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18 inch wheels and tirea for 5.0

Genentec

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I'm really curious to know how much more response and mpg you can get by reducing unsprung wheel weight. I would imagine it will be much more responsive with lighter wheels and thicker tires. I wonder if it will achieve 19 to 20 mpg with the change alone.

yeah it wont look as nice and beefy but the increase in mpg and increase in power and response might make the change worthwhile.
 
I get on average (city/highway split driving) 20mpg with my 2015 5.0 Ultimate. I burn strickly Mobil Super Unleaded fuel and I use ECO mode except for red light hole shots, off and on ramps to the highway and just when you need that extra bit of power in Sport mode.
 
Are you sure smaller wheels will be lighter overall? It seems to me that "tire" could be heavier than "wheel", especially incrementally.
 
Well that's the thing, I'm not sure.

But I have driven the 3.8 base model for about a month and I can tell you that the 18 wheel and tire set up was noticeably quieter, softer and resilient. It was better at dampening road imperfections.

Don't get me wrong, the 5.0 19" set up is still very comfortable and nowhere near what I would consider rough riding.

But given that I know there is a ride difference, I must question if the unsprung weight of smaller wheel and a thicker aspect ratio tire will add even more HP to the wheels, This is assuming the current 19" wheels are cast. I don't think they are forged. It would have to give off at least 3mpg improvement with faster response to make the change worthwhile.

Are you sure smaller wheels will be lighter overall? It seems to me that "tire" could be heavier than "wheel", especially incrementally.
 
I know this is going to be an unpopular answer... or unwanted noise from the peanut gallery... but the idea on consumer cars of getting better performance, or even better mpg for that matter, from a change in tires or wheels or both at the sizes we are all talking about for the purpose of "reducing unsprung weight" is spurious at best.

This concept is a marketing tool for all intents and purposes. In terms of track, straight line or not (and this is a whole other cyclic argument), unsprung weight will simply not start to even be a factor until you start to actually create a vehicle that could take advantage of it, ie, stripped interior, door skins, hood, roof, and fender swapped to plastic or carbon, unstreetable drop, suspension so stiff it is, again, unstreetable, removing ALL accesories and replacing things like pans, covers, oil systems etc., replacing internals with lighter units, block modification for weight, and so on.

With that said, some wheels do "feel" softer than others even with the same shoes, something that was almost universally felt regarding the BBS RC. Forged or cast (regardless of process for each) will make no difference here, weight is weight, and not as critical as some may have you believe. The difference in stock, for example lets say 20" HLTs, in terms of performance, may see an almost immeasurable difference in straight line performance. Any perceived advantage in the twisties will show up due to tires alone, this has more to do with sidewall performance and myriad other very small factors, again, many of which won't be perceptable to the average driver.

With all that being said, forged wheels tend to have better impact and resonant performance, but this is a gross blanket statement, their are a LOT of really good cast wheels out there (think Germany, Poland, Italy, France, Britain...not china). Lastly, before I get off my soapbox, wheels do not affect mileage except in extreme examples (think chinese chrome ghetto 22s tipping the scales at 40lbs or more), this is primarily HOW you drive and tire choice. You get sticky, your mileage will go down, this is fact. You get hard, performance may suffer, but generally rolling resistance is lessened, hence better mileage (for this example lets say Mich PSA+ vs. PSS). The difference in mileage between a 300utqg and a 500 can certainly be measured, but having had both the older AS pilots can't hold a candle to the PSS. Mom has the new PSAs on her 2013 Gen and they are jawdroppingly good. The drawback at the other end of the spectrum is good luck getting more than 15k out of those Super Sports, ain't gonna happen.

So, bottom line, smaller sidewall = "faster" response, generally a "stiffer" ride (this is purely subjective as we know), mileage determined by rolling resistance and driving habits. Bigger sidewall = less "responsive" but a smoother ride (again, subjective). Forget the unsprung weight sales line and focus on your driving style. You want quicker turn in and less sidewall squirm, bigger wheel/smaller sidewall. You want better performance from the wheels you have, look at a better brand of tire and lower utqg. You want to increase mileage at the possible expense of performance, then go for a better "touring" or all season tire 500 and over.

/soapbox
 
I think the marketing gimickry is the other way around. It's the glorification of bigger wheels, not smaller ones.....duh.

there is a difference. I had a 2013 chrysler 300 that went from oem 17inch to oem 20inch and lost 3mpg. went from 23mpg to 20mpg. It was not a fantasy.

and there is a difference of adding weight to the cabin itself vs weight directly at each wheel.

the question is not whether unsprung weight is real or not, question is if going minus 1 on wheel size will actually make a noticeable difference.

I know this is going to be an unpopular answer... or unwanted noise from the peanut gallery... but the idea on consumer cars of getting better performance, or even better mpg for that matter, from a change in tires or wheels or both at the sizes we are all talking about for the purpose of "reducing unsprung weight" is spurious at best.

This concept is a marketing tool for all intents and purposes. In terms of track, straight line or not (and this is a whole other cyclic argument), unsprung weight will simply not start to even be a factor until you start to actually create a vehicle that could take advantage of it, ie, stripped interior, door skins, hood, roof, and fender swapped to plastic or carbon, unstreetable drop, suspension so stiff it is, again, unstreetable, removing ALL accesories and replacing things like pans, covers, oil systems etc., replacing internals with lighter units, block modification for weight, and so on.

With that said, some wheels do "feel" softer than others even with the same shoes, something that was almost universally felt regarding the BBS RC. Forged or cast (regardless of process for each) will make no difference here, weight is weight, and not as critical as some may have you believe. The difference in stock, for example lets say 20" HLTs, in terms of performance, may see an almost immeasurable difference in straight line performance. Any perceived advantage in the twisties will show up due to tires alone, this has more to do with sidewall performance and myriad other very small factors, again, many of which won't be perceptable to the average driver.

With all that being said, forged wheels tend to have better impact and resonant performance, but this is a gross blanket statement, their are a LOT of really good cast wheels out there (think Germany, Poland, Italy, France, Britain...not china). Lastly, before I get off my soapbox, wheels do not affect mileage except in extreme examples (think chinese chrome ghetto 22s tipping the scales at 40lbs or more), this is primarily HOW you drive and tire choice. You get sticky, your mileage will go down, this is fact. You get hard, performance may suffer, but generally rolling resistance is lessened, hence better mileage (for this example lets say Mich PSA+ vs. PSS). The difference in mileage between a 300utqg and a 500 can certainly be measured, but having had both the older AS pilots can't hold a candle to the PSS. Mom has the new PSAs on her 2013 Gen and they are jawdroppingly good. The drawback at the other end of the spectrum is good luck getting more than 15k out of those Super Sports, ain't gonna happen.

So, bottom line, smaller sidewall = "faster" response, generally a "stiffer" ride (this is purely subjective as we know), mileage determined by rolling resistance and driving habits. Bigger sidewall = less "responsive" but a smoother ride (again, subjective). Forget the unsprung weight sales line and focus on your driving style. You want quicker turn in and less sidewall squirm, bigger wheel/smaller sidewall. You want better performance from the wheels you have, look at a better brand of tire and lower utqg. You want to increase mileage at the possible expense of performance, then go for a better "touring" or all season tire 500 and over.

/soapbox
 
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I think the marketing gimickry is the other way around. It's the glorification of bigger wheels, not smaller ones.....duh.

there is a difference. I had a 2013 chrysler 300 that went from oem 17inch to oem 20inch and lost 3mpg. went from 23mpg to 20mpg. It was not a fantasy.

and there is a difference of adding weight to the cabin itself vs weight directly at each wheel.

the question is not whether unsprung weight is real or not, question is if going minus 1 on wheel size will actually make a noticeable difference.


:confused: I think you may have misunderstood me. Not sure what you mean by 'duh', the big forged wheels mfrs are often the ones babbling about unsprung weight, whether in an 18x10 or a 14x8. Diameter and weight are not related in a linear fashion. I never said bigger wheels couldn't affect mileage and in your case with the 300 I can almost guarantee you were running a diameter greater than stock, which will always have an effect, as would the opposite. Additionally I was referring to unsprung mass having a performance effect withOUT weight reduction, hence, in this example, no change.



So simply put, if all your factors are equal, ie weight, location of weight by diameter, full diameter, track width, rolling resistance, and road conditions, then no, it will not make a noticeable difference.
 
Another issue. I do not think the 18" wheels will fit over the larger brakes on the V8 Genesis. You better verify this before switching.

I do not believe that the MPG difference will be significant, but I do not have facts to back this up, just a gut feel. The overall diameter should remain the same.
 
I do not think the 18" wheels will fit over the larger brakes on the V8 Genesis.

I was under the impression that the front calipers on the Genesis sedan were identical, ie, 3.8 and 5.0 use the same caliper. Is this not the case?



edit - 14.2" rotor yes?
 
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