EPA finds Hyundai, Kia overstated gas mileage

[QuantumRift]

1 mpg or 2 mpg is NOT 'dropping the ball'. On a 30 mpg estimate, that error is, what, 3%.

The horsepower argument is an argument ad absurdium due to your 'figures'. 429 - 390 = 39 hp, which is about a 10% reduction. Be more realistic.

I am quite happy with the mileage my 3.8 gets; it often exceeds the sticker estimate. Even if it was accurate and said 28 or 27 I would have still bought the vehicle. Just not a big deal for me.

Their estimate has to be developed using the same guidelines and criteria all auto manufacturers have to use. And of course the posted results need to be accurate. It appears Hyundai dropped the ball somewhere.

The fuel economy numbers were a major factor in my choosing the 3.8 Genesis. 29 mpg highway while producing 333 hp were among the major factors that sold me on this car.

I wonder how those who say they don't care about fuel economy would feel if their 429 hp car only got 390 hp?

 

[QuantumRift]

+10 !!

Well, let's see, if they sell 3 MILLION cars worldwide, and say it costs them 90 million, that's a $30 price increase per vehicle. $90 million / 3 million = NO BIG DEAL.

We the consumers are the ones paying for it, one way or the other. So if you want your refund or class action setelement from these companies, then don't complain when their prices go up because you are the one who help make them go up.

 

[Mark_888]

+10 !!

Well, let's see, if they sell 3 MILLION cars worldwide, and say it costs them 90 million, that's a $30 price increase per vehicle. $90 million / 3 million = NO BIG DEAL.

They are not going to be increasing the price of the cars because of this.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

They are not going to be increasing the price of the cars because of this.

Mark, I can't beleive you could be so naive to think that they will not raise their prices to recoup their loss. A bussiness will not be around long if they just keep "sucking it up".

 

[Potty_Pants]

Mark, I can't beleive you could be so naive to think that they will not raise their prices to recoup their loss. A bussiness will not be around long if they just keep "sucking it up".

all sound business practices...

however remove hood cushion save $5 per car... remove plastic guard around trunk arms $5... 1 less commercial, increase prices if market allows... reduce worker's overtime hours,etc.

many way to cut back, they dont need to increase the price to offset their loss. however if the market allowed i sure would !

ppp

 

[LA Genesis]

1 mpg or 2 mpg is NOT 'dropping the ball'. On a 30 mpg estimate, that error is, what, 3%.

Just not a big deal for me.

The posted mileage influenced my buying decision. One mpg is not a game changer for me either. I'm happy with my highway mpg but disappointed in my city mpg. But I resent them screwing this up. Why did the other manufacturers get it right and not Hyundai?

Right now I'm more worried now about why my windows don't go down (intermittently) and why I've had so many problems with a car with less than 15,000 miles.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark, I can't beleive you could be so naive to think that they will not raise their prices to recoup their loss. A bussiness will not be around long if they just keep "sucking it up".

I am not naive at all. A company can only sell a product for the amount of money that people are willing to pay, regardless of the cost (unless you have a monopoly or are the government). If Hyundai could charge double the price and if people would pay it, they would (like Apple does on many of its products). If people are only willing to pay less than current prices, then that is all they can charge for them if they expect to sell the number of units they expect and to keep those people in Korea employed.

 

[Mark_888]

The posted mileage influenced my buying decision. One mpg is not a game changer for me either. I'm happy with my highway mpg but disappointed in my city mpg. But I resent them screwing this up. Why did the other manufacturers get it right and not Hyundai?

Since only certain model years of Hyundai vehicles are affected, it appears that they must have changed the procedure and thought it was still legal, but obviously not.

How did these errors occur?
In order to measure and calculate fuel economy, which is certified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a manufacturer must first assess each vehicle’s “coastdown” value. Coastdown testing is used to measure all types of resistance encountered by a vehicle during real-world operation, including aerodynamic, tire rolling and drivetrain resistance, or frictional losses. It was during this process that our testing operations made the procedural errors.​

 

[Mark_888]

Info from Hyundai FAQ on the subject:
https://hyundaimpginfo.com/faq

What is the situation with Hyundai's fuel economy ratings?
Due to a series of procedural errors at our joint testing operations in Korea, Hyundai and Kia overstated the fuel economy ratings for approximately 900,000 – or 35 percent of – 2011-13 model year vehicles sold through October 31, 2012. We are taking immediate steps to correct these errors, including relabeling the fuel economy ratings for vehicles currently in showrooms.

How much is Hyundai's fuel economy being reduced?
With the appropriate corrections in place, the 2012 Hyundai/Kia fleet fuel economy levels are reduced by an average of 3 percent – from 27 to 26 miles per gallon (MPG).

Why is Hyundai taking these actions?
Earlier this year, EPA informed our technical center that it had questions about how we had determined coastdown values for our vehicles. EPA’s independent testing had resulted in coastdown values different than those that we reported. We determined that certain procedures resulted in higher fuel economy values and have taken steps to change them. This reimbursement program is intended to fully compensate all affected vehicle owners.
​

 

[genedy]

https://hyundaimpginfo.com/overview/affected-models

5.0 went down by a whopping 1mpg in highway mileage. Hardly news worthy. Genesis lost at most 2mpg (1 highway, 1 city).

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[EXBMWGUY]

I went to the dealer to have them install my winter tires which they store. The SA processed all their paperwork so essentially, I don't have to do anything except wait forum debit card. Just under $300.

 

[StangKiller]

Not sure if this has already been posted or not, but you can enter your VIN and estimate your reimbursement. I believe you will continue to get a debit card every year for as long as you own the car.

https://hyundaimpginfo.com/contact/do-i-qualify

 

[iamrelaxed]

I'm wondering why the 2012 Genesis 4.6 is covered but the 2011 Genesis isn't. The "revised" MPH for the 2012 is 16/25/19. Anyone know if that is different from the "original" MPH listed on the 2011 version? I didn't keep the original label. Any reason to think that the 2011 4.6 would get different MPH rating than the 2012?

 

[Mark_888]

I'm wondering why the 2012 Genesis 4.6 is covered but the 2011 Genesis isn't. The "revised" MPH for the 2012 is 16/25/19. Anyone know if that is different from the "original" MPH listed on the 2011 version? I didn't keep the original label. Any reason to think that the 2011 4.6 would get different MPH rating than the 2012?

The 2012's include the new Hyundai 8-Speed transmission, so I assume they had to retest it, even for the 4.6.

 

[packerfan31]

I did the hyundai reimbursement calculator for my 2012 4.6 13,500 miles = $141 which I assume is based on average alabama gas prices. Like many have said gas mileage was not really a factor in the purchase decision. However false advertising cannot be tolerated. While a 1mpg error may seem trivial, is 2 trivial, then 3.. where does it stop? Also if they will fudge that what else are the fudging...?

 

[QuantumRift]

Yea. Right. $30 can be tacked on anywhere in the manufacturing process to make up this. No big deal.

They are not going to be increasing the price of the cars because of this.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

SO I took a little 360 mile road trip this weekend.
60% highway at 70+ MPH
35% highway in stop and go traffic.
5% city streets.

Overall average was 26.5 MPG, which is better than anything they have posted. So for those who complained, what were they doing that they couldn't get the posted EPA estimates?

And for those who are putting in a claim to get their refund, are you getting at or above the EPA estimate? If so, then why are you putting in a claim? Other than you are one of those who want something for nothing.

 

[packerfan31]

SO I took a little 360 mile road trip this weekend.
60% highway at 70+ MPH
35% highway in stop and go traffic.
5% city streets.

Overall average was 26.5 MPG, which is better than anything they have posted. So for those who complained, what were they doing that they couldn't get the posted EPA estimates?

And for those who are putting in a claim to get their refund, are you getting at or above the EPA estimate? If so, then why are you putting in a claim? Other than you are one of those who want something for nothing.

and you care why? Worrying about others motivations can keep you eternally busy. Judging others to your standards is an equally futile thing. I can say for certain you will not change anyones opinions nor will yours be changed. simply put a fork in it this thread is done

 

[Mark_888]

SO I took a little 360 mile road trip this weekend.
60% highway at 70+ MPH
35% highway in stop and go traffic.
5% city streets.

Overall average was 26.5 MPG, which is better than anything they have posted.

For some strange reason, I place more trust and confidence in the revised EPA numbers that Hyundai calculated when they retested using the correct EPA coast down procedures, as compared to any numbers you have calculated.

But in any case, the revised EPA MPG numbers published by Hyundai are relative to other cars using the same procedures (not relative to mileage you may get with your driving habits). If auto manufacturers did not use the same test procedures, there would be total chaos regarding advertising claims of MPG.

 

[elshagon]

While I think its great Hyundai is making up for their mistake by handing out some cash, it does hurt their image as a company when they get caught inflating their mpg claims. A lot of consumers compare cars side by side when making their buying decisions, and mpg is one of the easiest things to compare when doing so. How many cars did Hyundai sell that they otherwise wouldn't have due to the 1-3 mpg fudging of the numbers? I see some of you could care less about a cars mpg, but you're in the minority when it comes to most shoppers.
We're considering the 2013 Santa Fe as a commute car and for trips and its 33 mpg went a long way to convincing us this would be a good choice. The new numbers? 29 mpg on the freeway. That's a huge difference! You should see the outrage on the Santa Fe forums. Now we will start including other cars beside the Santa Fe in our search. So it does make a difference when it comes to car buying decisions for most people. BTW I do see a bunch of class action lawsuits already popping up even after Hyundai has agreed to reimburse owners.