Why Rebadge trunk lid?

[jimb100]

I think Hyundai is positioning the Genesis to be a MB E-class plus. We are only seeing the opening salvo. I would think that they are working on an R-spec that would give the level of performance that you now see in the MB/BMW/Audi. Car and Driver doesn't rate the Cadillac CTS #2 for Mid-size Luxury cars because of it's base model. Genesis is rated #6 without a true performance option. Where would it be with an R-spec option?

With that, the continuum would be:

• Genesis R-spec (performance)
• Genesis 3.8 (entry luxury)
• Genesis 5.0 (full luxury)

All the reviews I've seen (except Cnet) seem to have trouble categorizing the Genesis 5.0.

Being stuck in a rut, they fall back on price. "lets find the nearest priced competitor, it must be like that". Doesn't work for the Genesis 5.0.

As near as I can tell, it isn't missing much to offer a true alternative to the S class and the Audi A8. I suspect in daily driving you would be hard pressed to find much difference, if any at all. From the tech to the ergonomics to the fit and finish, I wonder if, blindfolded, anyone could tell the difference.

My wife got rid of her Benz SL last year, it stickered at $108k. Using that as a comparison for fit, finish and quality of materials, the Genesis 5.0 is oh so close. Her current Lexus IS 250 is not even close.

 

[ksoze]

As near as I can tell, it isn't missing much to offer a true alternative to the S class and the Audi A8. I suspect in daily driving you would be hard pressed to find much difference, if any at all. From the tech to the ergonomics to the fit and finish, I wonder if, blindfolded, anyone could tell the difference.

Those buyers are a far reach. MB S class buyers are not buying on value or blind tests. That is a buyer probably a far grasp from Hyundai who would not buy one at half the price. Audi 8 drivers will also be a hard win for Hyundai. I suspect many an Audi A8 driver would be able to tell the difference blindfolded, if from only the more taut ride and steering. I have driven the Audi S8 on the track and there is no way not to know you are in an Audi - both from the car and the heavily depleted checking account.

 

[jimb100]

It's hard to figure out because MB doesn't include everything in packages like Hyundai and most other automakers (and you can custom order a MB from the factory). They have a ton of little options that can be added, many of which are not available to USA Genesis.

E350 comes with either 17" or 18" wheels (no extra charge for 18") but has these wheel upgrades:

• 18-inch AMG twin 5-spoke alloy wheels ($500)
• 18-inch 5-double-spoke wheel ($1,910)
• 19-inch 5-double-spoke wheel ($2,400)

Here is a sample of other stuff that can be added:

• Sport (real) wood/leather steering wheel ($590)
• Electronic Trunk Closer ($560)
• Split-folding rear seats ($440)
• Rear Seat Entertainment system ($1,910)
• Parking Assist Package with PARKTRONIC with Active Parking Assist/Exit and Surround View System ($1,290)
• Illuminated Star (hood logo) ($480)

A MB dealer near me has 24 E350's in stock with MSRP range of $56,695 - $63,430. The median MSRP (number 13) is $59,920. Discounts of about $7,000 off MSRP can be had these days due to heavy competition as BMW, MB, and Audi battle for the sales lead in the luxury categories. Some people on this forum have claimed that discounts of $10K off MSRP can be had for this car, but I have no independent knowledge of that. However, discounts on SUV's and crossovers is much less (pretty much all brands).

OK, I went back to Edmunds and took another look.

I have a Genesis 5.0 Ultimate, 2015. The car I priced there is a Mercedes Benz E Class 2015 with the 3.0 L twin turbo engine.

Power output makes this engine comparable to the Genesis.

With almost all the same options as the Genesis 5.0 Ultimate the 2015 the Benz stickers at right around $75K. Add the Bang and Olafson stereo (how does this compare to the Levinson, I don't know) and the car stickers at $79K

You are attempting to compare a 2014 E class with an inferior engine to a 2015 with a 420 HP Genesis.

Why don't you go over to Edmunds and price a 2015 E Class and then you can compare apples to apples.

 

[jimb100]

Those buyers are a far reach. MB S class buyers are not buying on value or blind tests. That is a buyer probably a far grasp from Hyundai who would not buy one at half the price. Audi 8 drivers will also be a hard win for Hyundai. I suspect many an Audi A8 driver would be able to tell the difference blindfolded, if from only the more taut ride and steering. I have driven the Audi S8 on the track and there is no way not to know you are in an Audi - both from the car and the heavily depleted checking account.

Whether Audi buyers would ever go for the Genesis is not the point. The point is, in a side by side comparison on fit, finish, quality of materials, tech, performance, what are the differences and how much difference is there.

I could care less if the Audi buyer would look at the Hyundai or not. That has nothing to do with comparing the two cars.

And yes, I agree, the A8 is made to be an Autobahn cruiser at unlimited speeds. In this one area, nothing compares to the German cars because the expensive ones are made for the Autobahn.

Car companies make cars for the people in their countries. Without an unlimited speed limit you won't find American or Korean or Japanese, or French, etc. making cars with this particular performance.

In a side by side comparison does this give a "win" to the Germans on this checklist item? It does. Is this item significant to people in countries with speed limits? Less so.

 

[jimb100]

From a feature/function point of view, the Genesis is definitely a better deal than the MB. That's why I own a Genesis and why I am a member of this forum. However, the comparable MB E350 is not anywhere near $77,125 as claimed.

Likely you didn't notice MB dealers are closing out the E350 2014 edition because the 2015's with new engines will soon be available.

Doesn't it make more sense to compare a 2015 E class with a 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate?

If you want to look at things your way, Compare the 2014 E Class with the 2014 Genesis. But then you'd be back to more than $20K price difference.

 

[Mark_888]

Likely you didn't notice MB dealers are closing out the E350 2014 edition because the 2015's with new engines will soon be available.

Doesn't it make more sense to compare a 2015 E class with a 2015 Genesis 5.0 Ultimate?

If you want to look at things your way, Compare the 2014 E Class with the 2014 Genesis. But then you'd be back to more than $20K price difference.

I compared MSRP numbers, which has nothing to do with whether dealers are closing out the 2014's. MB has been discounting with incentives to dealer for a long time due to a lot of competition with BMW and Audi. The dealer's website didn't list any 2015's E Series yet (2015 E Series is not mentioned on MB USA webpage either).

If comparing a 2014 Genesis vs 2014 MB E350, you are correct that Genesis is a lot less expensive, but also doesn't have all that active lane keeping, emergency stop stuff that I added to the MB config. I do agree that the 2009-2014 Genesis was much less expensive than a MB E350, but with the 2015 Genesis Hyundai is really getting up there in price, although the 2015 Genesis is definitely a better car than 2014 Genesis.

 

[Mark_888]

OK, I went back to Edmunds and took another look.

I have a Genesis 5.0 Ultimate, 2015. The car I priced there is a Mercedes Benz E Class 2015 with the 3.0 L twin turbo engine.

Power output makes this engine comparable to the Genesis.

With almost all the same options as the Genesis 5.0 Ultimate the 2015 the Benz stickers at right around $75K. Add the Bang and Olafson stereo (how does this compare to the Levinson, I don't know) and the car stickers at $79K

You are attempting to compare a 2014 E class with an inferior engine to a 2015 with a 420 HP Genesis.

Why don't you go over to Edmunds and price a 2015 E Class and then you can compare apples to apples.

I thought you were comparing the 2015 Genesis 3.8 Ultimate vs MB E350. If you want to compare the Genesis 5.0 Ultimate I think that adds about $5K to the price of the Genesis.

As I mentioned, there are no 2015's on the MB website, so they are not available yet and can't comment on the prices.

 

[jimb100]

They may not be on the MB site but, as I said, Edmunds has pricing.

If you don't want to compare the 2015 Genesis with the 2015 E Class using Edmunds pricing, don't make price comparisons.

Comparing 2014 E Class pricing with the 2015 Genesis is misleading.

By the way, you brought up $10k discounts on the 2014 E class.

 

[jimb100]

I compared MSRP numbers, which has nothing to do with whether dealers are closing out the 2014's. MB has been discounting with incentives to dealer for a long time due to a lot of competition with BMW and Audi. The dealer's website didn't list any 2015's E Series yet (2015 E Series is not mentioned on MB USA webpage either).

If comparing a 2014 Genesis vs 2014 MB E350, you are correct that Genesis is a lot less expensive, but also doesn't have all that active lane keeping, emergency stop stuff that I added to the MB config. I do agree that the 2009-2014 Genesis was much less expensive than a MB E350, but with the 2015 Genesis Hyundai is really getting up there in price, although the 2015 Genesis is definitely a better car than 2014 Genesis.

Not really 'getting up there in price' compared to the E if the E is going to be $75k, apples to apples.

 

[Mark_888]

Not really 'getting up there in price' compared to the E if the E is going to be $75k, apples to apples.

A MB, feature for feature, is definitely more expensive than a Hyundai Genesis. Same for most other Hyundai cars such as Sonata vs Accord, etc. I don't think we need to argue that, but I can't comment on the price of a phantom 2015 E400 (which is what you found) since it doesn't exist yet in the USA.

But most people (not all) shop based on price, not features. So if someone has $50K to spend, they are going to look at all the cars at that price and decide which one they want. If someone chooses a Hyundai over a MB (at or near same price) at least some people seem to be willing to swap a more prestigious brand for less features. But Hyundai is making strides in the brand perception area, but still a ways to go if comparing to MB (even if MB costs a fortune to maintain).

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[jimb100]

Do you really think Edmunds has phantom or make believe pricing?

Very few people I know, especially in this price range shop on price not features.

Again, if you're not trying to say MB is a better value, what is your point?

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Why rebadge the trunk? Because an MB E Class may or may not cost significantly more than a Genesis.

 

[Mark_888]

Do you really think Edmunds has phantom or make believe pricing?

Very few people I know, especially in this price range shop on price not features.

Again, if you're not trying to say MB is a better value, what is your point?

I am not saying a MB is a better value, I said the opposite. If you go by car itself, without the badge, the Hyundai Genesis is a better deal. But I think a lot of people do consider the badge when they buy a car (or change the badge if they don't like it). MB E Series sales are significantly higher than Genesis Sedan in the US and worldwide.

Regarding the 2015 MB E400, it replaces the E550 which did not sell very well. I don't expect a lot of sales volume for the E400 either, since it is more of sport sedan than a luxury car. For example here are the 0-60 times of E550 vs 2015 Genesis 5.0:

• 2014 Mercedes E550 Coupe (RWD) 0-60 mph 4.3 sec
• 2014 Mercedes E550 4MATIC (AWD) Sedan 0-60 mph 4.6 sec
• 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 RWD 0-60 mph 5.3 sec
  

The E400 3.0L Twin Turbo is not going to be as fast as the E550, but I would not be surprised if it beat the Genesis from 0-60.

As to what the E400 costs, and how it compares to the 5.0 Ultimate, I will wait for the reviews and official specs/pricing.

 

[PMCErnie]

This thread seems to have fallen on hard times.

 

[jimb100]

I am not saying a MB is a better value, I said the opposite. If you go by car itself, without the badge, the Hyundai Genesis is a better deal. But I think a lot of people do consider the badge when they buy a car (or change the badge if they don't like it). MB E Series sales are significantly higher than Genesis Sedan in the US and worldwide.

Regarding the 2015 MB E400, it replaces the E550 which did not sell very well. I don't expect a lot of sales volume for the E400 either, since it is more of sport sedan than a luxury car. For example here are the 0-60 times of E550 vs 2015 Genesis 5.0:

• 2014 Mercedes E550 Coupe (RWD) 0-60 mph 4.3 sec
• 2014 Mercedes E550 4MATIC (AWD) Sedan 0-60 mph 4.6 sec
• 2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0 RWD 0-60 mph 5.3 sec
  

The E400 3.0L Twin Turbo is not going to be as fast as the E550, but I would not be surprised if it beat the Genesis from 0-60.

As to what the E400 costs, and how it compares to the 5.0 Ultimate, I will wait for the reviews and official specs/pricing.

And that's why the 2015 Genesis is not a direct competitor to the E class. Check the EPA size classifications for yourself.

 

[Mark_888]

And that's why the 2015 Genesis is not a direct competitor to the E class. Check the EPA size classifications for yourself.

You are absolutely right. The Genesis is a competitor to the S Class and LS460, not just in terms of size, but also features. I am quite sure that 90% of Genesis owners test drove those cars before settling on a Genesis.

 

[PMCErnie]

Mine is bigger than yours.

 

[gobluefan]

I did the trunk lid rebadge yesterday. I followed the instructions given in this forum and it went well and it does look beautiful. The fact that my dealer told me that someone will do it for $299 now seems outrageous. The most time consuming part was determining the exact positioning of the new winged emblem.

 

[Gunkk]

This thread seems to have fallen on hard times.

Hahaha!!

 

[jimb100]

You are absolutely right. The Genesis is a competitor to the S Class and LS460, not just in terms of size, but also features. I am quite sure that 90% of Genesis owners test drove those cars before settling on a Genesis.

Whether they do or not is irrelevant. As a Genesis owner I'm surprised you are so into what everyone else thinks!

I've always thought comparisons should be objective, you know features and benefits rather than the herd mentality.