snork]

It also comes down to how much profit margin the manufacturer wants.

Just as an example, the average midsize car that is manufactured in the USA (Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu) costs about $8,500 in direct parts and labor to manufacturer. Obviously, these cars sell for about $25k on average but you also have to consider all the design, engineering, testing, development, advertising, etc. that goes into bringing a car to market.

Lux brands typically have higher profit margins per unit which is afforded by the "luxury" desirability, but are lower volume production. Whereas Hyundai and all your typical manufacturers have lower profit margins, but have much greater volume of units sold (10x+ plus compared to lux brands). So they can make similar amounts of money from "cheaper" cars because of the volume differences.

 

[radicaltimes]

I bought my 2009 new. It is an ok car but it is cheaper because it is not as advanced as some of the other cars. My 1998 corvette and 2002 Dodge Ram have a lot of features that are nicer and more advanced than what came on my Genesis

 

[scottdk]

I bought my 2009 new. It is an ok car but it is cheaper because it is not as advanced as some of the other cars. My 1998 corvette and 2002 Dodge Ram have a lot of features that are nicer and more advanced than what came on my Genesis

I can name 1: Oil temp display on the Vette...what else am I missing?

 

[Jbo]

Radicaltimes.....what planet do you reside on?

 

[PMCErnie]

I bought my 2009 new. It is an ok car but it is cheaper because it is not as advanced as some of the other cars. My 1998 corvette and 2002 Dodge Ram have a lot of features that are nicer and more advanced than what came on my Genesis

What, your Genesis doesn't have a tailgate and running boards?!

 

[WowCool]

Originally Posted by radicaltimes
I bought my 2009 new. It is an ok car but it is cheaper because it is not as advanced as some of the other cars. My 1998 corvette and 2002 Dodge Ram have a lot of features that are nicer and more advanced than what came on my Genesis

-> What no guy with the Flag...........

 

[radicaltimes]

I can name 1: Oil temp display on the Vette...what else am I missing?

On the vette, it knows what fob is used and selects the memory setting for the seats, The radio remembers the settings for evey channel, not just one used for all of them,the junky old Dodge lets me see what the name of the song playing is , oh and the trip odometer on both vechles goes higher than 999 miles. Oil life monitoring, the list can go on. One more thing is the resale value. .Wait until you see what the Hyundia is worth after a few years. Mine with only 24,000 miles was worth 16,000 in perfect condition in the spring of 2013.
And after dicking with Hyundia for 2 1/2 years because my Lexicon radio would not work in cold weather they finally replaced the head unit aft
er replacing everything eles twice

 

[shagnat]

I agree with the sentiment of radicaltimes. I'll say the Hyundai quality is sub-par on it's best day. At least that's my opinion after owning my 2nd Hyundai (first was the Azera, yuck!)

 

[medhat]

Why is my Casio watch cheaper than a Breitling?

This answer (in the form of a question) was the first and the best. How much is a brand worth? That's pretty much the difference in price.

 

[YEH]

Lexus came into the market around 1990 with the LS400, and if you recall they were a far better deal than Mercedes or BMW. Now pricing advantage has disappeared. We'll see if that happens with Hyundai.

The LS still has a price advantage (about $20k cheaper than an S Class), just not as great as before when it was cheaper than a well-equipped E Class.

As long as the Genesis (and other luxury Hyundai models) are not sold under a luxury nameplate and separate dealer network, they will always have a certain amount of cost/price advantage.

Why is my Casio watch cheaper than a Breitling?

Maybe a better comparison would be with Seiko and Breitling.

Seiko sells numerous basic quartz watches for $150-800, but they also have a line of automatic diving watches which retail in the thousands.

Unions maybe?
Not quite the same as a BMW or a Mercedes either.

Korean unions are more militant than the ones in Germany.

Name brand is another reason. I can buy Levis for $80 or I can get a pair of Wranglers for $30. People pay for the name...

Otoh, Levis was losing marketshare against the boutique jeans brands (which go for $150-300 or even higher), which is why Levis started their own specialty line of Levis jeans which are priced higher.

Hyundai is able to price their vehicles for the US market lower than the competition for a variety of reasons. Among the primary reasons are:

1) Their labor costs and costs per vehicle is much lower. Even in the US plants due to the fact that their plants are modern state-of-the-art plants.

The biggest reason for the lower labor costs was due to valuation of the won, which sank after the Asian financial crisis.

Now that the won has appreciated in value, it's actually cheaper for Hyundai/Kia to build cars at their Czech/Slovak plants.

Also reason why GM is planning on moving production of certain models from Korea to Spain.

Another factor in lower cost for Hyundai is that pretty much all their factories are running at 100% capacity (if not over 100% normal capacity).

However, the Korean auto union forced Hyundai to abandon having a 3rd (nite) shift which prevents their plants from being run pretty much around the clock, something that the US plant still does.

Anyway, it looks more and more likely that Hyundai will be expanding its production capacity in NA, most likely in Mexico.