CataClean, Techron, or any other engine cleaner for 4.6L engine?

[mtrot]

Any thoughts on engine cleaners for the 4.6L( or other displacement) Genesis engine? Has anybody used them, and what were the results?

My 2012 Genesis 4.6 now has 120k miles on it. The issue is that, after shutting the car off after driving it and letting the car sit for around 10 minutes, THEN the engine will sometimes die after cranking it back up. It will run for a couple seconds and then, as the rpms drop to the proper idle rpm, the engine will die. Now, if I then just crank it back up and hold the rpms at a higher level via the gas pedal for a few seconds, it runs just fine after that. This problem only occurs if the engine is already warm. Once the engine has been running for a minute after starting it, the car runs like a scalded cat. When starting from cold, the system automatically holds the rpms up high for a minute or so and the engine doesn't die.

I recently installed new spark plugs and a new air cleaner, so neither of those things should be the cause(it was exhibiting this dying behavior before I installed the new plugs).

 

[Ozy44]

I use this product on my 3.8L GDI. Not sure this is your problem but it's an easy process. Just follow the instructions and maybe it will help your issue.

 

[mtrot]

I use this product on my 3.8L GDI. Not sure this is your problem but it's an easy process. Just follow the instructions and maybe it will help your issue.

Thanks, it looks like the 4.6L is not a GDI engine, but the video states that it should still help. I assume I would still use it in the same manner.

 

[OUsig]

pull off the air intake tube from the front of the throttle body
while the engine is off
then spray all over the throttle body plate Seafoam spray or a Hyundai Throttle body cleaner.
Then gently wipe up the excess with a microfiber cloth to clean the carbon buildup that is around the plate where it closes inside the throttle body and this could choke off airflow at low RPM.
Finally fire up the engine and have someone keep the revs say around 1500-2000 and you spray the rest of the can all around the plate making sure you get all sides and also controlling the spray so you dont let the engine stall all the way down. It is ok if it gets low on the RPM but will get right back up.
this will help clean out the carbon on the back side of the throttle body plate and some on down into the engine.
with a GDI you really need to do this often to keep in front of the carbon buildup down into the engine on the air intake valves.
But I do the SAME thing on our 2007 Tahoe and I did the same thing on my 1999 Acura TL that I sold with 285000 miles so it will work great on your motor also

 

[Gunkk]

The 4.6 is port injected. It is NOT a GDI engine. Blowing seafoam into the intake has no purpose.

OP: Fuel, spark, air, compression. All 4 need to be correct for an engine to run well. The problem could be a dozen things including sensors, computers, emissions controls, etc. but most of these are monitored by the ECU, so if there are no CEL codes then I recommend the additional checks.

Fuel: change your fuel filter and have your injectors serviced (flow tested, cleaned). One or more may be fouled. Also have the fuel pump pressure tested. Put a few tanks of top-tier Premium gas in the car with a large bottle of Techron in each.

Spark: You did plugs which is good, but check your coils and wires. If the car doesn't shake this is probably not the problem.

Air: You did the filter which is good, and if there are no CELs then your throttle body and MAF and MAP *should* be OK, but never hurts to have them checked as well.

Compression: Any competent mechanic can test this.

Good luck and report back with what you find out.

 

[Ozy44]

Given the fact it's not a GDI, I would start with cleaning the MAF. I'm using a K&N filter on my Saab and get some build up on the MAF occasionally. The symptom is a stumble from the engine when it starts up, almost as if it is going to stall. Also clean the throttle body as mentioned in an above post. I always like to start with the easy air flow stuff first before getting into the fuel delivery system. Did you get a chance to check for stored codes yet?

 

[mtrot]

Given the fact it's not a GDI, I would start with cleaning the MAF. I'm using a K&N filter on my Saab and get some build up on the MAF occasionally. The symptom is a stumble from the engine when it starts up, almost as if it is going to stall. Also clean the throttle body as mentioned in an above post. I always like to start with the easy air flow stuff first before getting into the fuel delivery system. Did you get a chance to check for stored codes yet?

That is exactly what it is doing, except that it on ocaision does actually die. No, I haven't checked for codes yet because the CEL never comes on, but I will do so.

 

[mtrot]

Okay, so I looked at the MAF sensor, which looks to me about like it did when it rolled off the assembly line. I can see no dirt or debris at all.

https://flic.kr/p/24WXW4x]MAF[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/67568395@N04/]MDTshots[/url], on Flickr

I also took a picture of the intake, which also appears quite clean to me.

https://flic.kr/p/2ftU6vE]Intake[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/67568395@N04/]MDTshots[/url], on Flickr

 

[Ozy44]

The throttle plate looks pretty dirty in the most critical location, along the edges where it meets the housing. I would hold open the plate and give it a good cleaning with some spray and a tooth brush. Hard to tell if the MAF is dirty because the wires are out of focus in the picture. Did you end up cleaning anything or did you just put it back together?

 

[mtrot]

The throttle plate looks pretty dirty in the most critical location, along the edges where it meets the housing. I would hold open the plate and give it a good cleaning with some spray and a tooth brush. Hard to tell if the MAF is dirty because the wires are out of focus in the picture. Did you end up cleaning anything or did you just put it back together?

Thanks, I couldn't get the camera to focus on those wires in the MAF, but they did look pristine. I did blow out the area with compressed air and softly wiped with a soft cloth that recessed area that looks like glass as well.

As to the throttle plate, I did see the dirt around the edges as you describe. I tried pushing lightly on the plate, but it did not move. I did not want to push very hard, as I don't know much about it and whether pushing hard might damage something. How hard can I push on that plate? It looks like it is hinged -- is that correct? Also, with what spray would you recommend I clean the plate area?

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[Jabald]

I did the whole fuel systems and air intake package including new pump assembly, plugs, pro injector cleaning. For air, maf sensor cleaned with correct maf sensor cleaner. (Please just clean the maf sensor. It’s just a little tiny baby sensor that you can barely tell if it’s dirty anyways) Regular air filter and cleaned the throttle body by pressing the throttle down with the car’s accessories on and engine OFF. This is an electronic throttle body! Don’t you dare push on it!!!! You will break the teeth of the gears inside!!!!!!!! It will only move if you press the throttle down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s a two man job to make it easy to clean. Don’t use a brick on the gas petal to do it yourself. It Just doesn’t work.

Also use 91 every once in a while at least. Gas is a solvent!! It will clean your engine!!!!

 

[edizzle89]

cleaned the throttle body by pressing the throttle down with the car’s accessories on and engine OFF. This is an electronic throttle body! Don’t you dare push on it!!!! You will break the teeth of the gears inside!!!!!!!! It will only move if you press the throttle down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s a two man job to make it easy to clean. Don’t use a brick on the gas petal to do it yourself. It Just doesn’t work.

How is it that the throttle would open with someone's foot on the pedal but not a brick?

Also you wont hurt the throttle body by opening it by hand. I cleaned mine with the ignition completely off and just unplugging it and unbolting it from the intake so I could clean both sides. I moved the throttle blade several times to get everything good and clean both on the blade itself and the housing. That was ~1000 miles ago and it didnt cause a single issue. I do agree to not move the throttle blade with accessories/ignition on as then the ECM is controlling the throttle, unplugging it is a extra step just to be a little safer.

 

[Jabald]

How is it that the throttle would open with someone's foot on the pedal but not a brick?

Also you wont hurt the throttle body by opening it by hand. I cleaned mine with the ignition completely off and just unplugging it and unbolting it from the intake so I could clean both sides. I moved the throttle blade several times to get everything good and clean both on the blade itself and the housing. That was ~1000 miles ago and it didnt cause a single issue. I do agree to not move the throttle blade with accessories/ignition on as then the ECM is controlling the throttle, unplugging it is a extra step just to be a little safer.

The Brick was a joke, sure you could find a good brick and hold it open. Me? I couldn’t find that brick.

Yeah you can push it open all day long if it’s unplugged!

It’s basic maintenance for me, just give it a wipe when you’re doing a service. Saves a lot of time when you have more cars to go and so few hours in the day.

 

[Ozy44]

mtrot,
Don't forget to follow up and let us know if cleaning the MAF and throttle body fixed your issue.

 

[mtrot]

mtrot,
Don't forget to follow up and let us know if cleaning the MAF and throttle body fixed your issue.

Thanks, I bought CRC MAF sensor cleaner, but I cannot remove the connector from the MAF sensor. There is a little white "keeper" clip of some sort on the under side of the connector and I cannot figure out how it works. I got it to move backwards a bit, but the connector still will not disconnect. I don't want to push too hard on anything and break it. Does the white keeper have to be first removed for the connector to disconnect?

https://flic.kr/p/2ecxk8D]Connector[/url] by https://www.flickr.com/photos/67568395@N04/]MDTshots[/url], on Flickr

Edit: I finally got the connector loose and have thoroughly sprayed the MAF sensor with the cleaner. Now letting it dry.

 

[toxicavenger70]

Run some Chemtool B12 in a tank of gas after you clean your maf/throttle body. Good luck.

 

[dhall57]

Run some Chemtool B12 in a tank of gas after you clean your maf/throttle body. Good luck.

I bought my 2013 V6 3.8 GDI in 2017 with 36K on the clock. The service mgr told me that these engines were very good motors but being gas direct injected they were more likely to have issues with carbon build up so Hyundai recommened putting Techron additive in the tank every other oil change and I shouldn't have any issues with carbon build up on fuel injectors, etc. Car now has 80K and still idles and runs great.

 

[toxicavenger70]

I bought my 2013 V6 3.8 GDI in 2017 with 36K on the clock. The service mgr told me that these engines were very good motors but being gas direct injected they were more likely to have issues with carbon build up so Hyundai recommened putting Techron additive in the tank every other oil change and I shouldn't have any issues with carbon build up on fuel injectors, etc. Car now has 80K and still idles and runs great.

Good deal. I use to be a service manager and referred the same thing. But over time I found out about Chemtool and can tell the difference right away. I only use Chemtool about once every 6 months. It is to strong to use at ever other fill up.

 

[Mandrake]

THEN the engine will sometimes die after cranking it back up.

I don't know about the 4.6L V8 specifically but on many vehicles, if you have a warm start issue, this is often a dirty coolant temperature sensor. When the engine is at cranking RPM (<300 RPM), the engine is using the cranking map which usually takes into account the air pressure, coolant temperature, air intake temperature but it ignores the MAF and MAP. Its like 'open loop' mode. So if cold starts aren't an issue but warm starts are, you might try reading the coolant temperature sensor resistance with a digital multimeter and see if its reading accurately. Before you do that, just check the color of the coolant (with the car cold! don't take off a hot radiator cap). It should be green. If its contaminated, you could have issues. At 120k miles, the coolant should have been changed by now.

As far as fuel system cleaners, I like Techron. They say to dump the bottle in and then fill the tank. I like to dump the bottle in when the tank is almost empty. That way its more concentrated.

 

[mtrot]

I don't know about the 4.6L V8 specifically but on many vehicles, if you have a warm start issue, this is often a dirty coolant temperature sensor. When the engine is at cranking RPM (<300 RPM), the engine is using the cranking map which usually takes into account the air pressure, coolant temperature, air intake temperature but it ignores the MAF and MAP. Its like 'open loop' mode. So if cold starts aren't an issue but warm starts are, you might try reading the coolant temperature sensor resistance with a digital multimeter and see if its reading accurately. Before you do that, just check the color of the coolant (with the car cold! don't take off a hot radiator cap). It should be green. If its contaminated, you could have issues. At 120k miles, the coolant should have been changed by now.

As far as fuel system cleaners, I like Techron. They say to dump the bottle in and then fill the tank. I like to dump the bottle in when the tank is almost empty. That way its more concentrated.

Thanks. Yesterday, I cranked the car after it sat in the garage for maybe an hour after it had been driven, but the engine was still quite warm. When I cranked it, it just died, and it didn't try to raise the rpms since the engine was so warm. I cranked it again, and it again died. The third time I cranked it, I used the gas pedal to raise the rpms for a few seconds and it idled fine after that. Yes, cold starts seem to work just fine.

I wouldn't know where the coolant temp sensor is or how to measure resistance. I guess I may have to put it in the shop.

With respect to fuel system cleaners, I bought a bottle of Seafoam yesterday and added it to a full tank of gas. I guess if that doesn't make any difference, perhaps I'll try Techron. I researched Berryman's B12 and it kind of scares me, since people are saying they only use it just prior to an oil change, since it is so strong.