Anyone concern with the Genesis Low Sales Figures

[crupp]

We are working towards a solution to solve this issue specifically around the suspension. However there is no room for profanity squarley directed at another member, period. This is why Kaberle was suspended

Not sure why we would suspend you for stating a well articulated opinion?

 

[scottdk]

I, also, pretty much agree with kaberle, QCTLG, Asus999.

Mark_888 comes across overly strong a good chunk of the time, but he's also a source of some very good information. kaberle's comments are probably a little harsh for an internet message board that could have minors reading it, etc, but I understand where he's coming from. Mark_888 is definitely opinionated.


As for the suspension thing... the whole thing has gotten old. I don't know if this is "the" answer, but I would be all for the moderators setting aside one or two sticky-ed topics just for the suspension. Outside those topics, any discussion of the suspension whatsoever would be cause for a warning (first time), then maybe some sort of "punishment" in the case of repeat offenders. Just an idea.

It is still a topic worthy of discussion, and I wouldn't want to detract from any of that, but I think many on this board would like to see other threads that are fundamentally unrelated to the suspension stay that way. It might also decrease tension a bit around here.

Yes I could agree with you also. I do feel Mark has added value to the forum in some instances, but I feel that everyone who is a part of this forum adds value.

On the other hand, I find that Mark and myself have the same join date/month and I'm sure that his insane 1,100+ posts since January have added no more value than someone with 20 posts or 500 posts.

 

[sandy]

Kaberle has been given a ten day suspension! Let this serve notice that we are going to take this type of behavior seriously and WILL NOT tolerate this any longer. To be clear he was suspended due to directing profanity at another member.


After 3 infractions a member is removed for good.

You have treated the symptom, not the cause. Like shooting the messenger. Think about it.

 

[Sayantsi]

You have treated the symptom, not the cause. Like shooting the messenger. Think about it.

I agree - there's a reason people like Kaberle are getting upset, and that is what needs to be treated. Its one thing to air a complaint, but to interject that complaint everywhere possible should not be acceptable imo.

 

[Sayantsi]

Crupp, it is a crying shame that we have a couple of members (do I need to name them?) who are responsible for considerable ill will among members here and instigating responses/reactions as well, for which you are punishing Kaberle.
...

Please take action now to mend this site! This site should be a help to new and prospective Genesis owners.....not a pulpit for the one note samba from these [two] individuals.

If you feel that I should be suspended, sobeit.

I agree - its hard to have an open forum when its continually hijacked by a couple people with personal issues with their cars.

 

[QCTLG]

I agree - its hard to have an open forum when its continually hijacked by a couple people with personal issues with their cars.

The most unfortunate thing about this is IT WON'T STOP.
Some have now gone to other threads and are now being sarcastic.

One thing's for sure...I won't start a new thread here cause I know where it will go.

I really feel sorry for Kaberle...It had to be said and because of it we know that something will finally be done (or at least it is being addressed) about this suspension issue that a handful of people have.

Now let's all embrace ourselves for more comments soon.

Not from me cause...I LOVE MY GENIE!

Regards,

PS Am looking forward to Kaberle's return.

 

[dataguy]

Welcome to car forums. Welcome to the internet. It's the new religion. Most people write things they wouldn't have guts to say to someone's face. Once you embrace those truths, you'll sleep much better at night.

In Kaberle's case, it was the direct, ad hominem attack that drew the suspension. And it woudn't be the first time that someone was egged on and gets tagged for the response.

I work with (and for) people who are masterful at creating chaos around them without appearing chaotic. My only advice is that you'll never get those people to change, and you're likely to get hurt if you allow yourself to get sucked in.

As one of my favorite computers said once, "Interesting game. The only way to win is not to play."

 

[Sayantsi]

Yes, in the end, Kaberle did actively break a rule, so the result is expected.

You can't stop people from making asinine posts, but you can see the trends. Some people have developed a reputation for being passively aggressive in their propaganda efforts and have little credibility for it.

 

[zedbyers]

maybe oneday , but not anytime soon.....

 

[Yama1yzf]

Wow......i feel like I went to a fight and an internet forum broke out.........thought the idea was to share experiences and help make you feel good about your purchase / lease? Oh well, back to the topic.

I agree with others that the sales figures should not be cause for concern. The Genesis was to show the world that Hyundai could compete at this level and build a world class car priced $$$$thousands below the competition. Don't think it was ever made to be a volume seller. The halo effect so to speak. And coupes are not big sellers to begin with. A double wammy for the coupe is the Camaro, which is priced right around the 2.0T but has a 306HP V6 as a base engine and IMO looks cooler.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[JayJay]

I really have no idea whats going on in this thread the last few pages, but I wanted to echo some of the comments. I think that Hyundai sold WAY more than they expected, in fact I think there are articles from Hyundai about it. The way the economy is now, its incredible that Hyundai has made as big of a splash as it did. If someone is going to spend 40k on a car right now, its unlikely they are going to go with a brand they do not trust. Acura should be shaking in their boots.. p.s The new TL design is DAMNNN ugly.

 

[Hghwy52]

Sales of the sedan are doing much better than the coupe - and since the sedan goes after a more upscale market than than the coupe, I don't think the problem is the dealership/brand.

After looking at other sales figures for Sept., I am more more confident of the continued success of the Genesis. But I do think the Hyundai brand is a drag on sales. A recent New York Times article says that some Genesis are sold to business owners who want to show that "they, too, are cutting back". The same article says that 30% of Americans would consider buying a Hyundai which, while triple the the number from five years ago, is still pretty low.

I've tried to find demographic data for Hyundai/Genesis buyers but could not. I tend to think that if Genesis buyers were as upscale as we would hope, that information would have been made known. It certainly was when the Lexus LS came out - and that was before widespread use of the internet.

That the 2011 Sonata may not have a V6 option can't help. I still find that hard to believe. I hope they price it closer to the competition so that it loses the stigma of being bought primarily because it is cheaper than the rest.

 

[Mark_888]

How did get an invite to the chat session? I think in an earlier post you said you didnt remember how you were invited.... I think I would remember how I got invited into a meeting with hyundai CEO.. You seem to drop this line quite often as if its soo important in the grand scheme of things..u have provided no proof of this discussion.. could be all hearsay as far as i'm concerned.. for the record, you are the one that is most obsessed with the Genesis Suspension, thats why greater than 90% of your post is suspension related..
I will wait for your response, because I know you LOVE to argue the Genesis Suspension... seems to be the only reason you visit this site...

I received an email invitation to join the Hyundai Think Tank and there just happened to be a chat session scheduled soon after I joined. What I meant was I don't know if all owners were invited to join the Think Tank, or just a random group Hyundai owners.

They have had many chat sessions with various HMA executives and product managers. The chat session with Krafcik was on a first-come basis, and if I recall there were a max of 25-30 participants who could participate in the chat session, but there may have been a few empty slots. It was not just for Genesis owners and any Think Tank member could participate.

The chat session took place in mid February, and I took careful notes of what was said (and I asked some questions of my own). Soon after the session, I posted that the 2010 Genesis would likely have suspension changes based on what John Krafcik said in the chat.

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Mark, one more oppo to bring up the suspension? Nice going!

I know, you were only replying to a question, right? Don't worry, I'm sure the mods are taking notes too.

 

[Mark_888]

It has never been about Mark's right to express his opinion....... It is about Mark's repeated hyjacking of conversations to suit his calling in life which is to repeat over and over his opinion.

1. Despite what some claim, I have posted on many different subjects. One reason for the many posts is I get many questions and some people constantly attack me and I feel it is my right to defend myself (in an acceptable manner).

2. In this thread, I tried to answer a simple question raised by the OP. Yes, it was my opinion. I mentioned that some people are holding off buying the 2009 because they want to wait for the 2010 "improvements." There are a fair number of people on this forum who purchased a 2010 and who have said as much, so I am not making it up.

3. One of my harshest critics in this thread has been Sayantsi, but in this post he essentially says the same thing I said (that many are waiting for the 2010).

People aren't even driving 09s because of the relentless crying by some people here who have baseless arguments other than the fact that they don't like their cars....

4. It was never my intention to argue about the suspension issue or hijack this thread, but merely to answer the question of the OP. Then it got into me having to defend myself against unfair attacks and some false statements. As I have said, I believe that the future of the Genesis and Hyundai are bright and I look forward to them doing very well going forward.

5. I am very sorry that things got out of hand and that someone was suspended. It is my hope that we can all get along in the future and make this forum a great source of information and enjoyment.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark, one more oppo to bring up the suspension? Nice going!

I know, you were only replying to a question, right? Don't worry, I'm sure the mods are taking notes too.

If someone asks me a question, and/or questions my honesty, then I think it is reasonable for me to respond. Has nothing to do with the suspension.

 

[ttsig]

The 15,934 and the 18,789 are the numbers that everyone should be looking at. It gives you the total picture. I would venture to guest that 75%-80% of the 18,789 are Sedans.

I don't know if anybody's even looking at the actual data in this thread by I wanted to correct what I believe to be an incorrect statement about the "total number of Genesis vehicles sold since inception". A previous post, and the post above list 18,789, but that seems to be based on the following:

CARLINE SEPT 09 SEPT 08 CY2009 CY2008
GENESIS 1,665 1,029 15,934 2,855

They appear to be adding the 15,934 (current sold through Sept 2009) with 2,855 (number sold since start of 2008 - Sept 2008). This leaves out the vehicles sold in Oct, Nov, and Dec of 2008. According to Hyundai's Dec 2008 results they sold a total of 6,167 as of Dec 2008.

The count start's over on Jan 1, 2009, so the 15,934 is total unit's sold just this year, thus to total number Genesis vehicles sold is 6,167 (total vehicles sold in 2008) + 15,934 (total vehicles sold so far in 2009), that's 22,101.

 

[DeMAN]

I don't know if anybody's even looking at the actual data in this thread by I wanted to correct what I believe to be an incorrect statement about the "total number of Genesis vehicles sold since inception". A previous post, and the post above list 18,789, but that seems to be based on the following:

CARLINE SEPT 09 SEPT 08 CY2009 CY2008
GENESIS 1,665 1,029 15,934 2,855

They appear to be adding the 15,934 (current sold through Sept 2009) with 2,855 (number sold since start of 2008 - Sept 2008). This leaves out the vehicles sold in Oct, Nov, and Dec of 2008. According to Hyundai's Dec 2008 results they sold a total of 6,167 as of Dec 2008.

The count start's over on Jan 1, 2009, so the 15,934 is total unit's sold just this year, thus to total number Genesis vehicles sold is 6,167 (total vehicles sold in 2008) + 15,934 (total vehicles sold so far in 2009), that's 22,101.

Good catch and you would be right.

Yama1yzf = I agree with others that the sales figures should not be cause for concern. The Genesis was to show the world that Hyundai could compete at this level and build a world class car priced $$$$thousands below the competition. Don't think it was ever made to be a volume seller. The halo effect so to speak. And coupes are not big sellers to begin with. A double wammy for the coupe is the Camaro, which is priced right around the 2.0T but has a 306HP V6 as a base engine and IMO looks cooler.

The Camaro doesn't have near the options that would be available on the 2.0T. The Coupe does have some room on the top side $$$$ if the V6 was a turbo, This would be again another way that hyundai would set itself apart.

It could compete with the Camaro on all levels. I',m a fan and think Hyundai has done and the Genesis sedan made me even a larger fan. Nothing hets american more excited than power. I know what could be done with the 4 but turboing the 6 would make it even better and keeping at a competitive price would really set the bar higher.

 

[YEH]

I really have no idea whats going on in this thread the last few pages, but I wanted to echo some of the comments. I think that Hyundai sold WAY more than they expected, in fact I think there are articles from Hyundai about it. The way the economy is now, its incredible that Hyundai has made as big of a splash as it did. If someone is going to spend 40k on a car right now, its unlikely they are going to go with a brand they do not trust. Acura should be shaking in their boots.. p.s The new TL design is DAMNNN ugly.

The Genesis sedan was selling as high as 1,600/month prior to the launch of the coupe.

Let's just say (conservatively) the sedan sells at an avg. rate of 1,350/month - that's over 16k units sold for the year and over 80% of Hyundai's annual projections (which were made prior to the recession).

The GS and M aren't nearly as close in meeting their projections for the year and the Genesis will likely outsell the GS and M by a nearly 3 to 1 margin.

After looking at other sales figures for Sept., I am more more confident of the continued success of the Genesis. But I do think the Hyundai brand is a drag on sales. A recent New York Times article says that some Genesis are sold to business owners who want to show that "they, too, are cutting back". The same article says that 30% of Americans would consider buying a Hyundai which, while triple the the number from five years ago, is still pretty low.

Some people likely did not consider the Genesis due to the Hyundai badge, but keep in mind that any such loss would be (partially) negated by those unwilling to spend an additional $5-7k for a Genesis if it had been launched under a separate brand.

How many people here would have been willing to purchase a 3.8 w/ an MSRP of $37-38K or a 4.6 w/ an MSRP of $47-48K from a new Genesis brand/dealership network over a BMW, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, etc.?

Also keep in mind that the luxury makes are putting up some serious coin to move product (some people have been able to get $10k off the list price of the E Class).

The fact that only 30% of Americans would now consider a Hyundai product shows that the American market is not yet ready for a premium brand from Hyundai.

I've tried to find demographic data for Hyundai/Genesis buyers but could not. I tend to think that if Genesis buyers were as upscale as we would hope, that information would have been made known. It certainly was when the Lexus LS came out - and that was before widespread use of the internet.

A while back ago, Hyundai stated (if I recall correctly) that 60% of Genesis buyers (sedan only) had household incomes over $100k.

That the 2011 Sonata may not have a V6 option can't help. I still find that hard to believe. I hope they price it closer to the competition so that it loses the stigma of being bought primarily because it is cheaper than the rest.

Hyundai is just doing what most other auto manufacturers will eventually do due to the more stringent fuel economy standards.

Besides, the new Sonata reportedly will offer a turbo variant w/ around 250-260 HP (plenty for those wanting power).

 

[OBCT]

Some people likely did not consider the Genesis due to the Hyundai badge, but keep in mind that any such loss would be (partially) negated by those unwilling to spend an additional $5-7k for a Genesis if it had been launched under a separate brand.

How many people here would have been willing to purchase a 3.8 w/ an MSRP of $37-38K or a 4.6 w/ an MSRP of $47-48K from a new Genesis brand/dealership network over a BMW, Lexus, Acura, Cadillac, etc.?

Also keep in mind that the luxury makes are putting up some serious coin to move product (some people have been able to get $10k off the list price of the E Class).

The fact that only 30% of Americans would now consider a Hyundai product shows that the American market is not yet ready for a premium brand from Hyundai.

Hyundai is just doing what most other auto manufacturers will eventually do due to the more stringent fuel economy standards.

Besides, the new Sonata reportedly will offer a turbo variant w/ around 250-260 HP (plenty for those wanting power).

#1. It's a "no" from us. No matter how great the car might be, my family would not have given the Genesis a second look if it weren't for: a.) the awards/accolades, b.) the price, c.) the looks, d.) the fact it's a bit different from the crowd, e.) the fact it is not manufactured by a "luxury" brand. That's in descending order of importance.


#2. I agree. If Hyundai made a separate luxury brand when introducing the Genesis, I actually believe their sales would have suffered. If not their sales, then certainly their bottom line, IMO.

The extra expense of a luxury network just isn't worth it to Genesis families like mine; affordable luxury is ample perk in and of itself to us. I'm not sure if we're in the majority, or if those yearning for luxury-esque customer service to go along with their car are, but in the beginning stages of a recession I think Hyundai was wise to build upon it's economical, value reputation just to get the word out. Goodness knows I've ran into (not literally! ) some people who have begun to think twice about Hyundai (and Korean autos in general) after just a look at our car.

Maybe in a few years Hyundai will have the credibility in the North American market to step up it's luxury sales goals. If I may share my opinion: they're on the right track!