Not feeling great about my purchase/need advice

[Johnboy2k10]

Hi Everyone. New owner here. I was hoping my first post after purchase would be a lot more positive, but here goes (possibly a TLDR?):

On March 26th, I showed up at a local Hyundai Dealership to test drive a 2011 4.6 Genesis Sedan. Navigating the lot with the salesman we came across a black sedan that I noticed was unique right away as it had tinted windows and had the winged logo on the trunk. I asked about the curious appearance as it definitely wasn't factory spec and the salesman explained that it was a demo. I took it for a good test drive for several miles and about half way through I noticed the yellow check engine light was on, but as this was only a test drive, I was not overly concerned. When I returned to the lot, I was greeted by a sales manager who introduced himself and asked me what I thought of it. We chatted for a bit and I let him know the check engine light was on in the vehicle I just drove. He brushed it off explaining that the gas cap was likely not tightened properly and that it happens frequently on new vehicles and it's very easy to reset. He then asked if I wanted to discuss the financials with my salesman. I was prepared to negotiate at this point so I agreed.

After evaluating my trade in, the salesman came back saying that this is the "pimped out edition" as it was a demo for the VP of the auto group. He stated that it came with the tinted windows, winged badge, command start, and a 2nd set of (winter) tires mounted on the factory rims. Thinking this was a great value, I proceeded to negotiate on the vehicle I had just test driven not giving much concern to the check engine light or the fact that the demo had 5000 miles on it. I could live with the 5000 miles with everything included.

After a bit of back and forth on the negotiating, I shook his hand and signed a purchase agreement. He seemed very eager to get me out the door that day with the vehicle, which in hindsight maybe was a bit of a red flag, but let's be honest, I was just as eager to take it home. After a bit of time with a finance manager, they washed up my new car and we did the new vehicle inspection. During this time I explicitly pointed to the rims and asked "So the second set of tires comes with rims just like this" ans his response was "yep, you bet." During this inspection I also asked him about the check engine light and his response was similar to that of the managers, that it was an o2 sensor error; the result of the fuel cap not being tightened properly.

As the 26th was a Saturday, I had to make arrangements to bring the car back on Monday to have the paint protection done as well as have a few minor scratches taken care of. My salesman said that at that time he would have the tires ready to go as well as the command start remote and while the vehicle was there they could have the check engine light reset. When I returned to the dealership Monday evening, they had already loaded the tires (2 in the trunk, 2 in the back seat) and they were wrapped up in tire bags. I also asked about the command start remote and the story on that was the 'VP' still had it and he doesn't come down to the dealership often, but they would retrieve it and leave it in service for me when I came down for my first oil change. Further to this, the scratches were not taken care of AT ALL! They applied the paint protection right over top of them, preventing them from being polished out. When I pointed this out, my salesman was very adamant that they would get it corrected to my standards on my next visit. I got in my otherwise freshly detailed vehicle and started it up, and lo and behold was greeted by the check engine light. I immediately turned of the ignition and went back into the dealership to ask my salesman what the deal was with that. He took me to service where we spoke to one of the technicians and he took a jab at the sales people by saying they didn't know how to properly replace a fuel cap, but we should book an appointment just to be sure but the light would likely clear itself.

I returned home and began to unload the tires "on rims" only to discover that they were not on rims at all. At this point I started to get a little bit aggravated that I could no longer trust what was happening, I called up my salesman right away. Reception informed me he was busy with a customer and they would have him call me back. He didn't. Forward 1 day (29th) I received a call from the customer service manager asking me about my experience so I let her know my disappointment with the scratches as well as the missing rims. She like everyone else was very reassuring that I was going to get what was offered to me and what I paid for and that since I already had an appointment booked for the 4th of April, that would be a great time to address the scratches. Later that day, I received my callback from my salesman. I was very blunt about the missing rims and he pointed the blame to the people in the tower that wrote it down and he would have to pull my paperwork to see what was on the offer sheet (not even acknowledging our discussion during the delivery inspection). He asked when I could come review it with him and I said that I would be in on Monday evening and he advised me that he would be available.

Fast forward to today. I dropped my car off in the morning and received a phone call at around 5:30 explaining that the OBD2 error is actually a "random misfire". The service tech explained what they did and that they were not confident what was done today would fix it as they had to chat with 'Hyundai Engineers" about the issue and this is a difficult issue to resolve and would require me to return the car back to the dealership soon once they have a response from the engineers. I was told to come pickup my keys as the car would be drivable in the meantime. I came picked up my keys and thought I would discuss my issues with my salesman. When I approached him, he looked like a deer caught in the headlights like an "Oh Sh*t!" kind of moment. He didn't have my command start remote and he didn't have any update on my rims. I felt it necessary to tell him that my check engine light had nothing to do with the g*d damn gas cap and that a random misfire on my brand new car was concerning. His response was "Well maybe you'll get a brand new genesis instead of a demo then" (taking this comment with a grain of salt as his word is meaningless to me now). On top of all of this, they still haven't resolved my scratches as they were too busy attempting to resolve the random misfire issue.

Agh! Sorry this is so long, but I don't know what to do. I don't feel this is right for a brand new car. I live in Canada and there are no lemon laws here like the US. If anyone has any suggestions at all, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[homeofstone]

All I can say is that Rick Case Hyundia in Atlanta GA and Five Star Hyundai in Macon GA USA would have never treated you like you have described. Sounds like really bad managment. Customers deserve better even if they buy an Accent,

 

[DJaxx]

Very sorry to hear of the highly unethical and downright objectionable treatment administered by this dealer......Given many members on this site are Canadian it would likely be of significant value to know the name and location of the dealership.

Will be very curious to see how your situation is resolved......hopefully to your satisfaction.

 

[JustMe]

You could contact the dealer and informed them that you will be reporting them to the BBB if they don't get their act together within the next 30 days.

You could inform them that you will go to http://www.dealerrater.com/ and give them the rating they deserve.

You could contact head office in Canada and ask to speak to someone about your 'experience'. If this fails, see if there is a group above the Canadian Hyundai organization and contact them.

You would have needed to have the problem of the service light written down on your bill of sale in order to undertake legal actions. Same thing with the rims. Always get everything in writing from now on.

Remember to try to make as much 'noise/advertising' about your purchase experience to as large a crowd as you can reach. No merchant enjoy sustained negative publicity.

Good luck.

P.S. You could also publicize their name and location on this board. And then inform them of what you have done. AFAIK, legally, you are allowed to write anything about merchants you deal with as long as it has happened directly to you. They can threaten you with lawsuit, but they don't have a case. What is important is that you relate events that have happened directly to you and not to a third party.

 

[Delphunkey]

I found this on a website. You may want to look into this further:


The Ontario government has taken steps to provide greater protections for consumers who purchase autobmobiles on the province. As highlighted on the province's website (at http://www.news.ontario.ca/mcs/en/2010/01/improving-protection-for-consumers-buying-cars.html):

"January 12, 2010 10:30 AM

McGuinty Government Strengthens Motor Vehicle Sales Sector
Ontario is providing consumers with improved protections when they buy or lease new and used cars.

The province's new Motor Vehicle Dealers Act, 2002 (MVDA) that came into force on January 1, 2010, requires dealers to:

■Disclose a vehicle's true condition and history before consumers sign contracts.
■Adopt "all-inclusive pricing" when advertising new and used vehicles, including freight, dealer preparation and other miscellaneous charges.

Consumers will also be able to cancel a contract within 90 days if a dealer fails to disclose certain key items such as accurate odometer-readings, the correct year or model, and the previous use of the vehicle.

Improved protection from the Motor Vehicle Dealers Compensation Fund, with an increase from $15,000 to $45,000 in coverage, will also allow consumers to recover deposits should a dealership goes out of business.

The Motor Vehicle Dealers Act, 2002 is administered by the Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council (OMVIC) on behalf of the Ontario government. "

This is good news for consumers and a welcome addition to the arsenal of consumer protection laws in the province.

Kathryn M. Bullon
Associate Legal Education Coordinator,
Community Law School"

I hope it helps!

 

[Johnboy2k10]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Alberta so it's not applicable here. This is from Northstar Hyundai in Edmonton. I had heard very good things about them, but I am being let down.

The kid in the shuttle said they sold 200 cars in March. Perhaps they are less interested in customer service as a result of their success?

 

[waveman]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Alberta so it's not applicable here. This is from Northstar Hyundai in Edmonton. I had heard very good things about them, but I am being let down.

The kid in the shuttle said they sold 200 cars in March. Perhaps they are less interested in customer service as a result of their success?

As others have posted, you have several options. However, the key question is "What did you have in writing?" The more detailed and specific that is, the better off you'll be.

 

[ifonline]

First, you didn't buy a new car. You bought a used car. I certainly hope you negotiated for significantly less than new car retail price on the vehicle you purchased, but my gut tells me that you didn't. Second, by your own admission you indicated that you bought "paint protection." That tells me that you don't know how to negotiate with auto dealers (and answers my first concern), as "paint protection" is nothing but a way to gouge the customer for more money. I assume you don't realize that paint sealant (and rust protection, etc.) is all applied at the factory, and if the dealer charges you to have that junk "applied", you are giving them money for doing absolutely nothing. Third, as was touched on by another post, I assume you have nothing in writing. If you don't, then you're screwed. It's your word against theirs, and you won't win.

Sounds like you need to chalk this up to a learning experience, and if you ever decide to buy a vehicle in the future, take someone with you that knows what they're doing when buying a car. You never, ever buy anything from an auto dealer without the negotiations in writing, and you never, ever go into the negotiations with the attitude that "I have to buy this car." Instead, you approach the negotiations with the attitude that "I don't need this car and can walk away at any time."

It seems to me that you were so excited to buy the car that you were blinded to the reality of the deal. I mean... you bought a car with 5000 miles on it with the check engine light on! *shakes head* Not a good plan.

And what is "command start" anyway? That's not a Hyundai product.

 

[dg_moore]

..."paint protection" is nothing but a way to gouge the customer for more money....

As the Car Talk guys say, paint protection is an excellent product (for the dealer). It's invisible, and the customer has no way of knowing if it has been applied, let alone whether it actually does anything.

 

[JustMe]

Thanks for the info. I'm in Alberta so it's not applicable here. This is from Northstar Hyundai in Edmonton. I had heard very good things about them, but I am being let down.

The kid in the shuttle said they sold 200 cars in March. Perhaps they are less interested in customer service as a result of their success?

Thanks for posting the dealer's name. You should have done more research about the dealer. At http://www.dealerrater.com/dealer/Northstar-Hyundai-review-20193/ there are 3 reviews and it is seems apparent this is not a good dealer to deal with. Good luck.

P.S. I hope people will keep posting their good and bad experiences with whatever dealer you are going to. I know some of the reviews are fake, like the super duper positive ones at one Ontario dealer.

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[MichaelOne]

It's been a long time since I've driven in the north, but why do you need 4 snow tires?

 

[ifonline]

As the Car Talk guys say, paint protection is an excellent product (for the dealer). It's invisible, and the customer has no way of knowing if it has been applied, let alone whether it actually does anything.

Exactly. Never, ever pay for the following:

- Scotchgard
- Paint sealant
- Rustproofing, including underbody rust protection (Unless, of course, you want holes drilled in your car.)
- Doc fee (This one is not always easy to get around, but think about it... you are being asked to pay someone $500 + to put your info in a computer and print out some forms. As I always tell them, I want to meet the person that makes $500 an hour to do that.)
- VIN etching

Never pay sticker for a car. Never pay retail for addons (and have them removed if you don't want them). Be prepared to walk away from the deal. Demand to see the invoice, and make sure that you are looking at paperwork that is specific to the vehicle you are interested in purchasing. Know the true dealer cost (which is not invoice... look up "holdback") before walking into the showroom. Research all incentives, especially manufacturer incentives (dealers will collect these themselves many times, so be aware of them and use them in negotiations). Use Edmunds, Kelly, and Consumer Reports to research vehicle cost and negotiation tips.

And above all else, remember that dealers will absolutely lie to you to make a sale, so get everything in writing before you sign your life away.

 

[JustMe]

Decided to start a new thread to warn others before it's too late.

 

[Johnboy2k10]

First, you didn't buy a new car. You bought a used car. I certainly hope you negotiated for significantly less than new car retail price on the vehicle you purchased, but my gut tells me that you didn't. Second, by your own admission you indicated that you bought "paint protection." That tells me that you don't know how to negotiate with auto dealers (and answers my first concern), as "paint protection" is nothing but a way to gouge the customer for more money. I assume you don't realize that paint sealant (and rust protection, etc.) is all applied at the factory, and if the dealer charges you to have that junk "applied", you are giving them money for doing absolutely nothing. Third, as was touched on by another post, I assume you have nothing in writing. If you don't, then you're screwed. It's your word against theirs, and you won't win.

Sounds like you need to chalk this up to a learning experience, and if you ever decide to buy a vehicle in the future, take someone with you that knows what they're doing when buying a car. You never, ever buy anything from an auto dealer without the negotiations in writing, and you never, ever go into the negotiations with the attitude that "I have to buy this car." Instead, you approach the negotiations with the attitude that "I don't need this car and can walk away at any time."

It seems to me that you were so excited to buy the car that you were blinded to the reality of the deal. I mean... you bought a car with 5000 miles on it with the check engine light on! *shakes head* Not a good plan.

And what is "command start" anyway? That's not a Hyundai product.

I did negotiate less than the new retail price, however factoring an additional set of rims, tires and command start (it's remote start product - a nice feature to have during brutally cold Canadian winters) it altered the price I was prepared to pay. I will chalk this up to a learning expierience as you mention. I thought I was getting great bang for my buck and was somewhat offsetting the fact that the car had some miles on it. I'll admit in hindsight, I shouldn't have purchased a car with a check engine light on. That seems ridiculous, but I as I mentioned, I had heard great stories of the awesome experiences at this dealer and all the stories of the problem were aligned.

As far as the paint protection or paint sealant goes, I need to stress that this is Canada. We cannot wash our cars during the winter months and they cover the roads in salt and gravel. My previous car was a 300M and the paint definitely didn't maintain it's luster, even with Spring and Fall waxinngs. I do not regret that purchase at all and would do so again. They didn't sell me on that... I purchased it.

It's been a long time since I've driven in the north, but why do you need 4 snow tires?

I highway commute everyday on snow and ice covered roads. It's foolish not to have 4 winter tires here. It's law in most provinces November - March.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

Ive learned never leave a dealership with unresolved issues.. just dont take delivery of the car until all issues are resolved.

 

[ifonline]

I did negotiate less than the new retail price, however factoring an additional set of rims, tires and command start (it's remote start product - a nice feature to have during brutally cold Canadian winters) it altered the price I was prepared to pay. I will chalk this up to a learning expierience as you mention. I thought I was getting great bang for my buck and was somewhat offsetting the fact that the car had some miles on it.

Unless I've missed something, you still don't have the rims or the key fob for the remote starter, so I'm not sure these items can be considered an advantage to you. At this point, do you even know if the vehicle has remote starting capability? I will be surprised if the vehicle has a remote starter installed, and even more surprised if you ever see the rims or remote.

As far as the paint protection or paint sealant goes, I need to stress that this is Canada. We cannot wash our cars during the winter months and they cover the roads in salt and gravel. My previous car was a 300M and the paint definitely didn't maintain it's luster, even with Spring and Fall waxinngs. I do not regret that purchase at all and would do so again. They didn't sell me on that... I purchased it.

And I still say you are wasting your money. The manufacturer preps cars to withstand rain, salt, snow, etc. while they are being built and before they arrive at the dealer. Do you know for sure that the dealer even put anything on your vehicle to "protect" the paint? Ultimately, however, it's your money, so if it makes you feel better, then by all means buy the paint protection.

And by the way, when the salesman told you "Well maybe you'll get a brand new genesis instead of a demo then" I don't believe he was trying to tell you that the dealership might take your demo vehicle back and give you a new one. I think he was trying to tell you that it's your fault for buying a demo.

For future reference, there is something called a We Owe document that you should have had filled out by the salesman. It specifies exactly what the dealer is required to do to close the deal. For example, the We Owe document should have said:

- Four factory rims with winter tires installed to be delivered to customer upon pickup of vehicle
- Command Start remote to be delivered to customer upon pickup of vehicle

...and so on. Do you have a copy of the We Owe document? If so, what does it say?

 

[hazelwood7]

Wat does the paper work and sales slip say? Does it say rims and tires or just tires? Does it say anything about the remote start? So here is my take. Those things are ad ons for the VP and were on the car when you bought it. They are lucky you didn't say take it off! Anyway, my advice is to have them fix the misfire since it's now your car and your problem. After they do that, I would call Hyundai, BBB, your local news about the car dealership ripping you off and whomever else you can complain too. If you don't have it in writing you have nothing.
Chris

 

[Vince2]

From Seatle Genesis :"Ive learned never leave a dealership with unresolved issues.. just dont take delivery of the car until all issues are resolved."

Yep! Yep! Yep! It might sound obvious but please do yourself a favor and follow this one! Some of the best advice ever.

 

[Glashub]

OP, we all make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up about this. In my business I do deals all year long. Some I win in that I get a great deal, most of the time I don't. If you didn't do well on this deal...and it' still to early to call it, then you'll do better on the next. It's hard not to get emotional about a car you like, welcome to the human race. You got yourself a really nice car.

I've learned over the years that everybody acts like they're an expert and that they don't make mistakes or do bad deals. Mostly it’s a front. I wonder how many posters on this thread have always gotten the best of a deal. How many are underwater on their homes or stuck in homes they want to sell but can't. How many have lost a ton of money in stocks?

We all do a lot of bad deals throughout our lives. You're not alone.

They'll fix it up for you. If not, get the GM, and ask him if he has ever thought about the cost of opportunity lost because of bad reviews on Yelp, Google, City Search, Resellerratings.net, and Ripoff Reports. Not that you would do that but ask him how damage would be done to the dealerships brand if word got out that you were mislead? How many potential sales could be lost because of honest but negative reviews. How much revenue could be lost to the dealership because people use the internet to look at dealership reviews? Ask him if he really wants to let a little matter like this ruin years of the dealership working to build goodwill in the community? Then shut up. The person who talks next loses. When he replies, then you respond with the demand that promises be kept and things made right because....after all, you're not saying you would do this, but tell him you have internet savvy friends who are very upset about how you've been treated.

 

[Cut-Throat]

OP, we all make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up about this. In my business I do deals all year long. Some I like I won, most of the time I don't. If you didn't do well on this deal...and it' still to early to call it, then you'll do better on the next. It's hard not to get emotional about a car you like, welcome to the human race.

I've learned over the years that everybody acts like they're an expert and that they don't make mistakes or do bad deals. Mostly it’s a front. I wonder how many posters on this thread have always gotten the best of a deal. How many are underwater on their homes or stuck in homes they want to sell but can't. How many have lost a ton of money in stocks?

We all do a lot of bad deals throughout our lives. You're not alone.

They'll fix you up. If not, get the GM, and ask him if he has ever thought about the cost of opportunity lost because of bad reviews on Yelp, Google, and Rip-off Report. Not that you would do that but ask him how many potential sales are lost because of honest but negative reviews. Then shut up. The person who talks next loses. When he replies, then you respond with the demand that promises be kept and things made right because....after all, not saying you would do this, but tell him you have internet savvy friends who are very upset about how you've been treated.

Probably the wisest post on this thread !