2010 Suspension Owner Review

[Sayantsi]

The money is already in the very nicely designed multi-link suspension of the Genesis sedan. That is why it is so sad that the tuning is all wrong. For no more money you could have a vehicle that drives like a BMW, if Hyundai had just done a better job tuning the spring and shock rates.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2009/09/2009-hyundai-genesis-v6-sedan-suspension-walkaround.html

I think "tuning is all wrong" is a bit extreme of a statement to make. Its your opinion that the suspension could be better and it could be more BMW-like; I just want to point that out. I'm all for opinions, I just want to make a clear delineation between what people think and what people know - too often people are stating things as fact when they are actually personal opinions, and people tend to get these confused. It makes for muddled discussions and hurt feelings.

 

[Disaster]

I think "tuning is all wrong" is a bit extreme of a statement to make. Its your opinion that the suspension could be better and it could be more BMW-like; I just want to point that out. I'm all for opinions, I just want to make a clear delineation between what people think and what people know - too often people are stating things as fact when they are actually personal opinions, and people tend to get these confused. It makes for muddled discussions and hurt feelings.

"Tuning is all wrong" was a too extreme. I agree with you there.

However I don't agree with you that the early suspension issues are opinions.

It was not optimized properly, as proven by the people who experienced their cars porpoising over some roads.

This is clearly a fact, and not an opinion. Unless you believe it is OK for cars to have problems over these road surfaces or believe that these people were lying.

It is also obvious to people who have worked on suspensions and have a background in dynamics and damping that there is a damping issue.

I would agree people who aren't tuned to the suspension being underdamped, and don't drive on roads that cause it to really act up, might overlook it. They might be of the opinion it is fine...and it is, for them.

My real point was the money is already in the suspension, with the expensive alloy 5 link suspension, stiff body and "amplified selective dampers" and it was a shame the tuning wasn't quite up to snuf out the gate because that wouldn't have added any cost...just better performance for free.

 

[Sayantsi]

I have a car with an early suspension, and in my opinion, the car drives great. I don't see how that can translate into a fact that all early sedans drive great - I think some people here would beg to differ with that "fact", in fact.

Damping isn't the issue, its how the damping works versus how you think it should work that is the issue. Hyundai did spend a lot of R&D on the suspension, it even flew in Sachs engineers from Germany to do the design and testing - the issue is, some people don't like the final design.

I remember people complaining about the original Lexus GS400 being too firm, or bouncy as well. The original GS was an interesting car. It was the first "sport sedan" from Lexus, and had a sport-tuned suspension to go along with it, but most Lexus buyers were used to the softer SC, LS and ES models. Toyota eventually added an adjustable suspension and the complaining stopped, and I'd bet Hyundai will do the same eventually. The (real) fact is, people have different preferences for ride quality and what they expect out of a $30k to $45k car. Its hard to meet all those expectations with one suspension setting.

 

[hazelwood7]

I have a car with an early suspension, and in my opinion, the car drives great. I don't see how that can translate into a fact that all early sedans drive great - I think some people here would beg to differ with that "fact", in fact.

Damping isn't the issue, its how the damping works versus how you think it should work that is the issue. Hyundai did spend a lot of R&D on the suspension, it even flew in Sachs engineers from Germany to do the design and testing - the issue is, some people don't like the final design.

I just disagree with your opinion and Hyundai also seems to disagree. They have replaced the springs, shocks, struts and revised the rear sway bar twice. If this was their "final design" why have they made three revisions to the Genesis's suspension? They created a press release touting that they made the changes only to take it down because of a backlash from dealers who had 09's to sell left on the lot. What more do you want from Hyundai to admit they messed up?
Chris

 

[Sayantsi]

Nissan threw out the entire suspension system of the 2009 GT-R for the 2010 model year - does that mean the 09 suspension was wrong? Should 09 owners get free 10 suspensions? Automakers are always changing things, the issue is people take those changes to mean more than they do. I'm sure Hyundai is listening to what owners say, and is adjusting things to make the car better - that is what automakers do. I just don't agree that the original suspension is "wrong". I'm not sure how you can say Hyundai disagrees when it hasn't released any official announcements about the mid year changes and tweaks it is making. Now you're quoting hearsay - dangerous ground.

You didn't like your original suspension so you took action to change it - this is good and what people should do. The question should really be, what do you want from Hyundai?

 

[Disaster]

I have a car with an early suspension, and in my opinion, the car drives great. I don't see how that can translate into a fact that all early sedans drive great - I think some people here would beg to differ with that "fact", in fact.

It doesn't translate into a fact that all early sedans drive great and some people will differ, because they had a different experience than you or are more attuned to how a suspension is supposed to work.

Damping isn't the issue, its how the damping works versus how you think it should work that is the issue. Hyundai did spend a lot of R&D on the suspension, it even flew in Sachs engineers from Germany to do the design and testing - the issue is, some people don't like the final design.

Damping is the simplest explanation of the issue but it is a bit more complicated than that. Ideally you wouldn't just change the damping but I suspect that would be the only thing you would need to change to stop the car from resonating over some excitation frequencies.

Hyundai changed the suspension because they realized there was an issue with it.

There is one point that many of you people on the other side of the argument seem to be missing or dismissing. A suspension can be soft. A suspension can be hard. But, a suspension should never resonate over real world excitation frequencies. It is called critical damping, and any suspension, hard or soft, is designed to be just north of critical damping at all real world frequencies...and certainly not develop resonance. This is not an opinion it is one of the rules of suspension design that all engineers follow.

Here is some interesting reading on the matter, but the bottom line is while no suspension is perfect, any suspension can be designed such that it does not resonate over common input frequencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping

http://www.modified.com/editors/0708_sccp_jay_chen_editorial/index.html

I remember people complaining about the original Lexus GS400 being too firm, or bouncy as well. The original GS was an interesting car. It was the first "sport sedan" from Lexus, and had a sport-tuned suspension to go along with it, but most Lexus buyers were used to the softer SC, LS and ES models. Toyota eventually added an adjustable suspension and the complaining stopped, and I'd bet Hyundai will do the same eventually. The (real) fact is, people have different preferences for ride quality and what they expect out of a $30k to $45k car. Its hard to meet all those expectations with one suspension setting.

I agree that it is difficult to please everyone and in the end many will still find the suspension too hard or too soft. Having said that, I and a few others would just be happy if the suspension settled down faster, and wasn't excited into resonance at certain frequencies. I hope that Hyundai addressed that with the suspension changes employed in 2009 and 2010.

Nissan threw out the entire suspension system of the 2009 GT-R for the 2010 model year - does that mean the 09 suspension was wrong? Should 09 owners get free 10 suspensions? Automakers are always changing things, the issue is people take those changes to mean more than they do.

I'm more inclined to agree with you here, depending on the severity, and a case by case basis. I don't think Hyundai should replace the suspension on my Genesis for free. If it bothers me enough I will do that myself. On the other hand, if a customer could demonstrate a horrible porpoising on a road they regularly traveled I think they should step up and update the car.

 

[nearwater]

Disaster,
I agree with your opinion on how a suspension should be designed.
I felt that my car drove somewhat.. funny when I first got my car, but overtime, I think I got used to how the car handles.
What's interesting is, sometimes the car feels like it's dampening the road imperfections and bumps VERY well. But on some occasions it feels definitely weird, which I think can be described as "bouncy".

Honestly, after driving my car for almost 3 months, I'm not even sure if the suspension is well-tuned or not.
You should definitely see how my car handles over that portion of the road on Long Lake and tell me how different it is from yours.
Still haven't had a chance to go to that part of town as of yet though.

Dan

 

[Disaster]

Disaster,
I agree with your opinion on how a suspension should be designed.
I felt that my car drove somewhat.. funny when I first got my car, but overtime, I think I got used to how the car handles.
What's interesting is, sometimes the car feels like it's dampening the road imperfections and bumps VERY well. But on some occasions it feels definitely weird, which I think can be described as "bouncy".

Honestly, after driving my car for almost 3 months, I'm not even sure if the suspension is well-tuned or not.
You should definitely see how my car handles over that portion of the road on Long Lake and tell me how different it is from yours.
Still haven't had a chance to go to that part of town as of yet though.

Dan

You do get used to it. It doesn't usually bother me. However, now and again I hit a surface that really gets it excited and I think...woe, it shouldn't be doing that. From that stand point, I can live with it. But, I do plan on upgrading the suspension down the road.

I agree, we need to get together for some side by side drives. We should also keep our eyes/butts alert for really bad streches of road for comparisons.

 

[GripperDon]

I am glad Hyundai did that for me and decided that the suspension tuning could be better and made changes to it and were so proud of themselves they issued a press release announcing the redesigned and improved suspension.

Now if they would start to understand the creation of a luxury brand requires taking care of past customers not just new ones they might make it. We are not talking about adding air cooled seats to the passenger side for the next model but the basis of the car, it's connection to the road, the suspension system.

Fix them all not just new ones, thats the mark of a quality builder and is what build brand loyality. ( PS is not like they sold hundred of thousands of the things anyway)

 

[YEH]

^ While it's unfortunate that your Genesis has the suspension issues and it would be nice on Hyundai's part if they did a retrofit on your car, let's not go overboard and think that automakers, whether a luxury brand or not, haven't done the same thing (basically, ignore the problem).

The BMW X3 was/is notorious for having a rough, bouncy ride.

Some comments from Edmunds...

Another reviewer wrote the following. There is too much hyperbole in it but the sentiment of discomfort is the same.

"On even the smoothest pavement, the X3 can find a grain of sand, run over it and send a searing jolt down your spine, spill your hot coffee on you and make you hit your head on the roof. It takes the X3 a mere second to inflict all this misery."

Some one else said it induced green gills.

25 mph, residential zone, regular paved streets, no visible imperfections like manhole covers or potholes or stray pieces of tar.

babum babum babum babum babum babum babum babum babum....

Note the X3 is vibrating - hard to get the exact sensation into words - for some reason all its own.

As far as I understand this:

Sporty suspension = tightly sprung

The wheels stay in good contact with the road and lack of springingness means that where the wheels go the car's cabin goes. If a wheel goes down into a pothole, the cabin goes down into the pothole instead.

Bounciness/undulation/bucking = insufficient damping or dampening

When the springs begin to bounce from an imperfection in the road, the dampening structures including the shock absorbers are failing to dissipate the energy in the springs causing the car to continue to bounce. If the shocks are worn, I should be able to pull on the roof rails of the car, get it to rock and it should continue rocking.

Someone said to push on the door panels but I think pulling the roof rail (gently) accomplishes the same purpose...or not. I don't know.

Has anyone had early dampening or damping problems on their X3 and did replacing any components help?

Virbating or vibrating is on topic.

Pitching, swaying, rocking, rolling, bouncing, undulation, virbating and vibrating. Does anyone know how someone goes about softening a suspension without rebuilding a car from the bottom up?

According to the dealer all of the ride issues (noise, bounciness, roughness, etc.) are due to the AWD. Who knew?

Whack forehead.

A whole afternoon spent being jostled and bounced all over the place. It may be getting worse.

That would make sense if something is off in the suspension. It is EXHAUSTING.

Despite many more complaints for the X3, BMW did nothing for unsatisfied owners.

BMW, however, did change the suspension in either the 2nd or 3rd year of production but apparently, people are still having issues.

An early review from the New York Times talking about the X3's ride.

"Most S.U.V.'s have a supple suspension designed to accommodate less than perfect road surfaces, but when a rough surface pummels the X3, it fights back. With the stiff, unyielding suspension, striking a pothole at 30 m.p.h. caused the wheels and tires to rebound so severely that the BMW lost its composure and became hard to control."

So what the heck did they do in 2005 and 2007 that ended up in my 2009?

What do they do when they have a 'stiff' suspension that is unacceptable to the buying public? BMW didn't rebuild the car from the ground up, this is for the new model coming up next year. That, of course, leaves the people who bought this generation of X3 holding the bag on their design flaws.

So, what did they do? I can't find any details of what specifically they did. Did they not do anything and this is really the original mess or did they do something and go TOO FAR?

And it's not just BMW, people have had issues w/ the suspension/ride on the Acura TSX and TL and it took a class action lawsuit for Lexus and Acura to address engine sludge and transmission issues, respectively.

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[Mark_888]

While it's unfortunate that your Genesis has the suspension issues and it would be nice on Hyundai's part if they did a retrofit on your car, let's not go overboard and think that automakers, whether a luxury brand or not, haven't done the same thing (basically, ignore the problem).

How about if Hyundai provided an upgrade kit to retrofit the 2009 suspension to 2010 specs, and made it available (through its dealer network) to customers who are willing to pay for it themselves?

Is that asking too much?

 

[sandy]

How about if Hyundai provided an upgrade kit to retrofit the 2009 suspension to 2010 specs, and made it available (through its dealer network) to customers who are willing to pay for it themselves?

Is that asking too much?

Some people who have driven both the 2010 and 2009 didn't notice any difference. So maybe Hyundai assumes that since the changes are so subtle, they would wind up with even more people complaining; it wasn't done right, the new parts were faulty, it cost too much, it's worse now than it was etc

 

[Mark_888]

Some people who have driven both the 2010 and 2009 didn't notice any difference. So maybe Hyundai assumes that since the changes are so subtle, they would wind up with even more people complaining; it wasn't done right, the new parts were faulty, it cost too much, it's worse now than it was etc

There was a mid-year correction to the 2009, so some late model year 2009 owners may not notice as much of a difference, but early model 2009 owners would (except those who are not being objective for whatever reason). The majority of people who have driven both have noticed a definite improvement, although the suspension is still quite firm.

All your other concerns would apply to any repair. Dealers are in the business of repairing cars to make a profit, so that seems a bit far-fetched that they are afraid of messing it up. Replacing the springs and shocks (any maybe sway bar) is not that difficult for a dealer.

The real reason is probably that:

• HMA is afraid of a lawsuit if they admit there is a problem, and/or
• Dealers complained very loudly even when HMA advertised the improved 2010 suspension because of the number of 2009 models still unsold when the 2010 was introduced. One can still find a 2009 rather easily.

 

[Bocatrip]

I have not driven a 2009 but I can say in all honesty the 2010 suspension is far from a great ride. Considering there is still room for improvement, I don't see why those with the early 2009s would want to go through the expense and trouble to get something that is still not right.

 

[Mark_888]

I have not driven a 2009 but I can say in all honesty the 2010 suspension is far from a great ride. Considering there is still room for improvement, I don't see why those with the early 2009s would want to go through the expense and trouble to get something that is still not right.

Like you said, you have not driven the early 2009 models.

 

[GripperDon]

My ride ratings:

Early 09 = Bad

Late 09 = Poor

2010 after all changes = Still not up to the mark

It all stems from taking a suspension designed for a forgiving set of design rules imposed by the adjustable , Air cushion system and then fitting it with the more rigid parameters of conventional springs and shocks. Result, well you can see.

Some folks are tuned to measuring acoustic systems and some to engine performance, others to transmissions and still others to suspension system performance. So no all feel the same about their cars as a result of design implementation installed and individual sensitives.

 

[Matt Z]

Once again this is all subjective... I'm happy with my ride!

 

[Bocatrip]

My ride ratings:

Early 09 = Bad

Late 09 = Poor

2010 after all changes = Still not up to the mark

It all stems from taking a suspension designed for a forgiving set of design rules imposed by the adjustable , Air cushion system and then fitting it with the more rigid parameters of conventional springs and shocks. Result, well you can see.

Some folks are tuned to measuring acoustic systems and some to engine performance, others to transmissions and still others to suspension system performance. So no all feel the same about their cars as a result of design implementation installed and individual sensitives.

For a car that has been out for almost 2 years, it seems that Hyundai should have made more headway with these issues. Maybe they are planning a more aggressive approach for 2011 and are not making any mention of it for obvious reasons. Am I being too optimistic?

 

[nearwater]

Makes me wonder: how come all the journalists gave the "early 2009" models a glowing review?

Dan

 

[Mark_888]

Makes me wonder: how come all the journalists gave the "early 2009" models a glowing review?

Dan

Many of them mentioned suspension problems:

• Car and Driver
• Wall Street Journal
• Consumer Reports
• Edmunds
• etc.

Here is an example, a video review from then editor-in-chief for Car and Driver (known for preferring cars that have a very firm ride):
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jpYDtAiWY&feature=PlayList&p=4E695A21833CC115&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=1"]YouTube- 2009 Hyundai Genesis Sedan - Car and Driver[/nomedia]

But even with the suspension issue, the 2009 Genesis is still an amazing car for the price. And the suspension issues only show up on certain roads, so it is easy to overlook in the short term.