BTR No Longer Tuning?

[MG8]

Well ,some of the German cars are under-rated from the factory(or inaccurate kw-to-hp conversion) and are making nearly the published peak numbers at the wheels when dyno'ed. Hence why a 440 hp BMW moves much faster than an a similar rated American or Asian model. However, gearing also is factor.

One example of BMW horsepower number fudging. The new m5 is rated at 600 hp but makes 625 at the wheels.
New BMW M5 Produces 625 Horsepower Stock At The Wheels

Just remembered 07 to 13 bmw m3 they overrated the hp at 414hp , owners would dyno low 300whp with mods and stock would be in the 290whp ish. I'm assuming that could of played part of why they started under rating them.

 

[edizzle89]

Again, this is why Hyundai engines are the best bang for the buck. Even the tunes are more cost effective than the other luxury makes turbo engine tunes.

except you can get a JB4 for BMW, Benz, Infiniti, Lexus, Porsche, Audi, etc. for the same price as the JB4 for a Hyundai and see similar gains.

 

[DaNooch]

I thought Korea didn't get the V8's?

They didn't the 5.0 was a US only thing (maybe Europe?) but they only have 3.8's and 3.3's in Korea.. hence why you don't have much support in the aftermarket and prob never will.. If you go to South Korea you will see genesis's or "Rohen's" with ridiculous amounts of work done to them..

 

[DaNooch]

The Genesis/G80 is not the I30 in Korea. The Genesis 5.0 has minimum tuner support even in Korea.

The I30
i30 Highlights

My bad man I was having a brain fart there thinking about my old Infiniti and a complete copy Daewoo made of it..
The 5.0 is a US only motor..

 

[carguy75]

except you can get a JB4 for BMW, Benz, Infiniti, Lexus, Porsche, Audi, etc. for the same price as the JB4 for a Hyundai and see similar gains.

Just checked a JB4 store, and you are correct. The tunes are similarly priced for all makes and create nearly the same horsepower for the larger turbo engines as on the Hyundai 3.3T tune.
So I will just say that Hyundai engines are a best bang for the buck in terms of performance engines.

 

[carguy75]

My bad man I was having a brain fart there thinking about my old Infiniti and a complete copy Daewoo made of it..
The 5.0 is a US only motor..

Its cool. I was hoping that you were right so that I can find a tune for my 2015 5.0 engine even if I had to ship it from Korea.

 

[carguy75]

Just remembered 07 to 13 bmw m3 they overrated the hp at 414hp , owners would dyno low 300whp with mods and stock would be in the 290whp ish. I'm assuming that could of played part of why they started under rating them.

I was just stating facts I read about many European models in general. Audi/VW engines(2.0T) seem to dyno wheel power that is close to the published crank numbers as well as some Mercedes and BMW engines. I do not know all the specific engines that are underrated, but mostly European engines dyno fairly high wheel hp overall. Asian engines seem not to dyno near crank numbers at the wheels overall.

 

[2black]

I’ve been off the forums for a while and am shocked to hear that the BTR tune is no longer available. Since I’ve lived with it ECU/TCU wise since it’s introduction, I’ve got to say it’s quite transformative. The 14 r-spec is a very good car on its own, but when it’s unleashed without electronic handicap it’s a lot of fun. I’ve often thought of moving on from it but it still enables smiles even after 5 years. Out of curiosity how many BTR tunes are out there...am I the only one?

 

[MG8]

I’ve been off the forums for a while and am shocked to hear that the BTR tune is no longer available. Since I’ve lived with it ECU/TCU wise since it’s introduction, I’ve got to say it’s quite transformative. The 14 r-spec is a very good car on its own, but when it’s unleashed without electronic handicap it’s a lot of fun. I’ve often thought of moving on from it but it still enables smiles even after 5 years. Out of curiosity how many BTR tunes are out there...am I the only one?

I got one

 

[2black]

I got one

Did you achieve similar results...have you dyno'd your vehicle

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[66nexus]

They didn't the 5.0 was a US only thing (maybe Europe?) but they only have 3.8's and 3.3's in Korea.. hence why you don't have much support in the aftermarket and prob never will.. If you go to South Korea you will see genesis's or "Rohen's" with ridiculous amounts of work done to them..

On that we agree. That's why I have to get my 'inspiration' from videos like above (there are nice Genny's in the US, but the Koreans are better able to go all out since it's easier for them to do so).

 

[DaNooch]

I was just stating facts I read about many European models in general. Audi/VW engines(2.0T) seem to dyno wheel power that is close to the published crank numbers as well as some Mercedes and BMW engines. I do not know all the specific engines that are underrated, but mostly European engines dyno fairly high wheel hp overall. Asian engines seem not to dyno near crank numbers at the wheels overall.

It all really depends on the type of car, the type of drivetrain it has, how much loss the drivetrain absorbs, etc..All production cars have to fall within a small percentage of their claimed power rating, if they don't they can be fined millions and also have to buy back every vehicle they sold under false pretenses.. Its happened a few times. Automakers try to avoid that at all costs cause it could ruin them.
Now this really only is an issue when the engine or car “under-performs” No one raises red flags when its lutting down way more than advertised. If a car is outting down way higher power everyone just high 5’s..
I disagree that asian cars dyno low or that its regional.. I.E If you look at pretty much the japanese power houses that dominated the sports car sales of the 90’s, the 300zx TT, the Supra TT, the RX-7 TT, 3000GT TT, and even japanese only cars like the R32-34 Skyline GTR’s were rated and advertized as all having 276hp.. This was a gentlemans agreement between them, Dude my bone stock 91 300zx TT put down over 300 on the dyno.. It was putting “to the wheels” more than the claimed crank hp rating.. lol..

Plus almost every new muscle car the big three are putting out are grossly underrated. The corvette ZR1 is rated at 730hp, the first manual ZR1 to come off the assembly line the guy took delivery and drove it straight to the dyno. With what the tuner claimed was a “very conservative fuel trim and tune from GM” it put down 686.. lol

 

[DaNooch]

On that we agree. That's why I have to get my 'inspiration' from videos like above (there are nice Genny's in the US, but the Koreans are better able to go all out since it's easier for them to do so).

I dont understand why we cant access and order/import all these parts they offer over there?? You think they would want to sell to America?? Sucks

 

[DaNooch]

Keep in mind, those are peak numbers. The JB4 is very sophisticated for a piggyback, and great for the price. However, given the choice, I'd pay 4 times that for a good tune.

I was thinking about getting a Stinger GT before getting the Genesis. Seemed like a great way to get a low 12s car. I saw the Dyno carts for the stinger + piggyback, and decided not to go that route. Look at their torque curve compared to a turbo Audi or BMW, ad you how those cars(similar sized) are faster with less power.

I agree 100% the JB4 and others like ApexI, Diablo, etc.. they are very sophisticated and can be placed on almost every car. But they are no where close to what a real tune will do for the car..And the numbers they advertise are what they got out of the thing adjusting it for hours and who knows what supporting mods. Its not false advertising if they leave info out.. lol
People dont realize that the piggybacks are simply tricking the ECU to do things at certain points and ranges, and you have to set these..It is not the greatest for the engine. It manipulates parameters that should require the changing of another parameter and the piggy back cant acess that one. Not to mention the piggy back will be able to manipulate only certain points say every 50rpms you can be adjusting the timing and fuel maps.. The factory ECU does it thousands of times a second. It will work good for racing and peak numbers, but, is nothing compared to the factory ECU. Most do not understand how many combustions happen in your engine when its turning 6k rpm..

Plus unless all you guys have Genesis coupes or the new 3.3 or 2.0 turbo motors, you cant use the JB4 anyways? So im not sure why its even compared?

 

[DaNooch]

Just checked a JB4 store, and you are correct. The tunes are similarly priced for all makes and create nearly the same horsepower for the larger turbo engines as on the Hyundai 3.3T tune.
So I will just say that Hyundai engines are a best bang for the buck in terms of performance engines.

Haha, although i love my genesis and im sure you do as well. Hyundai is no where near “the best bang fir your buck performance engines” GM’s LS engines have held that title for a long time. And even fords 5.0 coyote motor is cheaper and puts out more power.

 

[carguy75]

Haha, although i love my genesis and im sure you do as well. Hyundai is no where near “the best bang fir your buck performance engines” GM’s LS engines have held that title for a long time. And even fords 5.0 coyote motor is cheaper and puts out more power.

Got a point. I was actually referring to luxury performance engines such as BMW and Audi engines, but you are correct that Ford and GM sell affordable performance cars that are cheaper than a Genesis or G70/80 with a strong aftermarket support.

 

[carguy75]

It all really depends on the type of car, the type of drivetrain it has, how much loss the drivetrain absorbs, etc..All production cars have to fall within a small percentage of their claimed power rating, if they don't they can be fined millions and also have to buy back every vehicle they sold under false pretenses.. Its happened a few times. Automakers try to avoid that at all costs cause it could ruin them.
Now this really only is an issue when the engine or car “under-performs” No one raises red flags when its lutting down way more than advertised. If a car is outting down way higher power everyone just high 5’s..
I disagree that asian cars dyno low or that its regional.. I.E If you look at pretty much the japanese power houses that dominated the sports car sales of the 90’s, the 300zx TT, the Supra TT, the RX-7 TT, 3000GT TT, and even japanese only cars like the R32-34 Skyline GTR’s were rated and advertized as all having 276hp.. This was a gentlemans agreement between them, Dude my bone stock 91 300zx TT put down over 300 on the dyno.. It was putting “to the wheels” more than the claimed crank hp rating.. lol..

Plus almost every new muscle car the big three are putting out are grossly underrated. The corvette ZR1 is rated at 730hp, the first manual ZR1 to come off the assembly line the guy took delivery and drove it straight to the dyno. With what the tuner claimed was a “very conservative fuel trim and tune from GM” it put down 686.. lol

Hence may statement that overall most Asian engines are producing less than advertised crank power when placed on a chassis dyno. However, there is always an exception to the rule. European built engines since to be more conservatively rated in my opinion.

 

[MG8]

Did you achieve similar results...have you dyno'd your vehicle

i have dyno'd back in 2013 when i had under 20k miles bone stock i did 361 ish whp but not since all my mods. i'll try to find time ill attempt to get it done asap.

 

[DaNooch]

Hence may statement that overall most Asian engines are producing less than advertised crank power when placed on a chassis dyno. However, there is always an exception to the rule. European built engines since to be more conservatively rated in my opinion.

No i said all the asian cars produced far more to the ground then they were rated/advertised as? Listed at 276 crank yet they put down over 300 to the wheels, so they were more like 350+ crank

 

[DaNooch]

Got a point. I was actually referring to luxury performance engines such as BMW and Audi engines, but you are correct that Ford and GM sell affordable performance cars that are cheaper than a Genesis or G70/80 with a strong aftermarket support.

Oh yea man if you are talking about just luxury sedans then hell yes i def agree the hyundai motor is the best for your dollar. (From the factory) But after that not so much because the rest have tons kf aftermarket support and we have none. So they can make their cars much faster easier and cheaper. It just blows that there is no aftermarket support for us.