Finally, hyundai is pushing the 3.3L turbo. share your comments!

[GenesisCaptain]

I had to key off one of your earlier posts too...

Many don't care who made BMW move to a turbo - they just smile.

And a V12 even more low end torque, but what's the point?

My last car was a V12 BMW 750iL. But you know what, the low end torque advantage was largely offset by the additional weight. It was faster than my V8 740iL, but not by enough that mattered. Know how they solved it? Twin turbos, baby!

 

[Sal Collaziano]

This is why discussion of religion, sexual preference and POLITICS is against our rules here. It never ends well. Those involved in the political discussion in this thread need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still...

Otherwise. My opinion is that OPTIONS are a great thing. As long as there are small engines available - which most people will buy - that'll leave large engines available for the few of us who still want them.

 

[zielritter]

This is why discussion of religion, sexual preference and POLITICS is against our rules here. It never ends well. Those involved in the political discussion in this thread need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still...

Otherwise. My opinion is that OPTIONS are a great thing. As long as there are small engines available - which most people will buy - that'll leave large engines available for the few of us who still want them.

Understood and at the risk of pointing fingers, DRS has shown a consistent, unprovoked and unnecessary habit of using inflammatory political interjections that turn benign topics into a platform for his political conspiracies.

I shouldn't retaliate, but this is at least the second outburst from him that I've felt compelled to respond to on this forum after getting along with everyone for the past few years. Comment on the cars and leave the political editorializing on The Straight Dope MB or something.

Now we have feminine pinky finger Obama Gang (and Bush bots prior) at fracking this up again. They rig the rules of EPA testing to fake Better mileage with turbos. They live sputtering rice burning SMALL engines. They have a almost sexual fetish to force this in us. It is tyranny.

If you want small turbos. Good. Go for it. If you want to rig the EPA testing to create a forced market of sputtering motors, I say, you will be hung from tress one day.

Many millions of us are figuring out history is repeating itself again. And costing us and other massive money and crappy cars coming up. Because of .gov busy body terrorist tyrants.

Do the bolded parts seem normal or constructive for conversation on this forum in any thread? This is from one post.

 

[DRS]

I must say this has been one very entertaining thread. "Oh not this shit again" and "Age Racist" are the best laughs I've had this week. Anyway I will bow out and just read but it has been a great discussion to read and participate in. Vibrant discussion is a great thing.

Agreed... Kinda fun tweaking those that tip their hand when promoted or provoked.. And show up as micro aggressive thugs... serious, all in good fun.

 

[DRS]

Apparently I am bigoted towards old people with a different complexion than myself. That's my best guess towards interpreting what he means

In reality, I know he means "ageism", but he goes for the subversive approach and uses inflammatory language like "racist" because that grabs your attention and associates me with a known social evil.

This is why I drew the parallel to Fox News. They are notorious for this type of melodramatic attention-grabbing headlining of their stories. It's hollow rhetoric that gets an emotional response but has little fact. Look at my post history - I don't get bent out of shape easily.

This guy, probably by intent, pushes my buttons with his hateful, fear-mongering classification of entire groups of people as being behind a global conspiracy to take away his choice to buy a V8.

There's no motivation and it is actually free market forces at work, ironically. Oil is an exhaustible resource. The market is responding, albeit slowly due to the political clout of oil companies who have been subsidized by our taxes, to a dwindling supply by innovating the ICE ahead of its eventual demise as the main propulsion system of personal transportation.

That's all that's going on here when you cook away all the conspiracy nonsense. Yes, it's the government's responsibility to try to correct transaction externalities through policy - hence the tax incentives for individuals and MPG requirements. Without those policies, the individuals in the transaction will fail to account for the wider impact (cost) of their choice to buy a gas guzzling Hummer (RIP ). Econ 101 rather than Conspiracies 101.

".gov" doesn't always get it right and there is corruption at all levels, but the end goal is A) Get us off dependency of carbon based fuels before price becomes economically detrimental. B) Reduce global emissions of carbon to slow down climate change and give us a fighting chance to resolve sustainability issues.

B will get me in trouble because we all know that India and China will continue industrialize with high carbon emissions regardless of what we do, but hey, we've got to be the shining example, right? I throw my money behind scientists who evaluate the facts, not some politician with an agenda.

I use the language people like you use all the time. You and others do not like one using your lexicon against your outlandish controlling opinions. And call out your micro aggression. Suck it up...

 

[DRS]

Apparently I am bigoted towards old people with a different complexion than myself. That's my best guess towards interpreting what he means

In reality, I know he means "ageism", but he goes for the subversive approach and uses inflammatory language like "racist" because that grabs your attention and associates me with a known social evil.

This is why I drew the parallel to Fox News. They are notorious for this type of melodramatic attention-grabbing headlining of their stories. It's hollow rhetoric that gets an emotional response but has little fact. Look at my post history - I don't get bent out of shape easily.

This guy, probably by intent, pushes my buttons with his hateful, fear-mongering classification of entire groups of people as being behind a global conspiracy to take away his choice to buy a V8.

There's no motivation and it is actually free market forces at work, ironically. Oil is an exhaustible resource. The market is responding, albeit slowly due to the political clout of oil companies who have been subsidized by our taxes, to a dwindling supply by innovating the ICE ahead of its eventual demise as the main propulsion system of personal transportation.

That's all that's going on here when you cook away all the conspiracy nonsense. Yes, it's the government's responsibility to try to correct transaction externalities through policy - hence the tax incentives for individuals and MPG requirements. Without those policies, the individuals in the transaction will fail to account for the wider impact (cost) of their choice to buy a gas guzzling Hummer (RIP ). Econ 101 rather than Conspiracies 101.

".gov" doesn't always get it right and there is corruption at all levels, but the end goal is A) Get us off dependency of carbon based fuels before price becomes economically detrimental. B) Reduce global emissions of carbon to slow down climate change and give us a fighting chance to resolve sustainability issues.

B will get me in trouble because we all know that India and China will continue industrialize with high carbon emissions regardless of what we do, but hey, we've got to be the shining example, right? I throw my money behind scientists who evaluate the facts, not some politician with an agenda.

Oh, go back reactionary, to your days of the 60s of peak oil and blame it on "exhaustible supply" and other excuses to help justify your mandates. Your Lib racist hate filled University professor message you seem to want to repeat, does not float anymore. Your blame game to justify your overlord wishes to force your view and actions on others jig is up....

 

[DRS]

Ditto, I find this hugely entertaining. I have driven many cars that made the shift from NA to some form of forced induction. I don't care what it sounds like-- I posit that anyone who has actually driven and compared the evolved cars would never choose NA again. FI is freaking awesome. It crushes several of the primary objectives of a performance vehicle: smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

Now, for someone who really wants the awesome rumble of a 60s era muscle car, FI will fail. But, just know that the old school car will be slower in acceleration and poorer in handling compared to its FI alternative.

A couple folks mentioned the BMW M3 as an example down this path. The E46's S54 engine is one of my favorites on the planet. That car was other worldly. When BMW tried to keep up with the power race using cylinders and displacement, but it hurt performance. Fortunately, BMW dropped the extra cylinders and added FI. They went through the same lifecycle with the M5's engine. I like the FI M5 V8 better than the old NA V10.

And I should add that when I can afford a Tesla, I am buying one. My friends that have them rave about the driving experience. No one misses the engine sound. No one.

Did you ignore my accolades about the Tesla? And my consideration about buying one? Guess you insist on missing the points. This is about choice, not .gov mandates. .gov did not create Tesla, Musk did. Why? For his choice of a car and helping solve a potential problem. Sure the fed tax credit is a issue in my book. Not needed. We seek to buy a Tesla because it is one of the best cars on the planet, for what it is and does.

I am NOT against FI.. I mock it's BEING forced on us. And some of it's funny traits. I OWN FI vehicles right now. And love them. Diesel FI V8s. Direct injection, and over 800ft lbs of torque (over 400HP). Think beyond the surface crap you have been taught. A tyranny of "politio-correct speak" above the level of Orwell.

My first car I drove alone was a Corvair Turbo. Grandmothers. Nice try, drove like a "off-on" switch. Give GM credit to meeting a small market demand. I have had Non GNX Turbo Regals, Mustang SVO, and "Pace car" Mustang Turbo before that. I bought FI because I wanted to. And in those days the only way to get above the norm performance. Today, the PS FI V8 diesels I own are amazing.

Again, What I want to get across to others and possible Hyundai if they are listening. The TAU V8 is amazing. To not fall prey with the lemming hoard flocking only to small turbos. Keep the Tau, and improve it. NA and possible FI...

And NO ONE has touched by mocking of the absolute silliness of "sound enhanced" motors with fake sound in the cabin audio systems. That alone ought to speak volumes about how desperate people who engineer these burners to appeal to folks. Fake sounds.. To mask forced non choices. How appropriate. Not even Stalin would have come up with that one.

 

[DRS]

This is why discussion of religion, sexual preference and POLITICS is against our rules here. It never ends well. Those involved in the political discussion in this thread need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still...

Otherwise. My opinion is that OPTIONS are a great thing. As long as there are small engines available - which most people will buy - that'll leave large engines available for the few of us who still want them.

^^^ you should be banned.. Joking.. You were the first one to bring up sexual preference by name. You might be accused of micro aggression and labeling.

 

[DRS]

Understood and at the risk of pointing fingers, DRS has shown a consistent, unprovoked and unnecessary habit of using inflammatory political interjections that turn benign topics into a platform for his political conspiracies.

I shouldn't retaliate, but this is at least the second outburst from him that I've felt compelled to respond to on this forum after getting along with everyone for the past few years. Comment on the cars and leave the political editorializing on The Straight Dope MB or something.



Do the bolded parts seem normal or constructive for conversation on this forum in any thread? This is from one post.

It is satire to call people in the weeds who control thought and speech, like YOU.. That is your goal. That is why you have lurked to "respond" over time. You make a profession of controlling thought. I use these very words you highlight to draw you out into the light. Yes, if you had the power, you would be a tyrant controlling opinions, views and ideas relating to This topic or others.

You are showing up as the micro aggression freak, not me or others. Shrink wrapped with a high brow approach does not work anymore, bud.

 

[zielritter]

I think my points are proven with his recent responses.

I am a racist, freak, ageist, liberal tyrant for disagreeing with his view on the world and calling him on it. Ironic that you accuse me of "University Professor" speech and then compare manufacturers to Stalin. A cornerstone of Stalinism was a paranoia of intellectuals.

Very apt quote from the moderator indeed.

Anyways, I'm all for innovation and the promotion of cleaner efficient turbo engines that make high power while preserving low end torque. In a free market system, the market supplies what the consumer demands and legislation (economically speaking) is supposed to control for externalities involved in free-market transactions.

If we're all being duped by advertising, the turbo lobby (I can't believe I gave this theory mention), and the EPA into buying FI powered vehicles, then bravo sirs - what a cover up you've pulled off on a global scale. Yet, even if this is the case, the digitally connected world we live in will expose the truth eventually.

By principle, a FI powered vehicle will be lighter and, generally speaking, reliable and fuel-efficient compared to a large displacement V8. You can throw things in like cylinder deactivation to help level the playing field, but the engineers at these manufacturers have put their lot in with FI when determining how to best meet global demand and make a profit for their shareholders.

Regardless, Gasoline prices will head back up when the Saudi's turn down the fire hose and China, hopefully for the sake of the global economy, pulls itself out of a full-out recession. Oil is exhaustible and I favor any legislation that encourages conservation of it and innovative alternatives.

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[GenesisCaptain]

Did you ignore my accolades about the Tesla? And my consideration about buying one? Guess you insist on missing the points.

Huh? Tesla accolades? I was commenting about the performance advantages of FI over NA. In my personal experience between the two, I would probably always choose FI, because it out-performs NA (in as equivalent as you can get between two cars with the different engine types). I have not been "taught" to love the performance advantages that FI brings to cars I enjoy driving. It is intrinsic in the vehicle experience.

The Hyundai is V8 is amazing... for an NA engine. Ditto the V6 that I have. However, neither is competitive in the current performance market. They are simply too large and too heavy for the power they deliver. And they deliver that power way to late in the RPM range. Hyundai will have to move to FI engines to compete with European car maker performance. Or, they will simply choose to hang back to compete with the heavier and slower Japanese luxury cars.

One of the reasons I chose my V6 over the V8 Genesis is that I liked the V6's lighter and more responsive handling feel. The V6 car is 225 lbs. lighter than the V8, and most of that weight is sitting on the front axle. Imagine how awesome the car would be if it weighed the same, but had the 5.0's V8 power and more low-end torque. The only way to get there is FI-- twin turbo V6. That is why I prefer FI over NA.

BMW and Honda (and probably others) were doing simulated engine sound enhancement long before FI took over. My NA V6 Honda Odyssey has fake engine sound piped in. I agree it is silly, but that is the current state of the market.

 

[zielritter]

BMW and Honda (and probably others) were doing simulated engine sound enhancement long before FI took over. My NA V6 Honda Odyssey has fake engine sound piped in. I agree it is silly, but that is the current state of the market.

Just to differentiate, there's a difference between simulated (i.e. comes out of your speakers) engine sounds and "piping" in the induction noise like the coupe does.

I quite frankly like the idea of latter in a sportier car which is basically putting a non-electric megaphone on top of the engine and running the other end into the cabin. That way you still get the authentic intake snarl when you want it.

I think it was Top Gear where they mentioned a Peugeot that not only had speaker generated induction noise, but the ability to change that noise to mimick the sound profiles of an I6, boxer 4, V8, V12, etc.

That, most definitely, is one of the silliest things I've heard of in the car market.

 

[CanukV6]

Huh? Tesla accolades? I was commenting about the performance advantages of FI over NA. In my personal experience between the two, I would probably always choose FI, because it out-performs NA (in as equivalent as you can get between two cars with the different engine types). I have not been "taught" to love the performance advantages that FI brings to cars I enjoy driving. It is intrinsic in the vehicle experience.

The Hyundai is V8 is amazing... for an NA engine. Ditto the V6 that I have. However, neither is competitive in the current performance market. They are simply too large and too heavy for the power they deliver. And they deliver that power way to late in the RPM range. Hyundai will have to move to FI engines to compete with European car maker performance. Or, they will simply choose to hang back to compete with the heavier and slower Japanese luxury cars.

One of the reasons I chose my V6 over the V8 Genesis is that I liked the V6's lighter and more responsive handling feel. The V6 car is 225 lbs. lighter than the V8, and most of that weight is sitting on the front axle. Imagine how awesome the car would be if it weighed the same, but had the 5.0's V8 power and more low-end torque. The only way to get there is FI-- twin turbo V6. That is why I prefer FI over NA.

BMW and Honda (and probably others) were doing simulated engine sound enhancement long before FI took over. My NA V6 Honda Odyssey has fake engine sound piped in. I agree it is silly, but that is the current state of the market.

A calm, logical and reasoned commentary. What were you thinking?
Are you deliberately trying to provoke DRS?

 

[zielritter]

A calm, logical and reasoned commentary. What were you thinking?
Are you deliberately trying to provoke DRS?

He clearly doesn't prefer FI engines from personal driving experience. He's lying to himself - another common symptom of those brainwashed by our turbo-loving political system.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The V8 Tau isn't going anywhere. They're planning on boosting it for performance versions of their vehicles. Small boosted engines will allow for large boosted engines to stick around.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Just to differentiate, there's a difference between simulated (i.e. comes out of your speakers) engine sounds and "piping" in the induction noise like the coupe does.

Totally agree. I was using "piping" generically to say that my Honda has engine sound enhanced by the audio system. In the case of the Honda, they do it to reduce perceived NVH. I can sort of get on board with Honda's philosophy. BMW on the other hand does it to make the engine sound more aggressive. That is silly. Now the Peugoeot-- that is mega silly.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Totally agree. I was using "piping" generically to say that my Honda has engine sound enhanced by the audio system. In the case of the Honda, they do it to reduce perceived NVH. I can sort of get on board with Honda's philosophy. BMW on the other hand does it to make the engine sound more aggressive. That is silly. Now the Peugoeot-- that is mega silly.

Drive the new Corvette. It sounds amazing inside until you hit 4th gear and the sound track turns off.

 

[jimb100]

Drive the new Corvette. It sounds amazing inside until you hit 4th gear and the sound track turns off.

I've never heard anyone claim the C7 Corvette pipes fake exhaust sound into the cockpit. Having owned C6 Corvettes for several years I still read the C7 forum.

You may be thinking of the dual mode exhaust system that uses valves to provide a less restrictive exhaust and a few extra HP under acceleration.

I had the same exhaust on my last C6. This system has the benefit of eliminating "drone" from the exhaust at highway speeds while still providing a good sound and a few extra HP during acceleration.

The idea of creating a false exhaust note and piping it through the sound system solves a problem for those who might be tempted to buy an aftermarket exhaust system because they like the louder sound.

By piping the enhanced exhaust note into the cabin they solve two problems. One, the buyer is spared the extra expense as, from inside, they sound the same. And second, those outside the car are spared the noise pollution.

While you might think the solution is foolish, its a win for everyone but the aftermarket exhaust manufacturers.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I really don't know but it's a huge difference as soon as you switch to 4th gear. It was an automatic that I was driving. It sounded odd.

I've never heard anyone claim the C7 Corvette pipes fake exhaust sound into the cockpit. Having owned C6 Corvettes for several years I still read the C7 forum.

You may be thinking of the dual mode exhaust system that uses valves to provide a less restrictive exhaust and a few extra HP under acceleration.

I had the same exhaust on my last C6. This system has the benefit of eliminating "drone" from the exhaust at highway speeds while still providing a good sound and a few extra HP during acceleration.

The idea of creating a false exhaust note and piping it through the sound system solves a problem for those who might be tempted to buy an aftermarket exhaust system because they like the louder sound.

By piping the enhanced exhaust note into the cabin they solve two problems. One, the buyer is spared the extra expense as, from inside, they sound the same. And second, those outside the car are spared the noise pollution.

While you might think the solution is foolish, its a win for everyone but the aftermarket exhaust manufacturers.

 

[jimb100]

Huh? Tesla accolades? I was commenting about the performance advantages of FI over NA. In my personal experience between the two, I would probably always choose FI, because it out-performs NA (in as equivalent as you can get between two cars with the different engine types). I have not been "taught" to love the performance advantages that FI brings to cars I enjoy driving. It is intrinsic in the vehicle experience.

The Hyundai is V8 is amazing... for an NA engine. Ditto the V6 that I have. However, neither is competitive in the current performance market. They are simply too large and too heavy for the power they deliver. And they deliver that power way to late in the RPM range. Hyundai will have to move to FI engines to compete with European car maker performance. Or, they will simply choose to hang back to compete with the heavier and slower Japanese luxury cars.

One of the reasons I chose my V6 over the V8 Genesis is that I liked the V6's lighter and more responsive handling feel. The V6 car is 225 lbs. lighter than the V8, and most of that weight is sitting on the front axle. Imagine how awesome the car would be if it weighed the same, but had the 5.0's V8 power and more low-end torque. The only way to get there is FI-- twin turbo V6. That is why I prefer FI over NA.

BMW and Honda (and probably others) were doing simulated engine sound enhancement long before FI took over. My NA V6 Honda Odyssey has fake engine sound piped in. I agree it is silly, but that is the current state of the market.

Hyundai engines aren't "amazing" at all. They are not even state of the art. They are good durable engines that make reasonable power.

Amazing is GM able to get 460 HP out of a small block pushrod engine that gets good gas mileage and will go 200K miles with minimal maintenance. And when it needs a rebuild, rering it and put in 16 new valves and run it another 200K miles.

The big difference in handling between the V6 and the V8 is not the 225 #. The big difference is the electronically controlled suspension in the V8. I'm amazed so many here claim the handling in the V6 is "better". It's not. The electronic dampers minimize roll, adjust better to road irregularities and provide better grip over bumps, especially bumps encountered when exiting corners under acceleration. The wheels and tires on the V8 are larger and the V8 has more electronics.

The Hyundai V8 is not "too large" for the power it produces. 420 HP is very reasonable for this motor and Hyundai, for 2015, deliberately moved the HP number down to move the torque peak lower. It provides excellent, smooth power delivery and is very consistent with other 5.0L dohc V8s from around the world.

Forced Induction is a very viable solution for smaller cars where packaging is a consideration, for performance cars where maximum power per size is desireable. For large cruisers, like the Genesis, the mid-sized normally aspirated V8 is a great choice, providing good power, reasonable gas mileage, good low end torque, reliability and durability.

I'm always amazed at car site posters who think they know more than the engineers at the car companies. Not all decisions are made by the accountants and not all are made to satisfy governments.

Some are actually made to create a salable product that works well for the consumer. Hyundai engineers have done an excellent job of making a car that works.