oil change notice

[darammer]

is there a dummy light that notifies you that you need to change your oil in the non tech version? My Toyota had a service light... does this one?

Have over 5K on my genesis, but no light yet... has anybody else seen a service notice?

 

[Mark_888]

No, you will not get a message from the vehicle. But you can sign up at this website and estimate you driving frequency, and they will send you an email (at least I suspect they will, although I have not driven enough miles or had the vehicle long enough to get one yet).
http://www.experiencegenesis.com

 

[ctrcbob]

I don't need a warning light to tell me it is time to change my oil. I change it somewhere between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on how I feel, and how & where the car has been driven. I use Full Synthetic, Group IV Oil. (Group III Synthetic if the price is right)

My Continental gets Full Synthetic Group IV Oil Changes every 10,000 miles. European cars using the same oils call for changes every 18,750 miles (30,000 km)

 

[DanTheMan]

I don't need a warning light to tell me it is time to change my oil. I change it somewhere between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on how I feel, and how & where the car has been driven. I use Full Synthetic, Group IV Oil. (Group III Synthetic if the price is right)

My Continental gets Full Synthetic Group IV Oil Changes every 10,000 miles. European cars using the same oils call for changes every 18,750 miles (30,000 km)

I agree about not needing an email or other notification. They can only project usage based on mileage to the point where you entered your mileage, probably based on an average daily usage (total miles divided by number of days of ownership equals daily miles, or something like that). It speaks nothing of how hard or easy (or somewhere in between) those miles were driven.

For me (and possibly others that don't know), what's the difference between Group III and Group IV synthetic oil? And, since you probably know that answer, maybe you could also answer this: I changed to semi-synthetic oil at my last (the car's first) oil change. I had it done at the dealer. They used the semi-synthetic as it seems that's all they offer. And now the question: In your estimation (I realize this is only a guess), would there be a reason other than cost that a dealer would use the semi-synthetic, or full synthetic oil? And, are there any significant benefits to using one over the other? I've wondered that on several occasions. I'm not certain that asking the dealer/service dept. would get a truly accurate answer--at least one they would be willing to share with me.

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.

Dan :>)

 

[Mark_888]

Synthetic oil is always better than conventional oil, and better than a synthetic blend (which is nothing more than about 10-15% synthetic and the rest conventional oil mixed together). Synthetic oils cost more, but provide superior engine protection. IMO, anyone who can afford a Genesis, and intends to keep it (not just leasing for 3 years or less) would be best served with a full synthetic.

The original synthetics were made from PAO and ester stocks, now called Group IV and V stock. Mobil was (and still is) one the major producers of Base IV and V PAO and ester base stocks, and they sell the synthetic base stock to many of their retail motor oil competitors.

In the late 1990's Castrol came up with a method of super-refining conventional oil which is now usually called hydro-cracking, and they started to call it a full synthetic oil. Mobil 1 filed complaints alleging false advertising since Castrol Syntec "full synthetic" was (and still is for product sold in the US) made from highly refined (hydro-cracked) conventional oils (now called Group III oil), but Mobil lost the argument. Group III oils in many respects will behave "nearly" as well as true synthetic base stock, so its popularity has grown, and it is cheaper to make than oil with Group IV/V PAO/ester base stock.

Since the ruling in favor of Castrol, almost all synthetic oil sold in the US has at least some Group III oil in it, although some of the better ones also have some PAO/ester stock (such as Mobil 1).

Even the Walmart house brand SuperTech Full Synthetic (Group III) is quite good, and far superior to any conventional oil.

Most dealers and oil change shops have Mobil 1 synthetic if you ask for it, but obviously you will to pay extra for the oil change.

As to why your dealer uses a synthetic blend? Even a little bit of synthetic is better than none at all, and the Hyundai warranty is quite long, so it would not surprise me if Hyundai specifies at least a synthetic blend oil for dealer oil changes (but that is speculation on my part).

 

[Poopsicle]

I don't need a warning light to tell me it is time to change my oil. I change it somewhere between 5000 and 7500 miles, depending on how I feel, and how & where the car has been driven. I use Full Synthetic, Group IV Oil. (Group III Synthetic if the price is right)

My Continental gets Full Synthetic Group IV Oil Changes every 10,000 miles. European cars using the same oils call for changes every 18,750 miles (30,000 km)

How do you know if an oil changes to or is Group III or Group IV? I remember Mobil changing from Group III to Group IV without warning until someone said something on the internet.

 

[Mark_888]

How do you know if an oil changes to or is Group III or Group IV? I remember Mobil changing from Group III to Group IV without warning until someone said something on the internet.

I think you have that backwards. At one time, Mobil 1 was 100% Group IV/V, but they now have a fair amount of Group III base stock in addition to Group IV/V PAO/ester. Castrol Syntec sold in the US is 100% Group III, which is hydrocracked (highly refined) mineral oil (conventional oil).

There are very few pure Group IV/V oils out there anymore, partly because Group III oils are allowed to call themselves 100% Synthetic and Group IV/V base stock is expensive, and also because there are some energy saving benefits to having at least some Group III stock in the oil.

 

[Poopsicle]

I think you have that backwards. At one time, Mobil 1 was 100% Group IV/V, but they now have a fair amount of Group III base stock in addition to Group IV/V PAO/ester. Castrol Syntec sold in the US is 100% Group III, which is hydrocracked (highly refined) mineral oil (conventional oil).

There are very few pure Group IV/V oils out there anymore, partly because Group III oils are allowed to call themselves 100% Synthetic and Group IV/V base stock is expensive, and also because there are some energy saving benefits to having at least some Group III stock in the oil.

But how do you know if they went from Group IV to Group III? How do I find out what oils are Group IV or V?

I don't want to spend my money on a Group III oil like Mobil 1 if I can get a Valvoline Synthetic Group VI oil for the same price.

 

[Mark_888]

But how do you know if they went from Group IV to Group III? How do I find out what oils are Group IV or V?

I don't want to spend my money on a Group III oil like Mobil 1 if I can get a Valvoline Synthetic Group VI oil for the same price.

I am not sure if you read my previous posts carefully.

Virtually all synthetic oil has at least some Group III in it, especially if it is an API certified energy saving formula. It is generally recognized that even though Mobil 1 now has some Group III in it, Mobil 1 still has more Group IV/V PAO/Ester stock than any major brand of synthetic oil, and as far as I know, as much or more than any API certified energy saving formula that is required to meet manufacturer specs.

Valvoline (on their website FAQ) refuses to answer the question whether it has any PAO base stock (Group IV), so we safely assume it is 100% Group III (or has only very small amounts of Group IV PAO).

Wherever you are getting your information, it is wrong.

 

[Mark_888]

Here is clarification on whether Valvoline Synthetic and Mobil 1 have PAO (Group IV) Base Stock:

From Valvoline SynPower FAQ:
Is SynPower a full synthetic? Is SynPower motor oil PAO or ester based? Does it require a special filter?
Yes, SynPower is 100% synthetic. Synpower uses a proprietary combination of various types of synthetic base oils to obtain optimum performance.

Translation: No, we don’t have any PAO or ester Group IV/V base stock, so we are a Group III synthetic.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=19

From Mobil 1 FAQ:
Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

Translation: Mobil 1 is no longer 100% PAO/Ester Stock, but it still uses PAO and other base stocks in its formulation.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils_FAQs.aspx#Mobil_1_FAQs21

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[USMA84]

Synthetic oil is always better than conventional oil, and better than a synthetic blend (which is nothing more than about 10-15% synthetic and the rest conventional oil mixed together). Synthetic oils cost more, but provide superior engine protection. IMO, anyone who can afford a Genesis, and intends to keep it (not just leasing for 3 years or less) would be best served with a full synthetic.

The original synthetics were made from PAO and ester stocks, now called Group IV and V stock. Mobil was (and still is) one the major producers of Base IV and V PAO and ester base stocks, and they sell the synthetic base stock to many of their retail motor oil competitors.

In the late 1990's Castrol came up with a method of super-refining conventional oil which is now usually called hydro-cracking, and they started to call it a full synthetic oil. Mobil 1 filed complaints alleging false advertising since Castrol Syntec "full synthetic" was (and still is for product sold in the US) made from highly refined (hydro-cracked) conventional oils (now called Group III oil), but Mobil lost the argument. Group III oils in many respects will behave "nearly" as well as true synthetic base stock, so its popularity has grown, and it is cheaper to make than oil with Group IV/V PAO/ester base stock.

Since the ruling in favor of Castrol, almost all synthetic oil sold in the US has at least some Group III oil in it, although some of the better ones also have some PAO/ester stock (such as Mobil 1).

Even the Walmart house brand SuperTech Full Synthetic (Group III) is quite good, and far superior to any conventional oil.

Most dealers and oil change shops have Mobil 1 synthetic if you ask for it, but obviously you will to pay extra for the oil change.

As to why your dealer uses a synthetic blend? Even a little bit of synthetic is better than none at all, and the Hyundai warranty is quite long, so it would not surprise me if Hyundai specifies at least a synthetic blend oil for dealer oil changes (but that is speculation on my part).

Mark, this is outstanding information! I had been told numerous times that Mobile 1 was a superior synthetic, but I never understood the distinction until now. Thanks for the Synthetic Oil 101 tutorial! Are you a chemical engineer or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

 

[Mark_888]

Mark, this is outstanding information! I had been told numerous times that Mobile 1 was a superior synthetic, but I never understood the distinction until now. Thanks for the Synthetic Oil 101 tutorial! Are you a chemical engineer or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

Holiday Inn Express. and participate in several forums on motor oils, and do a lot of research on my own, and I am fairly good at cutting right through marketing BS.

BTW, ExxonMobil is one the largest suppliers of high quality PAO/Ester base stocks for companies that do use it in their oils, including competitors of Mobil 1 brand.

Another good oil is rather pricey Castrol Edge (skip the Castrol Syntec which is Group III). But just about any Group III synthetic is still better than any conventional oil.

 

[rpenland]

Here is clarification on whether Valvoline Synthetic and Mobil 1 have PAO (Group IV) Base Stock:

From Valvoline SynPower FAQ:
Is SynPower a full synthetic? Is SynPower motor oil PAO or ester based? Does it require a special filter?
Yes, SynPower is 100% synthetic. Synpower uses a proprietary combination of various types of synthetic base oils to obtain optimum performance.

Translation: No, we don’t have any PAO or ester Group IV/V base stock, so we are a Group III synthetic.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=19

From Mobil 1 FAQ:
Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

Translation: Mobil 1 is no longer 100% PAO/Ester Stock, but it still uses PAO and other base stocks in its formulation.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils_FAQs.aspx#Mobil_1_FAQs21

As info only; I recently emailed Valvoline and asked them about the Group 3,4 and 5 makeup of their synthetic oil. They replied back and said that Valvoline uses a special blend of Group 3, Group 4 PAO, and Group 5 Esters in the blending of their synthetic oils. When I contacted Castrol they would only say that the makeup of their Castrol Syntec synthetic oil is proprietary.

 

[moose66]

Very good and helpful info. Thanks for sharing, and doing the legwork!

 

[DeMAN]

It was only a matter of time before the great oil debate would break out on this forum.


Now most base oils now are far better than they were say ten years ago or even 5 years ago. Most people nowadays would never notice the difference because most people wont keep there car long enough to tell. The EPA will force changes in oils to meet new guidelines. Most oils as stated meet or exceeds those goals.

You can argue until the cows comes home but changing your oil on regular interval is all you will need + the next person who will own the car around
60k-80k miles later

 

[Mark_888]

As info only; I recently emailed Valvoline and asked them about the Group 3,4 and 5 makeup of their synthetic oil. They replied back and said that Valvoline uses a special blend of Group 3, Group 4 PAO, and Group 5 Esters in the blending of their synthetic oils. When I contacted Castrol they would only say that the makeup of their Castrol Syntec synthetic oil is proprietary.

Ask them how much Group 4 and 5 they have. Probably a very small amount, which is why they don't claim it on their website. Or maybe the people who answer questions on their website are idiots, I don't really know.

But the idea that Mobil 1 has no PAO/ester stock as suggested by another poster is simply incorrect. Here is a news story about shortages in Mobil 1 products as a result of Hurrican Ike damaging the ExxonMobil PAO plant:


PAO Shortage Squeezes Mobil 1
By George Gill
10/28/08

The continued shutdown of the ExxonMobil Chemical polyalphaolefin (PAO) plant in Beaumont, Texas, has forced ExxonMobil Lubricants and Specialties to institute a sales allocation on a variety of Mobil 1 synthetic lubricants, effective Oct. 1.

“On Sept. 15, ExxonMobil Lubricants and Specialties was notified by our primary polyalphaolefin supplier, ExxonMobil Chemical, that Hurricane Ike had caused significant disruption to production capabilities at their Beaumont, Texas, plant, and to the ability of their suppliers to make deliveries of critical raw materials and services to the site,” the company told customers in a letter obtained by Lube Report. As a result, ExxonMobil Chemical implemented an allocation on sales of PAO base stocks to customers including ExxonMobil itself. “This allocation is expected to last several months,” the letter stated.

According to Lubes’n’Greases magazine, the Beaumont facility is one of the world’s largest PAO plants, with capacity to make 82,000 metric tons per year.

ExxonMobil spokesman Kevin Allexon confirmed yesterday that the PAO plant remains shut down due to the hurricane damage. “We have folks working on the repairs, we’re making good progress, but there’s no timetable for how much longer it will be,” Allexon told Lube Report.

According to the advisory letter, customer liftings are restricted to 100 percent of prior purchases on products such as Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40, 5W-40 and 15W-50 engine oils; on Delvac Synthetic ATF; Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40; and Extended Performance 5W-20, 10W-30 and 15W-50 motor oils. Also at 100 percent allocation is Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

There is a 65 percent allocation on the brand’s SAE 10W-30, and the allocations drop even further for Mobil 1 0W-20, 0W-30 and 5W-20 oils, to 25 percent. Truck and SUV 5W-30 is also at 25 percent allocation. The tightest allocations are those in force for Mobil 1 5W-30 (20 percent) and EP 5W-30 (15 percent).

In the letter, ExxonMobil explains that a product on 100 percent allocation means a customer can continue to purchase it at the customer’s average 2008 purchase levels. Volumes for the allocation are based on a customer's average monthly purchases from January to August 2008.
http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001239508.cfm

 

[USMA84]

is there a dummy light that notifies you that you need to change your oil in the non tech version? My Toyota had a service light... does this one?

Have over 5K on my genesis, but no light yet... has anybody else seen a service notice?

Back to the original question on this thread...

I know it's pretty "analogue", but just about any place you get your oil changed -- including dealerships -- they put a sticker on your windshield, with the mileage/date you need to hace your next change. If you use synthetic and you want to go beyond the 3K miles that most places use as the standard frequency on oil changes, tack-on the appropriate mileage.

Yes, my 2006 Suburban Z71 has an electronic indicator, but I usually pay more attention to the sticker on the windshield, than I do to the electronic reminder. Sorry for not being more "digital". Just a thought.

 

[Mark_888]

Back to the original question on this thread...

I know it's pretty "analogue", but just about any place you get your oil changed -- including dealerships -- they put a sticker on your windshield, with the mileage/date you need to hace your next change. If you use synthetic and you want to go beyond the 3K miles that most places use as the standard frequency on oil changes, tack-on the appropriate mileage.

Yes, my 2006 Suburban Z71 has an electronic indicator, but I usually pay more attention to the sticker on the windshield, than I do to the electronic reminder. Sorry for not being more "digital". Just a thought.

Aside from the fact that those stickers are hideous, they usually instruct you to change your oil after 3000 miles. That "may" be a good idea for conventional oil, but way over-kill for a synthetic. Hyundai specifies 7500 miles and 5000 miles for severe service, and they don't require synthetic oil.

On my previous cars I used the Trip-B odometer to record the number of miles since my last oil change. Imagine my surprise when I found out that the trip odometers on the Genesis only go up to 999 miles. I guess that in Korea, that is as far as you can drive in one trip.

 

[USMA84]

Here is a news story about shortages in Mobil 1 products as a result of Hurrican Ike damaging the ExxonMobil PAO plant:


PAO Shortage Squeezes Mobil 1
By George Gill
10/28/08

The continued shutdown of the ExxonMobil Chemical polyalphaolefin (PAO) plant in Beaumont, Texas, has forced ExxonMobil Lubricants and Specialties to institute a sales allocation on a variety of Mobil 1 synthetic lubricants, effective Oct. 1.http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001239508.cfm

Since this article/information is five months old, I wonder if ExxonMobil Chemical is back up to speed yet. I tried googling it, but didn't find anything more current. There's nothing new on either exxonmobile.com or exxonmobilechemical.com.

 

[Mark_888]

Since this article/information is five months old, I wonder if ExxonMobil Chemical is back up to speed yet. I tried googling it, but didn't find anything more current. There's nothing new on either exxonmobile.com or exxonmobilechemical.com.

Yes, it appears that Mobil 1 supplies are back to normal. If you go to the Mobil 1 site and register, you can get 2 free $10 mail-in rebates for Mobil 1 oil purchased between April 1 and August 31. They said they are doing the rebate to compensate customers for the inconvenience caused by the shortages. Sounds like they may have lost some business to other companies during the shortage, and they want to entice them back.

Advance Auto Parts has sale on Mobil 1 ($29.99 for 5 quarts of any Mobil 1 oil plus a Mobil 1 oil filter) that ends tomorrow, March 25th. They have a similar oil/filter sale on some other brands of conventional oil (obviously for a much lower price). Not sure if they have any other synthetics on sale. The only problem is that they don't stock the Genesis oil filter, so you would have to get a filter that fits one of your other cars.