Recommending the best synthetic oil

[Mark_888]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Amsoil. It's top notch stuff, validated by studies that the RP (Royal Purple) producers/marketers have always avoided. I like to run their stuff for my transmission fluid and find myself cheaping out for Mobil 1 --lol..yeah..read below...

Amsoil is basically a combination of part cult, and part bait and switch scheme. The very expensive Amsoil products are theoretically good, but don't meet API specs for fuel economy (Amsoil claims it is too expensive to get them API certified). Yes, the high grade Amsoil stuff will last 15K+ miles, but you must change your oil at least every 7500 miles to maintain your warranty, and there will be a price to pay for the poorer fuel economy of that oil.

The Amsoil stuff that most people buy is not as good and is basically a blend of Group III hydrocracked conventional oil (made famous by Castrol Syntec) and Group IV PAO true synthetic, and does not show up in any of the test results they publish. Unless they recently switched suppliers, Amsoil purchases their PAO/Ester stock from ExxonMobil (there are only a few PAO manufacturing plants in the the US).

 

[zielritter]

All of the after-market filters (including Wix) sold for the Hyundai Genesis are made by the same OEM filter manufacturer as the Hyundai filter. I buy the Hyundai filters online since they are just as cheap as any of the others I have seen.

The TSB is for all Hyundai's and all years. It is not specifically for the Genesis or the Wix filter. However, the filter did change for 2012, so make sure you get the correct one.

Ok, so the after-market filters come with the needed o-rings? Do they also come with the crush washer, or is this good reason to go ahead and get the OEM kit directly from Hyundai?

 

[Mark_888]

Ok, so the after-market filters come with the needed o-rings? Do they also come with the crush washer, or is this good reason to go ahead and get the OEM kit directly from Hyundai?

I suspect (but cannot guarantee) that they come with the correct washers. However, if you are willing to purchase several filters at one time to offset shipping charges, I would try this site for the Hyundai OEM filters (no sales tax):
http://www.partswebsite.com/newhyundaiparts/
This is Hilton Head Hyundai in South Carolina. There are some other dealers who sell parts online if you want one closer to where you live.

Also a good time to pick up some air and cabin filters to bundle with the same shipment.

No matter what mythology there is about certain brands of filters, it doesn't apply to the Hyundai Genesis filters since they are all the same (OEM and after-market). The volume of filters for the Genesis is not enough for after-market manufacturers to make their own versions. These days, in the age of out-sourcing and off-shoring, filter brands are more of distribution companies than anything else, and they don't make all the products they sell under their own brand name.

 

[zielritter]

I suspect (but cannot guarantee) that they come with the correct washers. However, if you are willing to purchase several filters at one time to offset shipping charges, I would try this site for the Hyundai OEM filters (no sales tax):
http://www.partswebsite.com/newhyundaiparts/
This is Hilton Head Hyundai in South Carolina. There are some other dealers who sell parts online if you want one closer to where you live.

Also a good time to pick up some air and cabin filters to bundle with the same shipment.

No matter what mythology there is about certain brands of filters, it doesn't apply to the Hyundai Genesis filters since they are all the same (OEM and after-market). The volume of filters for the Genesis is not enough for after-market manufacturers to make their own versions. These days, in the age of out-sourcing and off-shoring, filter brands are more of distribution companies than anything else, and they don't make all the products they sell under their own brand name.

Excellent. Thanks for the info and link. This will make things simple when I do my first change.

 

[Southern Boy]

I have use Wal-Mart Tech 2000 10w30 oil since day one in a 2004 Nissan Frontier with a 1.6L DOHC 4 cylinder engine without any problems.

My son drove a 1996 Nissan 200X DE that the engine never really cooled off and had 273K miles on it when he sold it. That car also had used Wal-Mart Tech 2000 10w30.

Both these vehicles had their oil and filter change at 3000 miles or 6 months whichever came first. They never burned any oil or had any varnish in the engines area visible (Cam shafts and cylinder top) from the oil fill opening.

I think the bottom line is the correct specified or higher grade of oil and frequent oil changes and filters.

There are codes on the bottom of the Tech 2000 containers that identify who the refiner of the oil was.

If the bottom of the container has WPP or WNE on the bottom then that indicates the oil was supplied by Warren Performance Products and is either Mobile or Exxon oil.

If there is a C with arrows at the four compass points than the oil was supplied by Citgo and is either Quaker State or Pennzoil.

The WPP or WNE is prevalent east of the Mississippi and The C is mostly found west of the Mississippi.

I run Synthetic oil (5W30) in my Genesis, but still stick to the 3000k / 6 month rule for oil and filter changes.

Since all oil is manufactured to API standards I feel what brand a person uses is more emotional than beneficial.

Maintenance and attention to detail is the most important issues when it comes to longevity of an engine or any other component of the vehicle.

 

[Philth]

Ok, so the after-market filters come with the needed o-rings? Do they also come with the crush washer, or is this good reason to go ahead and get the OEM kit directly from Hyundai?

Yes, for the 2012 3.8L oil filter part # is 26320-3C30A. (I pay $9 for it at my dealer)

Comes with one big o-ring for the filter housing, then 2 small ones. Throw the small ones away since those are for 2011 and earlier model years. Comes with a crush washer for the drain plug as well.

 

[12gage]

I am using Amsoil full synthetic 0w20 oil. No issues.

 

[Mark_888]

I am using Amsoil full synthetic 0w20 oil. No issues.

Looks like Amsoil now has three different 0W-20 "synthetics":

• SAE 0W-20 Signature Series 100% Synthetic Motor Oil ($10.55 quart)
• SAE 0W-20 XL Extended Life Synthetic Motor Oil ($7.65 quart)
• SAE 0W-20 OE Synthetic Motor Oil ($6.10 quart)

All prices per their website, however, discounts may be available, although I assume shipping charges may apply (not sure).
http://www.amsoil.com/a/synthetic-motor-oil-engine-oil

The Signature Series 100% Synthetic Motor Oil is a high quality product that contains large amounts of true PAO/Ester synthetic stock characteristic of a premium synthetics like Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Ultra, etc. The XL Extended Life Synthetic is maybe about as good as other Group III synthetics such as Castrol Syntec, Valvoline SynPower, or Pennzoil Platinum. Not sure about the Amsoil OE motor oil, which I had not seen previously last time I looked on their website a few years ago (maybe it is a synthetic blend).

Strange at it may seem, the premium Signature Series, although theoretically a very high quality synthetic, is not API Certified, partly because it does not meet API energy saving specs. Also, some non-API certified synthetics contain too much phosphorus in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. That is not to say that Amsoil Signature Series is anything but a very robust synthetic oil, but I would hate to get into an argument with Hyundai regarding a warranty repair issue if they found out.

Amsoil is not very clear about API certification for Signature Series on their website. They say that the oil can be used when API certification xyz, etc is required, but they don't explicitly say that the oil is API certified and don't display the API certification symbol on the oil container for the Signature Series.

If Hyundai allowed 15,000 mile oil change intervals to maintain their warranty, and if I was so inclined to only change my oil only that often, Amsoil Signature Series might be a good choice, but since that is not the case, I don't see the point. Also, I would not want to take even a 2% hit on MPG for no good reason.

From Wikipedia:
AMSOIL markets their products through a Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) network of dealers who sell to defined customer types known as wholesale customers, retail accounts and commercial accounts. AMSOIL also wholly owns and manages an MLM subsidiary called ALTRUM, which markets nutritional supplements.

 

[krazyfiend]

Thanks for the info on Amsoil -- I can totally see the MLM background based upon particular well known mod's and members on established forums (acurazine, benzworld, etc) really pimping the crap out of it & building up the legend/lore amongst members who do the preaching from there on. Combined with targeted racing advertising/sponsorships... it all makes sense now. I probably missed the topic of Amsoil being discussed many times over on BITOG and could have informed myself at one time or another.


I'll keep cheaping out for Mobil 1 in that case-- much appreciated for the revealing 411

 

[martyk]

Looks like most people prefer Mobil 1, 5W-20. The question is which Mobil 1 should I use?

Mobil 1, Mobil 1 High Mileage, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Enonomy, or Mobil 1 Extended Performance?

Marty

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[ShadowScoobySTi]

Looks like most people prefer Mobil 1, 5W-20. The question is which Mobil 1 should I use?

Mobil 1, Mobil 1 High Mileage, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Enonomy, or Mobil 1 Extended Performance?

Marty

Its a matter of personal preference and common sense. If you are an every 3-5k mile oil change guy, then the normal mobil 1, if you are a longer milage between changes, mobil 1 extended peformance, are you concerned on fuel economy? Well, you get my point.

 

[Mark_888]

Looks like most people prefer Mobil 1, 5W-20. The question is which Mobil 1 should I use?

Mobil 1, Mobil 1 High Mileage, Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Enonomy, or Mobil 1 Extended Performance?

Marty

Definitely not any High Mileage oil. Absolutely not. This is for older cars with mega-miles that have engine wear problems. Generally, the viscosity of this oil way too high for any newer, and well-maintained engine, and contain additives that are not good for an engine in proper working condition.

Any of the others is fine, but I prefer Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy (since I live a warmer climate, I use 0W-30). Since you must change your oil at least every 7500 miles to maintain the warranty, there is not much benefit of Mobil 1 Extended Performance which has additives that allow for longer change intervals, but it is OK to use if really want to.

As to 0W-20 vs 0W-30 (or 5W-30), If you have a GDI engine (2012+) then you want to look at the owners manual, and maybe consider the higher viscosity. But do not use 10W-30 or 10W-40. Also, do not use a European Formula oil such as Castrol Syntec 0W-30 European Formula.

 

[Mark_888]

Also, if you have over 65k to 100k miles, you can go with the high milage one.

I would not recommend any high mileage oil on a Hyndai Genesis regardless of the number miles driven, unless there is fairly noticeable engine wear (possibly evidenced by significant oil consumption). If someone has been using a decent synthetic oil since 5.000 miles (or even since 20,000) and changes the oil regularly, it is very unlikely that the engine will have experienced serious engine wear that warrants a high mileage oil.

 

[martyk]

Looks like I will go with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy,5w-20.

Thanks ever one for the info.

Regards,
Marty

 

[homeofstone]

Its a matter of personal preference and common sense. If you are an every 3-5k mile oil change guy, then the normal mobil 1, if you are a longer milage between changes, mobil 1 extended peformance, are you concerned on fuel economy? Well, you get my point. Also, if you have over 65k to 100k miles, you can go with the high milage one.

I guess high mileage does not mean the same thing for everyone. I think of high mileage as over 250,000 miles since I keep vehicles to about then. BTW I have never had an engine failure or one that burned oil and smoked. TLC goes a long way.

 

[ShadowScoobySTi]

Okay, Okay! no High Mileage... check.

do NOT, under any circumstances use... HIGH MILEAGE! PLEASE!

I got it fellas. Thanks.

lol

 

[Southern Boy]

I use Mobil 1 synthetic, but here is a Q and A from Blackstone labs:

Quote:
What's the best oil to use? Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.


Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right? Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.

My point exactly in my previous post on this thread.

Oil is oil and if it meets the API (American Petroleum Institute) standards and the recommendations of the vehicle manufacture then you’re good to go. I prefer the SAE standards over the API because they are tighter, but it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a SAE standard on an oil container.
The same goes for synthetic oil. There may be additives added by oil refiners, but the bottom line is frequency of change the oil, filters and maintenance of the vehicle.

When running any oil under any conditions for 7500 miles it is black as coal when drained. This is caused by the impurities in the fuel (carbon, acids formed in a cold engine and dirt) that is introduced to the engine lubrication system.

If the fuel for any given engine is natural gas or LP gas the oil will look just about the same as when it is first put into the engine when drained because they contain less carbon and burn cleaner.

If you really want to use a superior lubricant, purchase lubricants that are approved for aircraft. Those listed specifications are very tight, no BS or magic elixirs that don’t do exactly what the refiner claims.

 

[Mark_888]

Here is a short video from MotorWeek's Pat Goss regarding high mileage oil:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HmEqFdeIY"]Does Your Car Need High Mileage Oilat Goss Answers Fan Question - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mark_888]

Some manufacturers specify that synthetic oil is required to maintain the new car warranty. Most of these have tended to be high performance or luxury brands, since buyers of these types of cars are typically not adverse to the extra expense of a synthetic oil change.

However, specification of synthetic oil is spreading down toward the more common brands, as requirements for extracting the best possible MPG out of engines has increased, and will increase in the near future (per CAFE regulations). Synthetic oil provides a slight MPG advantage over conventional oils, but synthetics are also often used to minimize problems with turbos, GDI, and higher revving but smaller engines, and for longer change intervals, etc. There is a risk of doing this, since competitors often use this in selling situations to highlight the lower cost of maintenance for their vehicles compared to those cars which specify synthetic oil. So requiring synthetic oil is not something a manufacturer would do without some good reason.

One non-luxury/non-performance brand that has moved to synthetics is Toyota. Here is a list of Toyota vehicles that specify synthetic motor oil in order to maintain the manufacturer's warranty:
http://www.actontoyota.com/toyota-models-requiring-synthetic-oil.htm

 

[Mark_888]

Oil is oil and if it meets the API (American Petroleum Institute) standards and the recommendations of the vehicle manufacture then you’re good to go. I prefer the SAE standards over the API because they are tighter, but it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a SAE standard on an oil container. The same goes for synthetic oil. There may be additives added by oil refiners, but the bottom line is frequency of change the oil, filters and maintenance of the vehicle.

Some oils meet the specifications and some exceed the specifications. Also, oil specifications and requirements change over time. What is now called conventional oil usually contains at least small quantities of Group III synthetics (hydrocraked) as a additive (which is how they get the oils to perform better for each successive standard).

Here is list of different ILSAC and API specifications that have changed over time:

ILSAC STANDARD FOR PASSENGER CAR ENGINE OILS

• GF-5 CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system compatibility, seal compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
• GF-4 OBSOLETE Valid until September 30, 2011. Use GF-5 where GF-4 is recommended.
• GF-3 OBSOLETE Use GF-5 where GF-3 is recommended.
• GF-2 OBSOLETE Use GF-5 where GF-2 is recommended.
• GF-1 OBSOLETE Use GF-5 where GF-1 is recommended.

API CLASSIFICATION FOR GASOLINE ENGINES

• SN CURRENT Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
• SM CURRENT For 2010 and older automotive engines.
• SL CURRENT For 2004 and older automotive engines.
• SJ CURRENT For 2001 and older automotive engines.
• SH OBSOLETE
• SG OBSOLETE
• SF OBSOLETE
• SE OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1979.
• SD OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1971. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.
• SC OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1967. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.
• SB OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1951. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.
• SA OBSOLETE CAUTION: Contains no additives. Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automotive engines built after 1930. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

Whether or not one will benefit from an oil that exceeds specifications (such as synthetic oil) may be debatable. For example, if one only keeps a vehicle for 3 years and performs frequent oil changes, they may not see much benefit to themselves (other than a slight MPG improvement). But I am not sure we can therefore simply conclude that oil is oil.

If you really want to use a superior lubricant, purchase lubricants that are approved for aircraft. Those listed specifications are very tight, no BS or magic elixirs that don’t do exactly what the refiner claims.

That is an interesting comment, since synthetic oil was invented specifically for use in aircraft engines during WWII, and is universally specified for aircraft engines today.