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Weird MPG results... Calling v8 owners

wallymn

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First I should explain I have a long isolated commute...
87 miles a day mostly flat (no elevation variation more than 100 ft)...
v-8 sedan...

I have been tracking MPG against driving and noticed that I get about 2.3 MPG better economy at 67 than at 57 indicated (Navi reports 65 and 55)...
I use cruise control in both test (repeated many many times)....

Is anyone else seeing WORSE MPG at the speed limit than normal traffic speed?
 
that is weird. have you noticed the RPM's at those speeds?
 
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yes, both cases the car stays in 6th gear just about 1500 and 1700 RPM...

I don't know it is a problem just thought it was very odd... I have run the loop over 10 times each and the results don't vary...
 
Your observation is CORRECT! On the two long trips I've taken, I always got much better MPG at 70-75mph than at lower mph. Don't know why, but I think that the VVT on both the intake and exaust has something to do with it.

BTW, on those two long trips, I averaged 27.5 on one trip, and 28.8 on the other. All Interstate miles.
 
Many gas engines run more efficiently at higher speed. BMW for years claim its cars save fuel running 70+mph than the 50mph government imposed back in the gas crisis days.
 
Fwiw, engines can run richer or leaner at different rpm, and there is the soft transition from increased velocity versus wind resistance. On modern cars with low CoD, the ideal speed is actually pretty high so getting better mpg at ~65 than ~55 is believable. Once you get to a certain wind resistance mpg will start to drop as the distance travelled requires more work (and fuel) to maintain.

In general, most fuel is consumed getting that 4,000 lbs of car to move in the first place - changing inertia requires a lot of energy, but once the vehicle is moving, very little is needed to keep it moving, you just need to overcome friction.
 
I think it has been reported on this forum several times by members who have indicated better observed gas mileage when they were traveling at speeds above the posted limit. I too have experienced this. When I am doing a cool 70 (or so ;)), my mileage appears to be better than when I am doing 55-60. Not a car tech guy, but maybe it has something to do with the relationship between the six speed tranny and the engine. Nice, smooth, average revs (at 70 mpg) = faily decent mpg's? Okay car guys and gals, what do you think?
 
I have 4500 miles on the car and each trip I have taken has gotten better mileage. I have found that cruising at about 75 gives absolutely great mileage. Example:

Dallas to Austin, one stop for breakfast, all interstate or freeway, running 75 to 80, the car showed 29.9 mpg at the first traffic light in Austin. Most mileage monitors of this type are a bit optimistic, but it is still darn good mileage. I get 23 to 24 indicated in mixed driving , about 2/3 rural and 1/3 city.
 
I get about 17-18 in normal everyday city use, most of that is traveling at about half 45/half 80 (if there is no traffic). 20 miles at the most. When I drove from Texas to Florida I was getting about 23-24 and that was cruising at 75-90 the entire time.

Kind of lower than I had expected, but I DO ride this car hard. Petal to the floor most of the time. Also, I guess I didn't really have high hopes for good gas mileage when I bought the v8 over the 6, so I cant really be disappointed.
 
In a related issue...

Does anyone else find the instant MPG to be the most ridiculous gauge they have ever seen? Seriously, a BAR GRAPH with TWO labels on the mpg axis (25 and 50)! Insanity!
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Same here. Just recently made a trip from Jacksonville, FL to Tampa and back running 75+ and I was amazed to see 28.5 mpg. I don't get it either, but I like it!
 
In a related issue...

Does anyone else find the instant MPG to be the most ridiculous gauge they have ever seen? Seriously, a BAR GRAPH with TWO labels on the mpg axis (25 and 50)! Insanity!

Yeah, the 2.5 mph gradients and no historical view is pretty useless. Well, it's somewhat educational in trying to tune your hypermiling behavior, but I would have preferred a line graph.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that while the trip computer is a helpful gauge, it's not particularly accurate. Perhaps that's because seems to take recent mileage performance and extrapolating it to the remaining fuel? At any rate, it seems to overstate the absolute gas mileage (odometer reading/fuel pumped) by at least 5-10% in my experience. And that's with refueling from the exact same pump, same station, same time, to the same tank volume.
 
In a related issue...

Does anyone else find the instant MPG to be the most ridiculous gauge they have ever seen? Seriously, a BAR GRAPH with TWO labels on the mpg axis (25 and 50)! Insanity!

Yeah the MPG bar is pretty bad and almost useless. I miss my on board computer in my '94 Grand Prix GTP w/special edition package.
 
Any effect on MPG while running the AC unit simultaneously, for those of you who have run the Genny in differing climates???? Or with windows /skylight opened or closed??? Are we comparing apples to apples here or not???
 
Fwiw, engines can run richer or leaner at different rpm, and there is the soft transition from increased velocity versus wind resistance. On modern cars with low CoD, the ideal speed is actually pretty high so getting better mpg at ~65 than ~55 is believable. Once you get to a certain wind resistance mpg will start to drop as the distance travelled requires more work (and fuel) to maintain.

In general, most fuel is consumed getting that 4,000 lbs of car to move in the first place - changing inertia requires a lot of energy, but once the vehicle is moving, very little is needed to keep it moving, you just need to overcome friction.

This is not entirely correct. Wind resistance increases as the square of the velocity, so the drag increases significantly from 55 mph to 65 mph (about 40%); there is no practical situation where the drag profile is more favorable at a higher speed than at a lower one.

I think what you're trying to say is that low-speed operation of a vehicle is inefficient because all of the road friction, mechanical drag, pumping losses, etc., are relatively large in proportion to the wind resistance. The car is using a certain amount of fuel just idling, and cannot go below that threshold, while it is traveling very little distance. However, there is some optimal speed at which the distance traveled is greatest in proportion to the amount of fuel above idle that is consumed. This is typically around 35 mph, after which the drag becomes a significant factor. And don't forget that rolling resistance for the tires also goes up with velocity.

This is why modern automatic transmissions with very high overdrive ratios perform so well with regard to fuel mileage; the engine is operating barely above idle at freeway speeds. It is also operating in a relatively efficient part of it's band...larger throttle opening to reduce pumping losses instead of light throttle at higher rpm. A full-sized car requires about 15 hp to maintain 60 mph (you're right, it takes a whole lot more to get it there quickly). Consider that the accessory drives on the engine probably often consume more than that, so the total fuel consumed would increase by only 50% if we doubled the amount of power we put onto the road.

In any case, as the vehicle speed increases, the idling costs become relatively smaller and smaller, but the drag increases fast; fuel consumption goes up proportionately, so it should get progressively worse for every mph you travel above about 35 mph-or-so. My Acura follows this behavior very closely: It gets phenomenal mileage at 55, slightly worse mileage at 70, and it starts to fall off noticeably at about 85, which I actually do have the ability to cruise at for long distances. Under those same conditions (steady cruise, not start-and-stop), the car would actually do much better at 35 mph, which is why the drivers tried to keep their speeds down in the old Mobilgas economy runs (what we'd call "hypermiling" today).

So, I'm at a loss to understand how the car could get much better mileage at 65 than 55...especially considering that it is in 6th gear in both cases. The only thing I can theorize is that there is something about the variable valve timing or fuel injection programming that happens to be in an unfavorable position around the lower speed. Or that the conditions really aren't equal, and something about the duty cycle is different under the two different speeds.

Interesting point, though...if I buy one of the cars, I'll have to watch for this.
 
Any effect on MPG while running the AC unit simultaneously, for those of you who have run the Genny in differing climates???? Or with windows /skylight opened or closed??? Are we comparing apples to apples here or not???

None. I drove from LA to San Fran in 100+ weather with A/C blasting and I was getting 27 MPG going 80 the whole way.
 
I think every car has a "sweet spot" where all of the design, engineering and actual assembly come together. In my opinion the V8 Genesis just loves to run at the 70-75 mph zone. This is where the car really shines from mpg, noise, cruising ability, comfort, handling, stability, etc. While in this zone it is as good as any car made by anybody with excellent accelleration up from this point and decelleration down, crash avaoidance, etc.

Now, I just wish the police would appreciate that fact and let me consistently drive in that zone without thier red lights and ticket books.
 
I think every car has a "sweet spot" where all of the design, engineering and actual assembly come together. In my opinion the V8 Genesis just loves to run at the 70-75 mph zone. This is where the car really shines from mpg, noise, cruising ability, comfort, handling, stability, etc. While in this zone it is as good as any car made by anybody with excellent accelleration up from this point and decelleration down, crash avaoidance, etc.

Now, I just wish the police would appreciate that fact and let me consistently drive in that zone without thier red lights and ticket books.

Absolutely Gipp! The 5-0 hasn't a care in the world that our cars operate optimally at 70 MPH! I like it! :D
 
JamesD has it correct about the very tall overdirve gears on the Genesis AT's. On my V6 4th gear is 1:1 and both 5th and 6th are overdrive. I believe it is similar on the V8.
 
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