Oil Change, 15,000 miles / 2 Years

[Mark_888]

Also, the OP has LOW mileage...... the Pennzoil Ultra is for "higher" mileage cars if you know how to read a chart........

I am not sure where you got that information, but it is completely false.

In the USA, synthetic oil is allowed to contain three ingredients in their base stock and still be called synthetic:

• Group III - Hydrocracked (highly refined) Mineral oil
• Group IV - PAO
• Group V - Esters

In most EU countries (and in the USA until the about 15 years ago) only oil made from Group IV or V base true synthetic base stocks is allowed to be called synthetic. Now in the USA Group III hydrocracked mineral oil is allowed to use the synthetic designation.

Pennzoil Platinum is a 100% (except for additive package) Group III synthetic, along with Castrol Syntec (USA version), and many other synthetics sold in the US.

Mobil 1, Pennzoil Ultra, Castrol Edge, and others are a blend of Group III and true synthetics (Group IV and/or V) in the USA. These same companies sell synthetic oil in the EU which are 100% Group IV and/or V base stocks if they are called synthetic (a legal requirement in the EU). Not sure if Pennzoil brand is actually sold in the EU, but their parent company Royal Dutch Shell sells Shell products under the Shell name there.

So Pennzoil Ultra is just a better quality blend of synthetic base stocks than their Platinum oil, and there is no reason why Ultra should not be used on a brand new low mileage engine. Some companies do specifically market high-mileage oils (both conventional, synthetic blend, or synthetic) that have certain additives in them to help to deal with excess engine wear or other similar problems (including oil consumption), but regular Pennzoil Ultra is not such an oil. However, if one did have a high mileage engine with oil consumption problems, then Ultra (especially a high viscosity version) might be better than Platinum for such situations, even though it is not restricted for use to high mileage engines.

 

[Atlgen]

Mark_888:

After reading on the Mobil1 website it appears that Mobil1is composed of only synthetic base stocks.

I'll admit they are not real clear. Would you please give me a source where I can get more info. Thanks.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

You're comparing potatoes and tennis shoes....... a 5.0 is NOT the same as the 4.6L.... that's all the explanation needed. gawd..... some peeps just don't have a life except to go on forums and hate on peeps trying to help out.

Additionally, the OP was asking about a Hyundai Geneis..... NOT a stinkin' money pit Benz...... duh!

Also, the OP has LOW mileage...... the Pennzoil Ultra is for "higher" mileage cars if you know how to read a chart........ again, peeps just make out of stuff what they want to in order to justify their existence on a forum that should be more about helping peeps instead of hating on others comments who are trying to do what the forum is designed. But, you guys are everywhere.... on every forum...... no exceptions here.

explanations my bug ole butt!!! bbbaaawwwwaaaaahhhhhhaaaaa

Sorry I hurt your feelings. There's no substitute for facts and the ability to interpret them. How about: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013P...sallfinal.html I think this has been posted by Homeofstone before, and as I recall, you couldn't figure out what all that information meant.

Back to what's real: I believe much of the experience I have had with Ultra is based on the NOACK Volatility test (evaporation) for which a lower number is better. Pennzoil Ultra has the lowest NOACK test result of all the oils tested, and significantly lower than many others. This may be why it is the only brand of oil recommended by Ferrari. For my 5.0 (yes, it is not 4.6) it has delivered outstanding results and no oil burning.

So I'll try to quit hurting your feelings (by challenging you), and why don't you quit acting up.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark_888:

After reading on the Mobil1 website it appears that Mobil1is composed of only synthetic base stocks.

I'll admit they are not real clear. Would you please give me a source where I can get more info. Thanks.

In the USA, Group III hydrocracked mineral oil is allowed to be called a synthetic base stock. I thought I made that clear above. It wasn't always this way. Castrol was the first to do this, and Mobil sued them in court for false advertising. Castrol won the lawsuit, and in the USA for the about the last 15 years, hydrocracked mineral oil (Group III base stock) can now be called synthetic. Mobil gave up arguing about it, and had to include "some" Group III synthetic in their USA formulations in order to be competitive in pricing.

However, Mobil 1 is not 100% Group III Hydrocracked Mineral Oil like Castrol Syntec and Pennzoil Platinum sold in the USA. The percentage of Group III in Mobil 1 varies depending on the oil (Mobil 1 has many variations and viscosities). The way I was able to find this out is by looking at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Mobil 1 products sold in Japan. Japan is the only country I know that requires mineral oil percentage (including Group III Hydrocracked) to be disclosed in the MSDS that must be filled with the government.

As previously noted, any motor oil sold as "synthetic" in most parts of the EU (including Mobil 1, Castrol, Shell, etc) must by their local laws be 100% Group IV or V synthetics (not including additive packages). Some Mobil 1 oils sold in the USA as European Formula oil (such as Mobil 1 0W-40 designed for German cars) are also all Group IV and V synthetic.

Hydrocracked Mineral Oil (Group III synthetics) has gotten better over the years and refiners have learned how to improve the process to make it even more like a Group IV or V synthetic, although there will always be some differences. Some people actually claim that Group III synthetics have certain advantages over Group IV and V, and it is interesting to note that I don't know of any oil that is 100% Group IV/V that meets API approval as a "Energy Conserving" motor oil. All of the API approved premium oils in the USA that I know about (Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Ultra) have at least some Group IV and/or V components (the rest being Group III and additive package).

 

[Mark_888]

I believe much of the experience I have had with Ultra is based on the NOACK Volatility test (evaporation) for which a lower number is better. Pennzoil Ultra has the lowest NOACK test result of all the oils tested, and significantly lower than many others. This may be why it is the only brand of oil recommended by Ferrari. For my 5.0 (yes, it is not 4.6) it has delivered outstanding results and no oil burning.

I do not doubt the quality of Pennzoil Ultra; however, I don't understand the big deal about the NOACK Volatility test. I have used Mobil 1 about 95% of the time in the last three cars I have owned, and have not ever had to add one drop of oil in-between oil changes (5K-7K mile change interval). I think there are many other important things about Pennzoil Ultra that make it a very good product.

 

[Atlgen]

In the USA, Group III hydrocracked mineral oil is allowed to be called a synthetic base stock. I thought I made that clear above. It wasn't always this way. Castrol was the first to do this, and Mobil sued them in court for false advertising. Castrol won the lawsuit, and in the USA for the about the last 15 years, hydrocracked mineral oil (Group III base stock) can now be called synthetic. Mobil gave up arguing about it, and had to include "some" Group III synthetic in their USA formulations in order to be competitive in pricing.

However, Mobil 1 is not 100% Group III Hydrocracked Mineral Oil like Castrol Syntec and Pennzoil Platinum sold in the USA. The percentage of Group III in Mobil 1 varies depending on the oil (Mobil 1 has many variations and viscosities). The way I was able to find this out is by looking at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Mobil 1 products sold in Japan. Japan is the only country I know that requires mineral oil percentage (including Group III Hydrocracked) to be disclosed in the MSDS that must be filled with the government.

As previously noted, any motor oil sold as "synthetic" in most parts of the EU (including Mobil 1, Castrol, Shell, etc) must by their local laws be 100% Group IV or V synthetics (not including additive packages). Some Mobil 1 oils sold in the USA as European Formula oil (such as Mobil 1 0W-40 designed for German cars) are also all Group IV and V synthetic.

Hydrocracked Mineral Oil (Group III synthetics) has gotten better over the years and refiners have learned how to improve the process to make it even more like a Group IV or V synthetic, although there will always be some differences. Some people actually claim that Group III synthetics have certain advantages over Group IV and V, and it is interesting to note that I don't know of any oil that is 100% Group IV/V that meets API approval as a "Energy Conserving" motor oil. All of the API approved premium oils in the USA that I know about (Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Ultra) have at least some Group IV and/or V components (the rest being Group III and additive package).

Thanks so much for the info and source. Have a great day.

 

[Philth]

Any idea what the M1 EP oils are? Group III still?

 

[martyk]

That is an excellent oil, and a good choice for the Genesis. I have used it for most of the oil changes on my 2009 V6 Genesis.

Should I change to Mobil 1, synthetic 5W-30 or 5W-20 from 0W-30?

Marty

 

[Mark_888]

Should I change to Mobil 1, synthetic 5W-30 or 5W-20 from 0W-30?

Marty

I would highly recommend Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy. If you are experiencing high oil consumption on a Tau 5.0 with this oil, then maybe try something else (but not the fault of the oil).

 

[Mark_888]

Any idea what the M1 EP oils are? Group III still?

As far as I can tell, all Mobil 1 oils sold in the USA (except the European Formula oils like 0W-40) contain some Group III components (20-65%) and the rest are Group IV or V. This is based on looking at the ExxonMobil MSDS for Japan (which is only country that I know of that requires disclosure of mineral oil %, including Group III. in the MSDS).

I don't know this for sure (since a Mobil 1 EP MSDS for Japan is not available on the ExxonMobil website, probably because it is not be sold in Japan), but I suspect that Mobil 1 EP has less Group III (and more Group IV and V) base stock than regular Mobil 1 5W-30 or 5W-20. But not 100% Group IV or V.

There are some very good synthetics like Pennzoil Platinum, Castrol Syntec, etc are 100% Group III base stock (not including additive packages). In the USA, the next level up in quality of base stock components are Mobil 1, Pennzoil Ultra, and Castrol Edge, which I believe all have at least some Group IV and V components.

If you are looking for a synthetic with 100% Group IV or V base stock synthetic (zero Group III), keep in mind that there are very few available, and I don't know of any that are API certified to meet Hyundai Specs (same for most all American and Japanese cars). That includes European Formula oils sold by Mobil I, Castrol, etc (these are not API certified to meet Hyundai specs). Many German cars sold in the USA require European Formula oils.

I would not assume that a synthetic with 100% Group IV and V components (zero Group III) is necessarily the best oil for the Genesis (or most other American or Asian cars) even if you could find it. If I had a Tau 5.0 with excess oil consumption and Hyundai did not fix it, I might try Mobil 1 0W-40, but only if others did not work in reducing oil consumption.

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[martyk]

I would highly recommend Mobil 1 0W-30 Advanced Fuel Economy. If you are experiencing high oil consumption on a Tau 5.0 with this oil, then maybe try something else (but not the fault of the oil).

I have 4.6 V8, 2012.

Marty

 

[Mark_888]

I have 4.6 V8, 2012.

Marty

Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE should work fine for the Tau 4.6.

 

[shagnat]

I have 4.6 V8, 2012.

Marty

There are a ton of good oils out there. One oil may be better at one aspect while another oil will be more beneficial at another aspect.

Just find a oil you like and in your price range and go with it. I doubt there are any BAD oils (synthetic) out there today. Opinions will vary greatly, it's the "Chevy/Ford" debate.

Don't stress over it. Do you routine maintenance and you'll be good to go. (oil filter is equally as important, meaning no FRAM filters) lol

 

[Mark_888]

There are a ton of good oils out there. One oil may be better at one aspect while another oil will be more beneficial at another aspect.

Just find a oil you like and in your price range and go with it. I doubt there are any BAD oils (synthetic) out there today. Opinions will vary greatly, it's the "Chevy/Ford" debate.

Don't stress over it. Do you routine maintenance and you'll be good to go. (oil filter is equally as important, meaning no FRAM filters) lol

Fortunately, one can purchase name brand synthetic oil at Walmart in 5-quart jugs for a very reasonable price (about $24). This is actually a good idea even if your dealer does the oil change (if they will use customer supplied oil).

Fram makes 4 different models of filters in the popular sizes (metal screw-on types). The standard Fram Extra Guard is not very good (as you mentioned), but the premium one (Ultra Synthetic) is very good. However, in the case of the Hyundai Genesis filter cartridge, the there is only one Fram filter and it is not made by Fram. The original 2009-2011 filter sold under the Fram brand name was identical to the Hyundai OEM one (both made by Mann-Hummel). Not sure about the newer ones for 2012+ (Hyundai OEM is made by Mahle), but wherever Fram gets them I would bet a lot of money that they are not made by Fram.

Here is a pic of the Fram filter for 2009-2011 Hyundai Genesis as shown on the Fram website. It is absolutely identical to the Hyundai OEM filter for 2009-2011:
http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=CH10515

 

[shagnat]

Fortunately, one can purchase name brand synthetic oil at Walmart in 5-quart jugs for a very reasonable price (about $24). This is actually a good idea even if your dealer does the oil change (if they will use customer supplied oil).

Fram makes 4 different models of filters in the popular sizes (metal screw-on types). The standard Fram Extra Guard is not very good (as you mentioned), but the premium one (Ultra Synthetic) is very good. However, in the case of the Hyundai Genesis filter cartridge, the there is only one Fram filter and it is not made by Fram. The original 2009-2011 filter sold under the Fram brand name was identical to the Hyundai OEM one (both made by Mann-Hummel). Not sure about the newer ones for 2012+ (Hyundai OEM is made by Mahle), but wherever Fram gets them I would bet a lot of money that they are not made by Fram.

Here is a pic of the Fram filter for 2009-2011 Hyundai Genesis as shown on the Fram website. It is absolutely identical to the Hyundai OEM filter for 2009-2011:
http://www.framcatalog.com/PartDetailWindow.aspx?b=F&pn=CH10515

I have too many decision to make regarding this car to worry about which Fram filter (might) be good. I just avoid Fram altogether. End of story.

5 gallon jugs at Wally World may be fine for the v6, the 4.6L v8 needs 6.7x quarts. So, that would mean buying two five gallon jugs and holding over the other 3+ quarts for the next oil change........ instead I order my oil from Amazon, use their "Prime" option additionally have it set up to deliver my oil every 8 months and get an additional discount. These are ordered in 6 quart containers (additionally I use 1 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil) and this way I have no left-overs worth worrying about.

 

[Mark_888]

I have too many decision to make regarding this car to worry about which Fram filter (might) be good. I just avoid Fram altogether. End of story.

Fram only sells one filter for the Genesis, and it is not made by them. It is not like any of their other filters. I personally use the Hyundai OEM filter, which at least for 2009-2011 is identical to the Fram (both made by Mann-Hummel).

5 gallon jugs at Wally World may be fine for the v6, the 4.6L v8 needs 6.7x quarts. So, that would mean buying two five gallon jugs and holding over the other 3+ quarts for the next oil change........ instead I order my oil from Amazon, use their "Prime" option additionally have it set up to deliver my oil every 8 months and get an additional discount. These are ordered in 6 quart containers (additionally I use 1 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil) and this way I have no left-overs worth worrying about.

If you ever have a warranty claim, I would not mention the Marvel Mystery Oil since it will most likely void your warranty (since I a fairly sure it is not API certified to meet Hyundai specifications for motor oil). Personally, I cannot even fathom adding exact same product to my engine crank case in lieu of a quart of oil, that most people add to their gas tank. I guess it might have some benefits for an older engine that has not been maintained well and has a lot of deposits, but I doubt it can have any benefit for an engine running on a high quality synthetic with reasonable change intervals.

 

[Philth]

You leave an entire quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in your engine during your normal OCI? Oh no...please don't do that.

 

[427435]

The jugs of Mobil 1 are NOT 5 gallon--------------they are (maybe) 5 quart. In our area, I have only seen Mobil 1 in 1 gallon (4 quart) jugs. In either case, buy 2 and what you don't use, save for the next change. No big deal. Or buy one jug and enough 1 qt. containers to do the rest.

Or go to a place like Fleet Farm and buy cartons with 6 qt. containers.

 

[shagnat]

Fram only sells one filter for the Genesis, and it is not made by them. It is not like any of their other filters. I personally use the Hyundai OEM filter, which at least for 2009-2011 is identical to the Fram (both made by Mann-Hummel).


If you ever have a warranty claim, I would not mention the Marvel Mystery Oil since it will most likely void your warranty (since I a fairly sure it is not API certified to meet Hyundai specifications for motor oil). Personally, I cannot even fathom adding exact same product to my engine crank case in lieu of a quart of oil, that most people add to their gas tank. I guess it might have some benefits for an older engine that has not been maintained well and has a lot of deposits, but I doubt it can have any benefit for an engine running on a high quality synthetic with reasonable change intervals.

I have the same concern as you regarding pouring the same thing in a crankcase as one would the gas tank........ I misspoke when I said I use the Marvel Mystery Oil in with the oil......... those are my plans, but, is subject to change with more research. From what I've seen about the stuff is it's all good, and none bad, but, that's with limited research, certainly not completed.

Just not messing with Fram....... no telling when things may change and there are other and better choices than Fram.

 

[Mark_888]

I have the same concern as you regarding pouring the same thing in a crankcase as one would the gas tank........ I misspoke when I said I use the Marvel Mystery Oil in with the oil......... those are my plans, but, is subject to change with more research. From what I've seen about the stuff is it's all good, and none bad, but, that's with limited research, certainly not completed.

Just not messing with Fram....... no telling when things may change and there are other and better choices than Fram.

If I had a high mileage engine with problems (sticky valves, excess deposits, etc), I "might" consider putting Marvel in my crankcase for a short time (or other similar product). More than likely I would just use a "high mileage" synthetic that has similar additives built-in. But if you have a relatively new engine, using a quality synthetic will keep it very clean inside, so it is very unlikely you will need such additives any time soon or maybe never at all.