Brake override feature

[Cars]

With all the advent of "acceleration issues" that have cropped up recently, does anyone know if Hyundai has a brake override feature like BMW, mercedes, etc. ?
I have heard that there may be new federal regulations cropping up that mandate this sort of thing?

 

[GripperDon]

Hyundai announced today that they will start incorporating this design ASAP.

 

[Sayantsi]

Also already incorporated, the Neutral selection on the gear shifter...

 

[Dimitry]

Also already incorporated, the Neutral selection on the gear shifter...

 

[dataguy]

Also already incorporated, the Neutral selection on the gear shifter...

True, but that assumes people won't panic and will remember their driver's ed training (if they had it) about shifting into neutral.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/18/business/fi-toyota-recall18

There's also a lot of confusion about how to shut off the engine if you needed to:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/24/business/la-fi-carkeys24-2010jan24

 

[GripperDon]

Hyundai announced today that they will start incorporating this design ASAP.

This is the real system same as used by VW and Mercedes. When the computer see dual inputs from brake and Accelerator it defaults to brake only. Hyundai said less than 45 days to incorporate across most of the line. It's just a couple of lines of code. I thought it was a good sign that somebody somewhere at Hundai listens, AND takes action, it'n it wonderfull what press coverage can do. wish I could get their email.

 

[ctrcbob]

With all the advent of "acceleration issues" that have cropped up recently, does anyone know if Hyundai has a brake override feature like BMW, mercedes, etc. ?
I have heard that there may be new federal regulations cropping up that mandate this sort of thing?

If you want to see for yourself, push on both the gas and brake at the same time. If car still wants to go forward, you don't have it. If engine stays at idle, you do have it.

Don't we all just love this "Drive By Wire Systems"? I HATE IT. Nothing wrong with having a direct connection from your gas pedal to the throttle body. Always worked for me. (Sure, we had to change a throttle cable once in a while, but a small price to pay for safety).

 

[Mark_888]

This is the real system same as used by VW and Mercedes. When the computer see dual inputs from brake and Accelerator it defaults to brake only. Hyundai said less than 45 days to incorporate across most of the line. It's just a couple of lines of code. I thought it was a good sign that somebody somewhere at Hundai listens, AND takes action, it'n it wonderfull what press coverage can do. wish I could get their email.

Has Hyundai specifically said that they plan to implement this retroactively to cars already sold?

 

[Cars]

Where did you hear that they are going to get it done within 45 days? I am in the market for a genesis but am wondering if I should wait... While the obvious fix is to put the car in neutral, if this is going to end up being a federal regulation, which per the WSJ, it is.. then I might as well get a car that has the feature in terms of resale, etc. in the long run.. These are the links I am referring to -- the business week article contradicts the other two in saying that hyundai already has the feature...

http://online.wsj.com/article_email...51261910244700-lMyQjAxMTAwMDAwODEwNDgyWj.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052748704197104575051261910244700.html

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-KXC6BG1A1I4H-19

 

[VivienM]

There's also a lot of confusion about how to shut off the engine if you needed to:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/24/business/la-fi-carkeys24-2010jan24

In the Genesis sedan, press the engine start/stop button for a couple of seconds, or tap it three times. Or so claims the service manual - I haven't actually tested it...

(Exactly the same as in the Mazda 6 in Edmunds' dealing-with-unintended acceleration video.)

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[GripperDon]

Has Hyundai specifically said that they plan to implement this retroactively to cars already sold?

NO! not even hinted at it to my knowledge.

 

[GripperDon]

"Hyundai Motor Co. intends to equip all of its vehicles with the feature by the end of February while Nissan Motor Co. already offers the feature on all of its cars." Quote from WSJ

My typing was poor 25 days not 45.

 

[ASHDUMP]

So no more brake stands? How am I suppose to burnout?!?!

 

[Rey]

For those who are interested in the subject of unintended acceleration check the March issue of "Car and Driver" at page 34. They tested a Camry V-6, an Infiniti G37 and a Roush Stage 3 (540 hp) in simulated unintended acceleration. In each case the brakes overcame the power of the motor and were able to stop the car. Stopping distance was longer of course, but in no event could the motor overpower brakes.
They advise against trying to turn off ignition while the car is moving as it will cause a loss of power steering and vacuum boost for brakes. There is another problem with trying to turn off a motor while moving: In some vehicles the push-button stat and stop system require a LONG press of the button to shut off power while the car is moving.
Car and Driver concluded that with unintended acceleration the most natural reaction is to stomp on the brakes, which is not a bad move. But the best option is to shift to neutral first.

 

[ctrcbob]

In the Genesis sedan, press the engine start/stop button for a couple of seconds, or tap it three times. Or so claims the service manual - I haven't actually tested it...

(Exactly the same as in the Mazda 6 in Edmunds' dealing-with-unintended acceleration video.)

I believe the instructions say to hold the stop/start button for three seconds to shut the engine off while moving (or while in gear??). Problem with that is in an emergency, first you have to "think" about doing it, then you have to feel for the stop/start button while you are watching the road and steering, and then you still have to hold the button down for three seconds. Your car willgo a long distance in three seconds. (Still better and easier to push gear lever to neutral).

(Did I say I hate "Drive by wire systems"??????)

 

[GripperDon]

I tried, my engine overpowered the brakes, the car did so down, but after a block long distance the car was still moving forward at a very good clip. It was actually scary and I will not do it again, I think the front wheels may have locked yp I am not sure. I did it going at about 60mph and then floored it and stomped the brakes full hard.

I did it on a Mercedes S550 and the brakes brought the car to a halt.

 

[Disaster]

I tried, my engine overpowered the brakes, the car did slow down, but after a block long distance the car was still moving forward at a very good clip. It was actually scary and I will not do it again, I think the front wheels may have locked yp I am not sure. I did it going at about 60mph and then floored it and stomped the brakes full hard.

It can be scary but the brakes will always have more power than the engine. However remember the brakes have to stop the momentum of the car plus the power of the engine. If you look at typical 60 to 0 brake times they are about half of what you see for the 0 to 60 acceleration times. That means the brakes have roughly twice the power of the engine. With the throttle at full, you have effectively cut the brake's power in half...doubling stopping distances. Also, remember that brakes have a limit to their capacity, because they have a limit to how much heat they can reject. You should always hold the pedal down hard until the car stops...not ride the brakes gingerly. The longer time you brake the more energy, and therefore the more heat the brakes must reject and closer you come to overheating them...severely limiting their capability to stop the car. I would be willing to bet, in cases where people said their brakes didn't stop their runaway cars, they didn't apply the brakes hard or long enough. They most likely used the brakes to modulate their speed, causing eventual brake failure. In one interview, the guy successfully drove his car to the dealer and told the reporter that smoke was "pouring off the brakes."

The best solution, of course, is to kick the car out of drive, into neutral.

 

[hbv2020]

If you shift into neutral does the engine over rev and explode, or does the computer shut it down or return it to idle?

 

[Disaster]

If you shift into neutral does the engine over rev and explode, or does the computer shut it down or return it to idle?

The engine has a rev limiter. Don't know of a modern engines that don't. Generally, the way they work is to cut power momentarily. The engine rpms will fall...then jump back up....repeating this over and over. The other method employed is a "soft" limiter which starts reducing power as the rpm limit approaches. This type will hold a constant high idle.

 

[ASHDUMP]

Has anyone heard the 911 call from someone in a Lexus with 3 passengers. They called to tell them that the car wouldn't stop and the accelerator was stuck. 20 seconds later they crashed and all were killed? I'm not sure if this was the very very beginning of the Toyota problems, but wouldn't they just switch it into neutral and pull the emergency brake if all else fails?