3.8 oil change questions

[Mark_888]

I'm no expert on oil, but since Hyundai is willing to warranty the motor for 100,000 miles using conventional, I'd agree with you there's probably no benefit to using synthetic. Unless it makes you feel better.

That is a good point, but sometimes there is a fine line between when there is a problem with an engine, and when the problem is big enough so that Hyundai is willing overhaul it or replace it if the engine is still running.

I have heard stories that if the engine is still running, and has more than 50,000 miles, they are not going to fix something unless it is really serious. For example, if you engine starting sounding noisier than when it was new, lost some horsepower, and mileage dropped 3 MPG, you may be SOL if the engine is still running. Typically they will claim that such symptoms are normal for an engine with a lot of mileage on it.

 

[TJPark01]

I run nothing but Amsoil in my gasoline engines and Shell Rotella in my diesels. Oddly enough, I very rarely keep a vehicle past 36,000 miles so it's of even less benefit to me, but it makes me feel better - so long as it's in my possession, I do the best that I can.

I think if you're running short trips is subzero weather (Minnesota winters) or Phoenix 120 degree summers, it merits usage and cost, certainly can't hurt. The only reason I am willing to use Mobil 1 is that I can get it at Costco for 3.50 a quart and I buy enough for a year. Not to mention I change it in my garage. If I had to pay someone else to do I, I wouldn't.

 

[Sayantsi]

In theory the piston rings seat faster and better with conventional oil since it has more friction than synthetics. However, there is not as much difference between conventional oil and synthetics as there used to be (many conventional oils, especially 5W-20 and 0W-20 have a small amounts of Group III synthetics in them and their additive packages have improved). At the same time, very few synthetics these days are 100% Group IV/V PAO/Ester stock anymore.

At one time some cars with factory fill synthetic or very early changes to synthetic did have a problem with piston rings seating properly. The problems varied from minor (less than optimal gas mileage) to major (serious engine problems in a few cases).

Thanks for the explanation - Really you'd have no issues if you switched at 10k mi to synth, you might as well keep dino in for a bit to run the engine in.

 

[C6Shortimer]

Something else to consider when changing out factory oil is the break-in metal often found in the oil pan at the first oil change. Who knows what the oil filter has trapped? Lots of cars have a small magnet on the oil drain plug. It's normal to fine a small amount of metal shavings on the plug. Changing your oil and filter before the first recommended oil change period occurs is good for your piece of mind as well as the engine. I converted my '02 Infiniti to full synthetic at 3,600 miles. I drive about 7,000 miles a year with this car so I now change the oil and filter once a year. That's my .02 cents.

 

[ashs]

Yes, I think I'll do what did with my Diamante and it seems to have worked out well: change factory oil and filter at around 1000 miles to get rid of break-in metal; switch at around 4000 miles to full synthetic; and then change every 5000 miles.

 

[Sayantsi]

Fwiw, everyone always talks engine oil - don't forget you also have transmission oil and differential oil.

 

[Mark_888]

Fwiw, everyone always talks engine oil - don't forget you also have transmission oil and differential oil.

The Genesis uses synthetic transmission oil (different oil spec for Aisin on the V6, and ZF on the V8) and there is no change interval specified by Hyundai (at least not that I have seen).

 

[Sayantsi]

You know, I haven't actually looked for the specs so I don't know about intervals (but we're talking about changing early anyway, so what does it matter), but if you go with the theory that new cars shed a lot of metal as they break in, you probably want to change the other oils while you're at it.

I know that in the past when I've drained these fluids with magnetic plugs, there is always a lot more metal caught in the first change than any change after it.

 

[TJPark01]

The Genesis uses synthetic transmission oil (different oil spec for Aisin on the V6, and ZF on the V8) and there is no change interval specified by Hyundai (at least not that I have seen).

You are correct. There is no specific interval to change the tranny oil. You can't even check it, there's no dipstick. You have to go underneath the car to check it. The service manual states to check it 30 months or 37,500 miles, and it's not something the average person can do.

 

[TJPark01]

You know, I haven't actually looked for the specs so I don't know about intervals (but we're talking about changing early anyway, so what does it matter), but if you go with the theory that new cars shed a lot of metal as they break in, you probably want to change the other oils while you're at it.

I know that in the past when I've drained these fluids with magnetic plugs, there is always a lot more metal caught in the first change than any change after it.

The 3.8 has both a filter and magnets inside the transmission pan and uses a Toyota specific synthetic ATF. Unless the transmission is doing something strange, there's really no need to change the fluid.

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[Mark_888]

You know, I haven't actually looked for the specs so I don't know about intervals (but we're talking about changing early anyway, so what does it matter), but if you go with the theory that new cars shed a lot of metal as they break in, you probably want to change the other oils while you're at it.

I know that in the past when I've drained these fluids with magnetic plugs, there is always a lot more metal caught in the first change than any change after it.

As TJPark01 already mentioned, the lack of a specified transmission fluid change interval by Hyundai means that it does not have to be changed under normal circumstances. I guess I did not make that clear in my post above.

 

[STREETS]

Is the Oil Plug magnetized as well?

 

[TJPark01]

Is the Oil Plug magnetized as well?

Not 100% sure, but I don't think so. I doubt it though, since the engine is aluminum, not sure magnets do you any good in the oil sump.

 

[Sayantsi]

As TJPark01 already mentioned, the lack of a specified transmission fluid change interval by Hyundai means that it does not have to be changed under normal circumstances. I guess I did not make that clear in my post above.

Sure - I understand what you're saying - I'm trying to point out though that if you think you should change the engine oil sooner than normal because the break in creates a high metal count in the oil, that logic should carry over to the other oils and metallic parts of the car as well, despite service intervals.

 

[Mark_888]

Sure - I understand what you're saying - I'm trying to point out though that if you think you should change the engine oil sooner than normal because the break in creates a high metal count in the oil, that logic should carry over to the other oils and metallic parts of the car as well, despite service intervals.

Given that not many techs are going to have experience changing the transmission fluid on a Genesis sedan, IMO the chances of them screwing something up during the change (like using the wrong fluid) is higher than the chance it will do any good to change it.

 

[Sayantsi]

I guess, but its even simpler than changing engine oil - two bolts - all you need is the correct fluid to fill it with.

 

[Mark_888]

I guess, but its even simpler than changing engine oil - two bolts - all you need is the correct fluid to fill it with.

You need the correct fluid (a very specific synthetic that is different than the synthetic used in ZF transmission on the V8). I am sure some techs will think they know what can be used as a substitution if they don't have the right one, and subsequently damage the transmission. BTW, even if a dealer does this, they will probably deny it, since you will have no proof that they used the wrong fluid and they will claim that you (or another shop) put the wrong fluid in.

You also need to the right amount of fluid.

I can almost guarantee that 25% of the time they will screw it up, especially since they would rarely have any experience doing it.

 

[dave3.8]

Synthetic basically wont break down like conventional oils and in theory would remain effective so long that it would scare you. I've known people who changed their filter every 5K and ran 20K before changing the oil itself although I wouldn't do it personally. Let the conventional oil run through break-in to set the rings and seals, and then go ahead and swap to syn. It's solid long protection.

 

[dave3.8]

I'm not trying to start a thread here but... After break in I changed out all the fluids in the car making sure that the syn met Hyundai specs. Engine, diff, trans, brakes and added WaterWetter to the coolant. Also added a K&N air filter. Mileage is up slightly, car seems to have slightly better pickup. There's no magic bullet to swap fluids and see dramatic improvements anywhere. What I do have is the best "protection" for moving parts / metal on metal contact that is easily available. I view it as insurance and have been doing it since the 70's when you bought Amsoil from a guy selling it out of his trunk. My old late 70's BMW wouldn't shift in the NY winters without 3 people pulling on the lever. Swapped out to syn and you could change gears with your little finger at 20 below. Syn brake fluid won't break down like conventional because it won't absorb water. The benefits are not dramatic as the manufacturers would have you think. The benefits are long term which is what, IMHO, is the real issue. I'm a simple guy (and seasoned mechanic). Just be practical, change your filters often (the oil may not break down but the filter will) and change fluids based on your location and driving pattern and you will see benefits. A couple of hours to swap out the fluids is the cheapest insurance / hedge your bets you can invest in.

 

[Sayantsi]

So I picked up a new oil filter and it comes with three o-rings and the crush washer. I can see where two of the o rings go, but where does the third go?