2015 Genesis-First Drive

[Mark_888]

I agree on the cost and weight, however not necesarliy on reduced vehicle perfomance. Most tests of similar cars with AWD can have better performance stats, including zero to sixty, track speed and emergency manuevering.

I can understand better slalom times and better emergency handling, but not sure how 0-60 times can be better due to the extra weight of AWD mechanicals. The only way that could happen would be different engine tuning or different transmission shifting.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

I can understand better slalom times and better emergency handling, but not sure how 0-60 times can be better due to the extra weight of AWD mechanicals. The only way that could happen would be different engine tuning or different transmission shifting.

It would be somewhat dependent on tires and launch techniques, but traction will be better for the 0-60s and probably enough to offset the weight penalty.

 

[ksoze]

I can understand better slalom times and better emergency handling, but not sure how 0-60 times can be better due to the extra weight of AWD mechanicals. The only way that could happen would be different engine tuning or different transmission shifting.

The additonal traction at launch from 4 wheels off-sets any weight difference, using the same engine/transmission. Today's compact AWD systems are not the 4WD truck setups from yesteryear. The ability to transfer traction to the wheel in need instantly can effect performance where it is won and lost - where the tire meets the ground. There is a reason Audi was killing it back in the day in motorsports.

 

[427435]

Contemporary AWD systems do not have the issues and maintenance which many still perceive, based on earlier incarnations. The benefits can outweigh the option cost in better performance, wet grip and safety. The maintenance is essentially no different than a 2WD car and many in non-snow belt regions have moved to AWD for its other benefits.

More parts equal more problems, plain and simple. As for benefits, more grip doesn't often equal more safety. I commuted 65 miles one way on Minnesota winter highways for my last 10 years of employment (the last 2 in a rear wheel drive Mercury Marauder). On slippery, snowy days, most of the vehicles in the ditch were 4WD or AWD vehicles who felt "comfortable" in the conditions.

As for the Marauder, I put Blizzacks on it in the winter. If my my wife and I had to go somewhere during "winter" conditions, I preferred that car over our 4WD Explorer with all-season tires. The Marauder felt much more secure and was much easier to control if it did start sliding.

 

[ksoze]

More parts equal more problems, plain and simple. As for benefits, more grip doesn't often equal more safety.

Aside from your real world experiences, the AWD systems in these cars are not a source of more problems, at least as far as most reliable consumer reporting. While the addtional cost may not be an option for many, the previous role of AWD to turn a car into an SUV is in the past. The systems today are lighter, essentially maintenance free and do provide better traction (in all weather),which translates to better safety. My previous Infiniti G35Xs had better performance stats and was no less reliable or costly to maintain than the 2WD models.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Aside from your real world experiences, the AWD systems in these cars are not a source of more problems, at least as far as most reliable consumer reporting. While the addtional cost may not be an option for many, the previous role of AWD to turn a car into an SUV is in the past. The systems today are lighter, essentially maintenance free and do provide better traction (in all weather),which translates to better safety. My previous Infiniti G35Xs had better performance stats and was no less reliable or costly to maintain than the 2WD models.

Yes, I have owned an AWD car for the last 7 seven years and there is no extra maint or problems because of this.

This line of thinking is similar to the 1970s when people did not want to own cars with Power door locks, power windows and all those gadgets, because they would break down. And back then, they did break down. In fact almost everything broke down! But, today, maint issues on car features is pretty much non-existent.

 

[427435]

There may not be more maintenance on a new car, but when you drive a car to 200,000 miles, as I usually do, get back to me. There are more bearings, more universal joints, more gears, more electronics, etc. etc. They all have a service life and can all fail.


And in real world driving, there are few benefits.

 

[Mark_888]

Since it will take years in order to gather statistical information about the reliability of the Genesis HTRAC AWD system, I propose that we settle this now by a duel.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

More parts equal more problems, plain and simple. As for benefits, more grip doesn't often equal more safety. I commuted 65 miles one way on Minnesota winter highways for my last 10 years of employment (the last 2 in a rear wheel drive Mercury Marauder). On slippery, snowy days, most of the vehicles in the ditch were 4WD or AWD vehicles who felt "comfortable" in the conditions.

As to your comment about more parts = more problems, I would agree up to a point. Depends on the design and quality of car. There is a huge number of 200K+ AWD Subarus on the road with no AWD repair or replacement histories. However, I doubt you would make any statements about drivability or safety if you had recently driven a high-end AWD car under extreme conditions. For die hard, highly skilled drivers, the advantages if AWD are minimal, if any. However for most people of average or sub-average skill, the advantages of AWD are enormous. Modern AWD systems work so well, people have no idea how many corrections/adjustments are going on.

Idiots or people who don't understand basic tire-patch physics are exempt from all this. Nothing will help them. The SUVs and AWD pickups we see on slippery Minnesota roads usually fit into that category.

 

[427435]

The problem with AWD for the average driver is that it allows them to accelerate and drive faster in adverse conditions. It does nothing to help them get stopped quicker.

Being able to accelerate quicker during slippery conditions in city traffic does nothing either------------unless you are the first one stopped at a red light. After that, you can't accelerate any faster than the car in front of you.

Blizzacks on a rear drive car get you around fine, stop better, and steer better than an AWD with all-season tires. And they don't cost you any mpg and there's less to fail.

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[ksoze]

Hyundai's decsion to add HTRAC to this line is indicative of buyers desire for AWD vehicles, regardless of geography or weather need. The competitors in the cross hairs of the Genesis offer AWD versions and Hyundai's decsion to option it now on this model will help increase sales.

They clearly however will not be getting a sale from at least one person here

 

[Mark_888]

Hyundai's decsion to add HTRAC to this line is indicative of buyers desire for AWD vehicles, regardless of geography or weather need. The competitors in the cross hairs of the Genesis offer AWD versions and Hyundai's decsion to option it now on this model will help increase sales.

They clearly however will not be getting a sale from at least one person here

I think it was more because of the Genesis being RWD. It were a FWD car, I am not sure we would be seeing AWD on the Genesis.

 

[427435]

Hyundai's decsion to add HTRAC to this line is indicative of buyers desire for AWD vehicles, regardless of geography or weather need. The competitors in the cross hairs of the Genesis offer AWD versions and Hyundai's decsion to option it now on this model will help increase sales.

They clearly however will not be getting a sale from at least one person here

I understand why they are doing it-------------there are a lot of people out there that want the latest and greatest, if for no reason other than water cooler bravado.

 

[shagnat]

I agree on the cost and weight, however not necesarliy on reduced vehicle perfomance. Most tests of similar cars with AWD can have better performance stats, including zero to sixty, track speed and emergency manuevering.

ksoze, I agree, but the biggest question about performance is: How much difference (if any) would matter to a daily-driver?

Peeps on here seem to do nothing but use a stopwatch while driving their cars to work, play, and entertainment venues.

So what if you lose 1/10 or even 2/10 in zero to 60????????? What if top end drops 3mph, so what?????????? Who cares and why would it even matter on a commute to work, dinner, or the children's soccer game??????????

I hope more people drive their cars in the above mentioned fashion than using a stopwatch to see if they lost a tad of performance that wouldn't matter anyway. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ksoze]

ksoze, I agree, but the biggest question about performance is: How much difference (if any) would matter to a daily-driver?

The benefit to AWD can also play a role in assisting with things like accident avoidance manuvering, rain stability and traction loss on loose gravel on one wheel. The HTRAC system is not simply a 4-wheel drive system but a pretty complex using proven technology which can adjust traction to each wheel on the fly. I agree the benefit in 0-60 times will mostly be useful in marketing - the R-Spec's acceleration was compared to some fairly strong players and the potential extra tenths of a seciond AWD could create more marheting fodder.

I am not an AWD bigot only owning one pervious AWD car, but only piped in here becuase there was some outdated negatives being brought up. I also think it is a wise move by Hyundai as they carve deeper into the competiton.

 

[shagnat]

The benefit to AWD can also play a role in assisting with things like accident avoidance manuvering, rain stability and traction loss on loose gravel on one wheel. The HTRAC system is not simply a 4-wheel drive system but a pretty complex using proven technology which can adjust traction to each wheel on the fly. I agree the benefit in 0-60 times will mostly be useful in marketing - the R-Spec's acceleration was compared to some fairly strong players and the potential extra tenths of a seciond AWD could create more marheting fodder.

I am not an AWD bigot only owning one pervious AWD car, but only piped in here becuase there was some outdated negatives being brought up. I also think it is a wise move by Hyundai as they carve deeper into the competiton.

Oh, I fully agree with the benefits of AWD. Sorry if it sounded differently. I was actually referring to the peeps who talk about the "negative" impact of AWD, not with the real benefits of AWD.
Genny on!!

 

[427435]

The benefit to AWD can also play a role in assisting with things like accident avoidance manuvering, rain stability and traction loss on loose gravel on one wheel. The HTRAC system is not simply a 4-wheel drive system but a pretty complex using proven technology which can adjust traction to each wheel on the fly. I agree the benefit in 0-60 times will mostly be useful in marketing - the R-Spec's acceleration was compared to some fairly strong players and the potential extra tenths of a seciond AWD could create more marheting fodder.

I am not an AWD bigot only owning one pervious AWD car, but only piped in here becuase there was some outdated negatives being brought up. I also think it is a wise move by Hyundai as they carve deeper into the competiton.

Accident avoidance???????? That's marketing speak. In the real world, there are basically 2 ways-----hitting the brakes or turning sharply. AWD does nothing for you when braking and nothing for turning on normal roads.

It might help you to turn in the rain if you are driving over your head but, if you are driving over your head, you are probably toast anyway.

Yup, you can tear up a gravel road like a rally driver on your way to work (or the theater)---------that's got to be worth something.

Check the vehicles I have------I know what all 4 wheels being driven can do (and what they won't do).

 

[ksoze]

Check the vehicles I have------I know what all 4 wheels being driven can do (and what they won't do).

If that list actually contained an AWD car, it might have had some bearing on the conversation. (The Control-Trac 4WD system in the SUV from 10 years ago does not count).

I think this side debate has run its course and is out of traction. I also suspect Hyundai will ilkely disregard your disdain for AWD and offer it anyway. Happy motoring!

 

[427435]

If that list actually contained an AWD car, it might have had some bearing on the conversation. (The Control-Trac 4WD system in the SUV from 10 years ago does not count).

I think this side debate has run its course and is out of traction. I also suspect Hyundai will ilkely disregard your disdain for AWD and offer it anyway. Happy motoring!

I agree that Hyundai will be offering AWD and I understand why.

The Explorer gives you the advantages of 4WD when you need it, without the disadvantages of AWD. When on deep snow surfaces, you can engage it (on the fly) and obtain whatever benefits available. On icy roads, I leave it off. When I lift my foot off the throttle, I don't want decelerating forces on the front wheels----------I want them for steering.

 

[PokerMunkee]

I'm now interested in the Genesis now that it has AWD. If price is ridiculous, I'll stick to a Taurus SHO. I miss AWD and next car will have it. Also hoping the '15 Subaru Legacy is a home run, would save me quite a bit of money.

Have you guys driven Blizzaks for a winter season? The roads are snow packed maybe 10% of the 8 months of fall/winter here in the mountains. That means I'm driving 90% of the time on dry pavement. No thanks. The soft sidewalls make driving spirited dangerous. I'll take an advance AWD system and awesome all-seasons any day.

The '15 Genesis looks awesome. The Fusion just looks weird. The Genesis did it right.