Buying the new 2015 Hyundai Genesis

[jimb100]

Sort of. The Genesis is positioned as an over-sized midsize for better or worse. Hyundai would prefer you compare the RL to the Equus if you're going to compare at all. That being said the RL has no V8, no turbo 6 and is FWD or heavily front-biased AWD so I personally wouldn't even consider when looking for a luxury car.

Other than the external styling I think there was a lot to like about the outgoing TL-SH at its pricepoint, particularly the manual option. With the decision to run their AWD systems with the engine driving the front I think they've diminished the SH-AWD system compared to the mechanical one that it replaces.

Regardless of what 'Hyundai would prefer' the RL is a better comparison to the Genesis. The TLX is in a different zip code.

 

[italiabrain]

Regardless of what 'Hyundai would prefer' the RL is a better comparison to the Genesis. The TLX is in a different zip code.

I didn't leave it at what Hyundai would prefer, that was one sentence. The Acura lineup simply doesn't line up well with any other luxury brand. Their cars are small-for-class across the board, front wheel drive or fwd-biased, and lacking in larger or FI engines. All comparisons are going to be apples to oranges with Acura, but if you're going to compare it makes more sense to compare large to large and midsize to midsize as well as flagship to flagship and midprice to midprice.

If BMW decided to scrap the 3 and 5 and replace with something in between you wouldn't just start calling the Genesis a 7 competitor because the 5 was gone. The resulting car would be less comparable than the 5 it replaced, but still better to compare than the 7. Better =/= good.

 

[Alwaysforward]

I don't think you can compare the Genesis to any other car. It is top shelf in my opinion.

 

[jimb100]

I didn't leave it at what Hyundai would prefer, that was one sentence. The Acura lineup simply doesn't line up well with any other luxury brand. Their cars are small-for-class across the board, front wheel drive or fwd-biased, and lacking in larger or FI engines. All comparisons are going to be apples to oranges with Acura, but if you're going to compare it makes more sense to compare large to large and midsize to midsize as well as flagship to flagship and midprice to midprice.

If BMW decided to scrap the 3 and 5 and replace with something in between you wouldn't just start calling the Genesis a 7 competitor because the 5 was gone. The resulting car would be less comparable than the 5 it replaced, but still better to compare than the 7. Better =/= good.

Too often the car mags and other reviewers only want to compare by price. I think it makes more sense and is more informative to compare any two cars within a segment. For example, any two cars within the sedan category.

Of course its more informative to compare cars with relatively equivalent content.

For example, you'll hear "you can't compare a Genesis to a Benz S class."

Of course you can. Part of the comparison is that the Benz engine produces more power. The Benz has 6 inches more rear seat leg room. The Genesis has a better infotainment system.

Since the Genesis slots between the BMW 5 and 7 series, the differences among the 3 cars is helpful. All three are available with pretty much the same technology but the 5 is smaller and this is reflected in the handling and also the interior space.

Granted, people shopping for cars usually have a price point and shop within a few thousand dollars of their target, but limiting comparisons to a price point doesn't tell enough about the car to really let you feel you know where a model slots in the automotive hierarchy.

To me, the Genesis slots closer to the Lexus 460 than to the GS, even though the price of the GS is closer.

 

[XBOHDPuKC]

The 2004 TSX was basically a 2004 Civic. The TLX is based on the new Accord. 10 years is a long time. Have you driven any 2004 Hyundai's?

I am not saying that the 2015 TLX is as good as the 2015 Genesis, but comparisons to a totally different car built in 2004 may not be fair.

I am not comparing cars, model years or some other statistical aberations, but my experience over 5 years of ownership. All the year numbers and all that is completely superfluous - I had a great experience with one, and pretty damn terrible with another. Not gonna give the latter another chance.

And as someone mentioned above, TSX was not US Civic, but a European Accord.

 

[Aquineas]

The TSX was basically the non-US accord. The US accord isn't sold in most places from my understanding. The ILX is the model that is basically a Civic.

The US Accord is sold in Australia (alongside the US Accord). Surprised the heck out of me to see it on the road.

 

[XBOHDPuKC]

The US Accord is sold in Australia (alongside the US Accord). Surprised the heck out of me to see it on the road.

US Accord... alongside... US Accord... That didn't make much sense lol

 

[Mark_888]

Granted, people shopping for cars usually have a price point and shop within a few thousand dollars of their target, but limiting comparisons to a price point doesn't tell enough about the car to really let you feel you know where a model slots in the automotive hierarchy.

It is hard to argue with anything you said. However, in the final analysis, it's not the automotive hierarchy that matters, it is the consumer hierarchy. By that I mean everyone cross shops different cars. Reading this forum for the last 5 3/4 years has shown that to be the case. It is very difficult to pigeon hole some cars, and the Genesis is harder than most in that regard. Not to mention that there is about a $16K difference in MSRP between V6 Base Model and V8 Ultimate.

 

[Mark_888]

US Accord... alongside... US Accord... That didn't make much sense lol

Maybe he meant that US Accord is sold along side European/Asian Accord.

 

[Aquineas]

US Accord... alongside... US Accord... That didn't make much sense lol

lol you're right. I mean the US and the European Accord.

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[jimb100]

It is hard to argue with anything you said. However, in the final analysis, it's not the automotive hierarchy that matters, it is the consumer hierarchy. By that I mean everyone cross shops different cars. Reading this forum for the last 5 3/4 years has shown that to be the case. It is very difficult to pigeon hole some cars, and the Genesis is harder than most in that regard. Not to mention that there is about a $16K difference in MSRP between V6 Base Model and V8 Ultimate.

I don't look at car comparisons from a 'which is better' standpoint, more as just a learning experience. I have no problem buying a 2 year old car if its got the features I want at a price I can live with.

For example, besides the price, what, besides price are the differences between an S Class and a Genesis?

Size is about the same, weight is about the same. The Benz has 450 HP, the Genesis has 420. Tech is very similar. 8 speed transmissions are similar.

Suspension, steering, brakes? Fit and finish?

Stopping distance is about the same, electric steering, about the same. Suspension favors the Benz but its more complicated so it should.

Fit, finish and quality of the materials favors the Benz but I think the Genesis is at least 85%of the Benz.

Of course from a prestige standpoint, the Genesis is likely half the Benz.

Looking at the total ownership experience, the Genesis isn't close, until you factor in repair costs and warranties, and then buying a new Genesis looks better than a used Benz.

Make the same comparison to the Lexus 460 and the comparison gets closer.

Comparisons to the Audi A6 and the Benz E 350 produce a different set of variables.

If I wanted to spend $100k on a big sedan, it would be the Benz, but I don't. I think in the 'big' sedan category the Genesis is a pretty satisfying alternative, all things considered.

 

[Mark_888]

I don't look at car comparisons from a 'which is better' standpoint, more as just a learning experience. I have no problem buying a 2 year old car if its got the features I want at a price I can live with.

I understand what you look at, and I am not criticizing your decision making or thought process. But not everyone uses the same criteria, and I don't think you are going to change anyone's mind about how they should choose a car or what they shop the car against (other models).

 

[jimb100]

I understand what you look at, and I am not criticizing your decision making or thought process. But not everyone uses the same criteria, and I don't think you are going to change anyone's mind about how they should choose a car or what they shop the car against (other models).

I'm not trying to change anyone's decision criteria. The reluctance of some to compare the Genesis with the 'big boys' is what I don't understand.

 

[Mark_888]

I'm not trying to change anyone's decision criteria. The reluctance of some to compare the Genesis with the 'big boys' is what I don't understand.

You are assuming that everyone is logical, and that buying decisions are made using rational analysis. You don't have to understand it, you just have to accept that purchasing has a substantial emotional aspect (if it were based solely on logic, no one would get the 5.0).

Ultimately it comes to down to brand reputation and prestige, as evidenced by this thread:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=14586

The good news is that if everyone used logic to purchase cars, they would charge about $10-$15K more for the Genesis than they currently do. Hyundai does not price the Genesis so low in the USA just because they like us. They price it low because that is all customers are willing to pay for a Hyundai.

 

[jimb100]

You are assuming that everyone is logical, and that buying decisions are made using rational analysis. You don't have to understand it, you just have to accept that purchasing has a substantial emotional aspect (if it were based solely on logic, no one would get the 5.0).

Ultimately it comes to down to brand reputation and prestige, as evidenced by this thread:
http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=14586

The good news is that if everyone used logic to purchase cars, they would charge about $10-$15K more for the Genesis than they currently do. Hyundai does not price the Genesis so low in the USA just because they like us. They price it low because that is all customers are willing to pay for a Hyundai.

I'm not assuming anything.

I'm simply pointing out that when reviewers compare the Genesis its always to the E350 or the A6 or the 5 Series as they are closest in price.

My point is that the Genesis can be compared to the Lexus LS 460, the Audi A8 and the Benz S Class. Feature for feature, the Genesis may come up short in the areas of fit, finish, quality of materials and handling, but not by much and not in every case. Especially the 5.0 with the Ultimate package.

 

[tonyboysmith]

Thank you everyone for their opinion.
This was very informative.

 

[uncarich]

I gave up on Acura years ago. It is a wannabe luxury car inferior to Lexus and now I believe the Genesis. If you like the toys Genesis may be the best bang for the buck around.