What type of oil is everyone using?

[Mark_888]

I once ran Mobil synthetic in a sport motorcycle and all it did was get me burned out valves, eventually.

Mobil 1 has a couple of different motor oils that are specifically designed for motorcycles. Here are some of the differences between these and regular Mobil 1 for passenger cars (from the Mobil 1 website):

• In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation.
• For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers.
• Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum.
• Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of anti-wear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).

In addition to the overall benefits listed above – specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption – Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year

 

[genesiskevlar]

WOW. I did not expect to come and see this thread blow up like this. Thanks everyone for the input. Def helped out a lot.

Ya, my dealer charged over $100 for it, which I thought was odd since Ive had synthetic in all my muscle cars before. Ill bring it to their attention next time and see if they want my biz. If not, Ill just look elsewhere. There is a local place we take my wifes car to and they are pretty honest and have never overcharged in the 6yrs we have been going to them.

I drive about 75 miles a day M-F and 5-10 total on the weekends. I usually change my oil around 5-6k miles, depending on how hard I drive. But since getting the Genny, I dont drive very hard.

Thanks again everyone for this input. Def good ammo to have next time I go in for a check up.

 

[Mark_888]

WOW. I did not expect to come and see this thread blow up like this. Thanks everyone for the input. Def helped out a lot.

Ya, my dealer charged over $100 for it, which I thought was odd since Ive had synthetic in all my muscle cars before. Ill bring it to their attention next time and see if they want my biz. If not, Ill just look elsewhere. There is a local place we take my wifes car to and they are pretty honest and have never overcharged in the 6yrs we have been going to them.

I drive about 75 miles a day M-F and 5-10 total on the weekends. I usually change my oil around 5-6k miles, depending on how hard I drive. But since getting the Genny, I dont drive very hard.

Thanks again everyone for this input. Def good ammo to have next time I go in for a check up.

One option is to buy the motor oil at Walmart and bring it with you to the dealer. The only problem is that there no guarantee they will use the oil you provide (which happened to me the one and only time I let the dealer change my oil).

 

[PaFromFL]

I use whatever full synthetic is on sale at the time. So far I've only changed oil once at 5600 miles and used Quaker State Ultimate Durability Full Synthetic 5W30 ($21.97 for 5 quarts at Walmart).

 

[RSPEC429]

If you're not running to 10,000 miles and are just changing the oil every 5,000-7,500 miles, don't waste money on the Extended Performance oils.

If you do a lot of short drives where the engine likely does not warm up the oil adequately, I wouldn't take it much past 5,000 miles.

 

[Mark_888]

If you're not running to 10,000 miles and are just changing the oil every 5,000-7,500 miles, don't waste money on the Extended Performance oils.

If you do a lot of short drives where the engine likely does not warm up the oil adequately, I wouldn't take it much past 5,000 miles.

What "money" are you talking about?

Mobil 1 5W-20 is $23.88 USD for a 5-quart jug. Mobil 1 Extended Performance is $26.68. That is a $2.80 difference for a 5-quart jug. My Genesis uses 5.5 quarts of oil, so I guess it is really a $3.08 difference.

The main reason why Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil lasts longer is that the EP version has a higher percentage of Group IV/V polymers/esters (compared to Group III hydrocracked mineral oil) than most other Mobil 1 products, and I believe that this does have other benefits besides longevity of the oil. One reason that Exxon Mobil does not explain this is that they don't like to discuss the fact that there are any Group III components in any Mobil 1 products (because at one time Mobil 1 was 100% Group IV/V).

 

[RSPEC429]

What "money" are you talking about?

Mobil 1 5W-20 is $23.88 USD for a 5-quart jug. Mobil 1 Extended Performance is $26.68. That is a $2.80 difference for a 5-quart jug. My Genesis uses 5.5 quarts of oil, so I guess it is really a $3.08 difference.

The main reason why Mobil 1 Extended Performance oil lasts longer is that the EP version has a higher percentage of Group IV/V polymers/esters (compared to Group III hydrocracked mineral oil) than most other Mobil 1 products, and I believe that this does have other benefits besides longevity of the oil. One reason that Exxon Mobil does not explain this is that they don't like to discuss the fact that there are any Group III components in any Mobil 1 products (because at one time Mobil 1 was 100% Group IV/V).

Why not use Redline oil which is a true Group V synthetic, if money is not a factor for you?...Honest question.

Availability?

 

[Aquineas]

If you're not running to 10,000 miles and are just changing the oil every 5,000-7,500 miles, don't waste money on the Extended Performance oils.

If you do a lot of short drives where the engine likely does not warm up the oil adequately, I wouldn't take it much past 5,000 miles.

There is almost no chance in a Texas summer of engine oil not warming up correctly . By the time I get out of my subdivision, my engine is fully warm (the nighttime lows in Texas will reach a point where they won't drop below the high 70s).

As for extended performance, I don't mind the extra $5 just in case I don't get there within my preferred 5K miles. If I were leasing my car I wouldn't bother.

 

[RSPEC429]

There is absolutely no chance in a Texas summer of engine oil not warming up correctly . By the time I get out of my subdivision, my engine is fully warm.

I live in Texas too...where do you live where ambient temps are above 200 degrees?

If you take a lot of short trips, you are vulnerable to having a build up of water vapor, which is burnt off when the oil reaches full operating temps...the oil will not be at temperature by driving to the end of a subdivision.

Here are some good reads for you:
http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1310-engine-oil-temperature/

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog...gine-alive-the-importance-of-oil-temperature/

 

[RSPEC429]

Mark_888, do you have any links to something that shows that M1 EP does indeed have a higher percentage of GroupIV or V basestocks?

From my research, all I have been able to find is that M1 uses approximately 10% Group IV or V basestocks. Admittedly, I did not search for long.

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[Aquineas]

I live in Texas too...where do you live where ambient temps are above 200 degrees?

If you take a lot of short trips, you are vulnerable to having a build up of water vapor, which is burnt off when the oil reaches full operating temps...the oil will not be at temperature by driving to the end of a subdivision.

It's 1.5 miles from my front door to the end of my subdivision. Maybe I can take a picture of my temperature guage to prove it to; would you believe me then?

As for the short trips, one of the reason I have 10K miles on a car I bought in February is that pretty much everywhere you want to go is at least a half hour drive.

And your 200 degree strawman, really? Is that how you roll?

 

[RSPEC429]

I've done a bit more reading...all I am finding is that M1 EP has a different additive package that can handle the 15,000 mile oil change interval.

I'm not finding anything conclusive however, so if you can find something credible, I would love to see it.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark_888, do you have any links to something that shows that M1 EP does indeed have a higher percentage of GroupIV or V basestocks?

From my research, all I have been able to find is that M1 uses approximately 10% Group IV or V basestocks. Admittedly, I did not search for long.

Based on the MSDS docs for Japan (where they are required to disclose the amount of mineral oil, which technically includes Group III), it appears that most Mobil 1 oils contain about 35-50% Group IV-V components (since they contain about 50-65% mineral oil). It does vary by the type and viscosity of the oil, even though they are all Mobil 1. You can find the MSDS docs on the Exxon Mobil website. I have not looked at them in a couple of years, so they may have changed, especially since there continue to be quality improvements in Group III synthetics (severely hydrocracked mineral oil).

They did not have a Japanese MSDS for Mobil 1 EP oils (last time I looked), but I have read on the Mobil 1 website where they pretty much say that EP contains more polymers/esters than regular Mobil 1 (but don't have a link for that).

However, regular Mobil1 0W-40 European Formula contains the most Group IV/V components of all the Mobil 1 oils from what I could determine, since they don't allow Group III to be sold as synthetic in much of Europe. But don't use a European Formula oil in an Asian or American car, since it doesn't met specs for our engines (in particular it has less zinc and phosphorus to meet European emission standards). Also, 0W-40 is way too high a viscosity for our engines.

 

[RSPEC429]

When XOM switched to their new Visom oil formulation, there has been some indication that the M1 EP was no longer as reliant on Group IV-V base stocks as it once was.

Perhpas you could email or call XOM technical support...they may or may not confirm anything as the specific percentage breakdown of basestocks used in oils is usually proprietary information that the oil companies do not readily publish.

With that said, I change my oil every 5,000 miles. Even if M1 EP does indeed use Group IV-V basestocks, at that OCI, it will be a waste. Any generic synthetic, and likely even high quality conventional oils, will be more than adequate.

If you want a true GroupV and money is not an issue, go get yourself some Redline oil. I would use it, but it is expensive, not readily available, and it would be overkill for how I use my vehicles.

 

[Mark_888]

I just checked the MSDS for Japan and here is some sample info:

• Mobil 1 0W-30 - Mineral Oil 30-40% weight (average of 35%, so this is the percent of Group III, and rest is Group IV/V or additives).
• Mobil 1 5W-30 - Mineral Oil 60-70% weight (average of 65%, so this is the percent of Group III, and rest is Group IV/V or additives).

So it appears that the Mobil 1 0W oils have a higher percentage of Group IV/V, which is not surprising since it takes very high quality base stock to achieve that range.

 

[RSPEC429]

It's 1.5 miles from my front door to the end of my subdivision. Maybe I can take a picture of my temperature guage to prove it to; would you believe me then?

As for the short trips, one of the reason I have 10K miles on a car I bought in February is that pretty much everywhere you want to go is at least a half hour drive.

And your 200 degree strawman, really? Is that how you roll?

Read the articles that I linked to on my post. Your temperature gauge should not be relied on to determine oil temperature. Oil takes longer to warm up than coolant does.

You're doing long drives however, so your engine oil is warming up nicely

 

[Mark_888]

When XOM switched to their new Visom oil formulation, there has been some indication that the M1 EP was no longer as reliant on Group IV-V base stocks as it once was.

Perhpas you could email or call XOM technical support...they may or may not confirm anything as the specific percentage breakdown of basestocks used in oils is usually proprietary information that the oil companies do not readily publish.

With that said, I change my oil every 5,000 miles. Even if M1 EP does indeed use Group IV-V basestocks, at that OCI, it will be a waste. Any generic synthetic, and likely even high quality conventional oils, will be more than adequate.

If you want a true GroupV and money is not an issue, go get yourself some Redline oil. I would use it, but it is expensive, not readily available, and it would be overkill for how I use my vehicles.

1. As I showed above, Mobil 1 oil has at least some non-Group III base stock (which means it has some Group IV/V).
2. I would bet every dime I have that Redline (or Royal Purple) is not 100% Group IV/V. Maybe it was years ago (but so was Mobil 1 years ago before the complaint against Castrol filed with the FTC).
3. Bob's the Oil Guy is a cesspool of false rumors and innuendo, so even though some information on there "may" be correct, there is no way to determine which information that is.
4. At Walmart, Mobil 1 doesn't seem to cost any more than synthetics that are 100% Group III, or at least a very small amount more. Mobil 1 EP is only slightly more than regular Mobil 1. These differences are not even worth arguing about.

 

[RSPEC429]

1. As I showed above, Mobil 1 oil has at least some non-Group III base stock (which means it has some Group IV/V).
2. I would bet every dime I have that Redline (or Royal Purple) is not 100% Group IV/V. Maybe it was years ago (but so was Mobil 1 years ago before the complaint against Castrol filed with the FTC).
3. Bob's the Oil Guy is a cesspool of false rumors and innuendo, so even though some information on there "may" be correct, there is no way to determine which information that is.
4. At Walmart, Mobil 1 doesn't seem to cost any more than synthetics that are 100% Group III, or at least a very small amount more. Mobil 1 EP is only slightly more than regular Mobil 1. These differences are not even worth arguing about.

1 & 4: You have yet to show anything current that shows EP is Group IV-V basestock based. When XOM switched to their Visom formulation, if EP used a superior basestock once, as you said, that is likely no longer the case.

2: Go ahead and bet your dimes. Redline is known for their ester based oils. As is Motul. As far as Royal Purple...I don't know about their oils, nor do I care about their oils.

3: I frequent BITOG. It's not difficult to sift through the good information and the bad. It's not hard for me at least. It's regretful that you have a difficult time because there is a lot of good information provided there...much better than what is found here.

The bottomline is that as long as an oil meets specs, use whatever you think feels best. These motors aren't especially picky.

Mark, you seem fairly set in your ways, so I am not going to argue with you. If spending a few extra bucks on something that you are note even entirely sure about makes you all warm and fuzzy feeling inside, by all means, keep doing that.

As for me, and anyone else that isn't as easily convinced, use whatever is on sale and is readily available. Your engine won't care. If the engine burns oil or just doesn't "feel" right to you on a certain oil, don't use it again and try something else.

 

[Top Gear]

Mark, instead of pasting all these specious factoids from Mobil, tell us why any given engine is somehow better off by running the same oil and a filter for 10k or 15k miles. Tell us how the bearings and journals and rings and guides all somehow work better without fresh oil, particularly for a family truckster and not a race car. That's what will support your side of the argument. Good luck.

 

[Mark_888]

1 & 4: You have yet to show anything current that shows EP is Group IV-V basestock based. When XOM switched to their Visom formulation, if EP used a superior basestock once, as you said, that is likely no longer the case.

2: Go ahead and bet your dimes. Redline is known for their ester based oils. As is Motul. As far as Royal Purple...I don't know about their oils, nor do I care about their oils.

3: I frequent BITOG. It's not difficult to sift through the good information and the bad. It's not hard for me at least. It's regretful that you have a difficult time because there is a lot of good information provided there...much better than what is found here.

The bottomline is that as long as an oil meets specs, use whatever you think feels best. These motors aren't especially picky.

Mark, you seem fairly set in your ways, so I am not going to argue with you. If spending a few extra bucks on something that you are note even entirely sure about makes you all warm and fuzzy feeling inside, by all means, keep doing that.

As for me, and anyone else that isn't as easily convinced, use whatever is on sale and is readily available. Your engine won't care. If the engine burns oil or just doesn't "feel" right to you on a certain oil, don't use it again and try something else.

1. I never said that Mobil 1 EP was 100% Group IV/V, just that it was a higher percentage than regular Mobil 1. I admitted that EP has substantial amounts of Group III just like the most of the other Mobil 1 varieties sold in the US.
2. Group V Ester base stock is not better than Group IV Polymer, just different. There are not any 100% Group V (ester) base stock oils that are API certified, because they would not perform as well as a combo of IV and V.
3. I am not "set in my ways" and I rely on facts and evidence, not rumors published in BITOG. I posted the evidence that Mobil 1 some Group III, but substantial amounts of Group IV (or maybe V) also.
4. That's right, Mobil 1 EP is $3.08 more (for 5.5 quarts that my Genesis V6 uses) than regular Mobil 1 (at Walmart). I have got more money than that under the seat cushions of my couch, or the under the seats of my car.
5. Since you demanded evidence from me (and I provided it via the Japan MSDS), then please provide me with evidence about the "Visom formulation" you mentioned. Rumors posted on BITOG don't count as "evidence," although I will take a look if you post a link.