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Why not the Lexus ES350?

carsareus

Registered Member
52
18
8
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Lexus may not be as reliable as it used to but its still one of the most reliable brands and has much less depreciation than many brands including Genesis. Take a look at some of the Lexus and Genesis forums to compare defect or problems that people complain about. Its night and day to me. One poll from a single company doesn't convince me of anything! I obviously knew it was a mistake to make this comment in a Genesis forum. Its hard for people here to be objective when they own a Genesis already. I don't own either brands of these cars so I have an open mind.
 

RCH04

Registered Member
96
26
18
Illinois
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Lexus may not be as reliable as it used to but its still one of the most reliable brands and has much less depreciation than many brands including Genesis. Take a look at some of the Lexus and Genesis forums to compare defect or problems that people complain about. Its night and day to me. One poll from a single company doesn't convince me of anything! I obviously knew it was a mistake to make this comment in a Genesis forum. Its hard for people here to be objective when they own a Genesis already. I don't own either brands of these cars so I have an open mind.
I don't follow Lexus/ES350 since I don't own one any more, but when I did I noticed that the various reliability listings for most brands/models fluctuates up or down periodically. Both Lexus and Genesis do well in most of the listings.

Regarding the ES, even with stagnant or declining sedan sales it's doing very well. Sales thru October are 41,766 (+7%).
 

Mcc

Supporting Member
SUPPORTING MEMBER
2,547
491
83
Los Angeles
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G90
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carsareus

Registered Member
52
18
8
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Please don't pretend to be a mind reader, I never said that! I'm the only person who can decide what car is best for ME! I'm not saying the Genesis cars are bad so don't be BUTT hurt because you own one. I'm in various forums to educate myself about the facts and get others opinions good or bad. You don't have to agree with what my opinions are but they are mine!


I other words, don’t confuse me with the facts, my mind is, already made up.
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Mcc

Supporting Member
SUPPORTING MEMBER
2,547
491
83
Los Angeles
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G90

carsareus

Registered Member
52
18
8
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
Genesis makes higher quality cars than Lexus! I'm now agreeing with you since you have obviously proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt! Feel better? Now my quest continues. I'm hoping to see if additional information will be released on the 2021 G80 in the coming months before I make any decisions. Thanks for your input.
 

dingyibvs

New member
14
11
3
Genesis Model Type
No Genesis Yet!
I'm in a similar situation as you however I'm actually leaning towards the Lexus instead. I own a 2013 Honda Accord EXL and a 2016 Corvette Z06. My next car will obviously replace my Honda. I was looking at the Lexus GS, however its long in the tooth and most people are amazed they even came out with a 2020 model. I'm now looking at a ES instead since it was just refreshed. Keep in mind that the 2020 ES series does support Android Auto. I'm unsure if you know it however there have been many complaints with the ML stereo and the back speakers in the car not being loud enough and no ability to control them. I'm also a long time Audiophile and regularly go the Shows in Denver, Southern California and Schaumburg Illinois and in fact will be attending the show out of Chicago in April. Even with its faults I understand the ML stereo is very good. I have visited the Lexus dealers and looked at many ES models but I've yet to hear the ML stereo. My comments are based on what I have read in numerous forums.

Playing lossless audio is not a huge deal for me in a car environment but I get what you are saying. If you get the Luxury or Ultra Luxury Lexus they come nicely equipped and they are a luxury car. You will always get more options for the money with the Genesis models. What I'm confused about is what are you looking to buy? The G70 and the G80 are completely different cars. The G80 is a larger car and more luxurious while the G70 is a faster and more sporty car. Even if you buy a Sports model ES, the differences between the ES 350 aren't that great. I'm a regular in these forums and also several Lexus forums. I was hoping the redesigned G80 would be released as a 2020 model but now it appears it won't be out until late next year as a 2021 model.

While I love the Genesis, I have some serious concerns about the Dealer support network and even about the quality of the cars. I've never owned either car and I'm basing this entirely on what I read in the forums. I do think the Genesis cars are good quality, however its my belief they aren't up to the Lexus standards. Keep in mind Lexus is consistently #1 in reliability so they are pretty much the top dog. If Genesis can come close to competing with that they are doing a good job. I'm in no rush to buy a car today so I'm just waiting it out and collecting more information. I have also been to numerous Genesis dealers and have looked at both the G70 and G80. Let us know what you decide to do. I think buying either brand would be fine, however you need to be prepared to make sacrifices depending on what you are looking for in a car. To me the Genesis look better than the conservative and somewhat boring Lexus models. I have my pet peeves about both brands so in the end its a personal choice.
Our Toyotas and Lexus are amazingly dependable, and it's by far the biggest reason that it's still in it. I really want a mid-sized RWD car for a change though, and like you said the GS is quite long in the tooth. As for the dependability debate, I tend to rely on data. Specifically I like using Carcomplaints and Repairpal. For Carcomplaints I divide the # of complaints by the # of cars sold to get a complaint/car ratio. By this metric Hyundai/Kia have caught up or surpassed just about everyone except for Toyota/Lexus. Repairpal gathers repair data from 2000+ actual repair shops, and calculates the average repair cost as well as repair complexity for each model. By this metric Hyundai/Kia has caught up to and may have even surpassed Toyota/Lexus. Reliability is important to me, I would not be looking at Genesis if I didn't think it's reliable.

The dealership network is definitely a concern, but I actually have one pretty close to me. It seems to be growing pretty fast, so by the time the car will need significant support hopefully that'll no longer be an issue.

The ML system is quite good. At least in my '14 RX the lack of adjustments (EQ, speaker balance) is a bit disappointing, but the rear speakers are just fine. In its normal setting, to the average person the rear speakers may sound like it's got lower volume, but that's intentional. It's done for accurate staging, and in a real concert the only sounds you hear from behind you should only be some reverberations. It has a "surround sound" mode that boosts the rear speaker volumes, which should satisfy the average listener who just wants to hear music from every direction. The issue for me is that the car's DAC cannot process FLAC music, so when I'm playing music through my phone

As for the other points. I really want a mid-sized sedan, but my wife wants me to get a smaller car since we already have a the RX SUV. She also thinks the G80 looks old-fashioned, and the G70 suits our early-mid 30's age better. I just want a comfortable, powerful cruiser that can kick out its tail a bit every now and then though. She usually gets her way lol, but G70 being a brand new model with its likely associated growing pains may be more of a decider for us. As for the Lexus ES, I'm glad they're finally getting with the times and adding Android Auto, but since I'm looking primarily at lightly used cars this may be too late for me, and it doesn't seem to be offered for the GS anyway. Even the Luxury and Ultra Luxury packages don't offer enough amenities for me. My top 3 tech needs in the car are AA, 360 degree camera, and HUD in that order. The Luxury/UL packages are fairly rare, finding one with 360 degree camera and HUD, both are options beyond any package, would be quite tough.
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Avocent

Registered Member
42
33
18
Genesis Model Type
Genesis G70
LoL - Kind of tense in this thread. but i'll throw in my $.02.

There is absolutely nothing imo really wrong with the Lexus before deciding on the G70 I test drove a new IS, ES and a GS. The things I didn't like were the comparative slowness of the IS350 compared to the 3.3 G70, The ES interior design for this current model year leaves me cold, the gauge cluster looks straight out of a space shuttle, the GS is just to Big for my needs. All 3 suffer IMO from atrocious infotainment setups that have been widely criticized in multiple car reviews. I tried to look pass it but found myself annoyed thoroughly.

The Genesis is fairly straightforward and has a well designed fairly easy to use infotainment, the power and standard features were also part of my buying decision.

The Squeaky wheel gets the grease all manufacturers have issues and lemons and bad dealers. Forums IMO usually attract 2 types of people in droves 1) The Complainers 2) The Fanboys and the rest are usually in the middle like politics. I like Like the Genesis Brand and the Lexus Brand but I Love my car (3.3 G70 AWD). I come here to get information on helping me improve my vehicle and to stay abreast of any reoccurring issues I should be aware of and prepared for mainly.

I am currently looking for a 2007-2009 Lexus IS 350 because I find that car was well designed the way I like with great proven reliability, so yes i'm a Lexus fan as well but I plan to make that my everyday commuter car and grocery getter. I have been unable to bring myself to allow any drinks or food in my G70 I love my interior.

You really can't go wrong either way, if you pick the car that suits you best.
 
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