GENESIS ANNOUNCES ALL-NEW 2021 GENESIS G80 PRICING; STARTS AT COMPETITIVE $47,700

[TurtleBoy]

I'm not really sure what you guys are actually arguing about but here is some data in case it helps. Obviously the G70 seems to be a poor seller even though it is arguably one of, if not the, best in the class. There are various reasons for that which have been covered here many times. The poor dealer rollout hurt sales in 2018 and the first part of 2019. Other reasons seem to be the dealership experience, quality perception, lack of brand history, lack of prestige, lack of dealers in areas, etc.

Courtesy of goodcarbadcar, here are the 2019 sales by month as well as the 2020 Q1 sales for the segment.

 

[DarinG90]

Ummm, these numbers show the G70 has already been catching up massively to the Lexus LS. 2074 to 2712. For a rather unknown brand (until recently) I think they've done okay (especially given the dealership fiasco).

The bigger surprise here, is Infiniti!! Everyone's been talking about the Lexus, but Infiniti outsells it 2-1 (5,500 units)

 

[TinsleyC]

The bigger surprise here, is Infiniti!! Everyone's been talking about the Lexus, but Infiniti outsells it 2-1 (5,500 units)

And that's after their sales dropped. The prior G37 series was very popular. I drove one for 10 years, excellent car.

 

[Backslack]

The bigger surprise here, is Infiniti!! Everyone's been talking about the Lexus, but Infiniti outsells it 2-1 (5,500 units)

Infiniti (and Nissan) make a lot of their sales through fleets and rental companies. The lease incentives for a Q50 are also absolutely nuts. Doug Demuro made a whole video on it:

It's no surprise that Infiniti as a brand has such a tarnished reputation nowadays.

 

[MyCorvette]

Ummm, these numbers show the G70 has already been catching up massively to the Lexus LS. 2074 to 2712. For a rather unknown brand (until recently) I think they've done okay (especially given the dealership fiasco).

The bigger surprise here, is Infiniti!! Everyone's been talking about the Lexus, but Infiniti outsells it 2-1 (5,500 units)

Maybe it is a difference case in Canada. In US, Genesis is in fact very well-known for many years. The very earliest Hyundai Genesis went to sale in US back in 2008. Since 2009 and until last year its sales are always surprisingly good.

More specifically, the Genesis sedan always outsold Audi A6; although the BMW 5 series/Mercedes E class both are selling better than it, the quantity ratios are between ~2:1 and 3:2. Hence on US streets, generally speaking the Genesis badge are quite frequently seen for ~10 years.

 

[MyCorvette]

Infiniti (and Nissan) make a lot of their sales through fleets and rental companies. The lease incentives for a Q50 are also absolutely nuts. Doug Demuro made a whole video on it:

It's no surprise that Infiniti as a brand has such a tarnished reputation nowadays.

It is the car's quality determines its market competitiveness, not who buys it.

It is OK for a luxury brand to appear in the rental company fleet. For example Hertz/Avis have lots of BMWs and Mercedes in their fleet; and the Mercedes E class is even commonly used as taxi in many European countries. These never affect BMW/Mercedes reputation.

Acura seldom (or never) sell cars to rental fleet, but that does not help its brand image to reach the tier-1 luxury brand like M/B/A.

 

[Backslack]

It is the car's quality determines its market competitiveness, not who buys it.

It is OK for a luxury brand to appear in the rental company fleet. For example Hertz/Avis have lots of BMWs and Mercedes in their fleet; and the Mercedes E class is even commonly used as taxi in many European countries. These never affect BMW/Mercedes reputation.

Acura seldom (or never) sell cars to rental fleet, but that does not help its brand image to reach the tier-1 luxury brand like M/B/A.

Your implication (based on this and your previous posts) that the decrepit Infiniti Q50 and Lexus IS are objectively better cars than the Genesis G70 due to sales figures is utterly laughable. You brush aside every factor to the G70's sales mentioned already in favor of your personal narrative of it being a bad vehicle. But sure, I'll take your bait.

I dislike having to go on anecdotal evidence, but as someone who rents cars frequently at airports in my business travels, I have never seen a Mercedes or BMW being offered. However, the Infiniti Q50 and Chrysler 300 are always available as the so-called "luxury" option. Assuming Mercedes or BMWs are offered, I don't expect them to be anything more than an A-Class or base model 3-Series. Meanwhile, you can easily rent an Infiniti QX80 for chips.

Luxury brands are exclusive by their very nature. Mercedes in Europe is not perceived as a "luxury" brand, as are any of the other other European manufacturers, aside from Porsche, Bentley, etc. Mercedes/BMW/Audi offer base models with less options than a Corolla powered by a puny 4-cylinder diesel that you would never find in North America. Those are what the taxis usually are. Consequently, they don't have the reputation for expensive things breaking in Europe as they do here, because there aren't as many expensive things to break in the barebones models they sell in Europe.

Not sure how Acura is relevant to this topic since they were never advertised as a luxury brand to begin with. They are merely a premium brand, and that has not changed since their inception. Unlike Infiniti, which struggles to even be considered a premium brand nowadays, Acura has been thoroughly consistent in maintaining their brand level. There's a reason the NSX was released as an Acura here while the GT-R was a Nissan instead of an Infiniti.

 

[MyCorvette]

Your implication (based on this and your previous posts) that the decrepit Infiniti Q50 and Lexus IS are objectively better cars than the Genesis G70 due to sales figures is utterly laughable. You brush aside every factor to the G70's sales mentioned already in favor of your personal narrative of it being a bad vehicle. But sure, I'll take your bait.

I dislike having to go on anecdotal evidence, but as someone who rents cars frequently at airports in my business travels, I have never seen a Mercedes or BMW being offered. However, the Infiniti Q50 and Chrysler 300 are always available as the so-called "luxury" option. Assuming Mercedes or BMWs are offered, I don't expect them to be anything more than an A-Class or base model 3-Series. Meanwhile, you can easily rent an Infiniti QX80 for chips.

Luxury brands are exclusive by their very nature. Mercedes in Europe is not perceived as a "luxury" brand, as are any of the other other European manufacturers, aside from Porsche, Bentley, etc. Mercedes/BMW/Audi offer base models with less options than a Corolla powered by a puny 4-cylinder diesel that you would never find in North America. Those are what the taxis usually are. Consequently, they don't have the reputation for expensive things breaking in Europe as they do here, because there aren't as many expensive things to break in the barebones models they sell in Europe.

Not sure how Acura is relevant to this topic since they were never advertised as a luxury brand to begin with. They are merely a premium brand, and that has not changed since their inception. Unlike Infiniti, which struggles to even be considered a premium brand nowadays, Acura has been thoroughly consistent in maintaining their brand level. There's a reason the NSX was released as an Acura here while the GT-R was a Nissan instead of an Infiniti.

How come you "have never seen a Mercedes or BMW being offered"?? - if you really traveled a lot.

See the below photos - I took them some time before. In the photo you can see Hertz has Porsche Cayenne, Panamera, Jaguar XJ, Mercedes SLK, E class, BMW 6 series and even M5 for rent. Hertz also has E63 AMG and C63 AMG pop up quite frequently, it also has lots of BMW 3 series (it is just too common so I did not bother to take a photo).

Avis has BMW 3 series (a lot!), 5 series, 7 series - Avis seems to be specialized in BMW rental. Enterprise has Audi and also some BMWs, including the 7 series.

In fact from Hertz/Avis/Enterprise/National, you can find almost all luxury car models appear in their fleet.

 

[Backslack]

How come you "have never seen a Mercedes or BMW being offered"?? - if you really traveled a lot.

That doesn't look like an airport to me. I don't have the luxury of looking over exotic collections for rich California residents near Hollywood or Beverly Hills. You want to know what's not in that photo though? An Infiniti. Yet you can easily find those at airport lots. But again, that's my personal experience.

If you can show me that BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, or Mercedes have to rely a lot on fleet sales in the US like Infiniti to sell their cars, go ahead and do so.


Just for laughs, I looked up the Hertz "collections":

Rent the Car You Want with Hertz Vehicle Collections

Choose from dozens of luxury cars, muscle cars, EV, hybrids, and more when you book your next car rental with Hertz at a location near you.

www.hertz.com

The ENTIRE Infiniti lineup is there, whereas with Mercedes and whatever few luxury brands there are, it's almost all 4-cylinder base models. The cars in your images from the "Dream Car" collection are a whole bracket above Infiniti.

 

[Beefer]

^ Dude...give it up. You totally got burned. It is so obviously an airport...simply zoom in on the photos...LOL

Boston airport is the same way...as are other large airports.

And...there’s no Infinity’s because he didn’t photograph them !! He was obviously snapping pics of the high end rides.

You need to learn to admit when you’re wrong

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[MyCorvette]

That doesn't look like an airport to me. I don't have the luxury of looking over exotic collections for rich California residents near Hollywood or Beverly Hills. You want to know what's not in that photo though? An Infiniti. Yet you can easily find those at airport lots. But again, that's my personal experience.

If you can show me that BMW, Jaguar, Porsche, or Mercedes have to rely a lot on fleet sales in the US like Infiniti to sell their cars, go ahead and do so.


Just for laughs, I looked up the Hertz "collections":

http://[URL][URL]https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/productservice/index.jsp?targetPage=rental_cars.jsp

[/URL][/URL]

The ENTIRE Infiniti lineup is there, whereas with Mercedes and whatever few luxury brands there are, it's almost all 4-cylinder base models. The cars in your images from the "Dream Car" collection are a whole bracket above Infiniti.

Every frequent traveler to SoCal will immediately recognize which airport my photo is. Among those airports, few of them have all the rental car offices within the same parking structure, and it is underground, this essentially narrow down to only 1-2 candidates.

There is a way to find out the ratio that how many cars that Hertz purchases from Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes etc. into its fleet. Simply go to Hertz car sales, take a look how many of each brand that Hertz is retiring from its fleet and for sale as used car. I just checked, it has 328 Infinitis, 193 BMWs (43 units are 7 series), 156 Mercedes (you can see 9 AMGs there). Surely Hertz purchased more Infiniti than M/B for its fleet, but their quantity scale are the same.

Looks like you consider 4-cylinder base models are not quite "represent" a brand? I feel sorry for those who has reserved the 2.5T version of G80/GV80.

 

[Beefer]

I'm not really sure what you guys are actually arguing about but...

LOL...do you expect anything less from...ahem...you know? LOL

It’s nonstop.

 

[3.3 Rulz]

Can we stop the bickering and talk about the 2021 G80 and how beautiful and well equipped it is, thanks!

 

[Backslack]

Looks like you consider 4-cylinder base models are not quite "represent" a brand? I feel sorry for those who has reserved the 2.5T version of G80/GV80.

Nowhere did I say that, but it does say a lot about a brand like Infiniti putting their entire lineup into a rental fleet compared to Mercedes, who will only give them their cheapest base models- like you know, what most brands give to rental fleets? And as you yourself pointed out, the amount of Infinitis compared to Mercs and Bimmers in those fleets is double- which is quite significant when you realize that sales-wise, Infiniti is nowhere near Mercedes or BMW, and so those rental fleets make a more substantial part of their total sales than either of the aforementioned brands. Which is my main point on this topic. Thanks for validating my claims.

And no, I have not seen any Mercs or Bimmers at the airports I typically rent cars from, though that probably has to do with the fact that I don't often go to wealthy metropolitan areas like SoCal. As I said, my personal experience.


I'll respect what Rulz has to say on the topic and move on, but next time, please try to actually focus on the main points of a debate instead of moving goalposts around so that you can "win" irrelevant side arguments that miss the entire point of the conversation.

 

[Agent Michael Scarn]

I understand there are always excuses for something that is "not so successful", but it is quite a hard sell to most consumers that something is great, but sales are bad. Especially for something which is not targeting at niche market, but claimed to be competing with rivals with vast acceptance in the market.

The current Lexus IS is a very old and outdated model, which was developed 10 years ago and has been in production for more than 7 years already, a new car model like the G70 should not feel proud to compare itself to the Lexus IS at first hand, let alone the fact that after the dealership network/supply chaos have been solved, its sales is still beat by the Lexus IS on and off and this is still keep going.

Huh?? Based on what? Do a comparison between the amount of Lexus dealers and Genesis dealers in the US right now. By no means is it even close to what lexus's dealer network is at. For a brand new car to even come close to an established brand like the IS is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

The trend for the G70 is on an upward trajectory while the IS is decreasing.

 

[Mr. Incredible]

I've gotten a BMW 7-series in Tennessee, a Infinity QX50 in Colorado, and a MBZ E-class in Southern Georgia from Hertz and Enterprise on multiple occasions. Usually happens when they don't have a vehicle for the level I reserved, I typically reserve a full size sedan and 9:10 times they don't have one on site when I arrive, so I get a free upgrade to the Lux class.. they always have those on site.

none of these were in "rich California residents near Hollywood or Beverly Hills."

 

[MyCorvette]

Huh?? Based on what? Do a comparison between the amount of Lexus dealers and Genesis dealers in the US right now. By no means is it even close to what lexus's dealer network is at. For a brand new car to even come close to an established brand like the IS is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

The trend for the G70 is on an upward trajectory while the IS is decreasing.

After a new car model in market for sale for ~1 yr, the sales data/trend can pretty much predict how the whole sales volume curve for that generation of model will be - will not be exact accurate, but a holistic trend. For example you can take the 1st gen Hyundai Genesis sedan as example.

For the whole life of the current gen G70, its peak US annual sales will be at most around 19,000 units - that is not counting negative factors such as covid19 or economy recession. For the new G80, we will be able to predict by the end of next year.

 

[EdP]

I've gotten a BMW 7-series in Tennessee, a Infinity QX50 in Colorado, and a MBZ E-class in Southern Georgia from Hertz and Enterprise on multiple occasions. Usually happens when they don't have a vehicle for the level I reserved, I typically reserve a full size sedan and 9:10 times they don't have one on site when I arrive, so I get a free upgrade to the Lux class.. they always have those on site.

none of these were in "rich California residents near Hollywood or Beverly Hills."

Yes, but maybe you just project that sexy Hollywood image so they treat you better when they see you at the counter.

 

[Backslack]

I'd love to get my hands on a C63 AMG the next time I fly to Columbus International.

 

[TurtleBoy]

Huh?? Based on what? Do a comparison between the amount of Lexus dealers and Genesis dealers in the US right now. By no means is it even close to what lexus's dealer network is at. For a brand new car to even come close to an established brand like the IS is a MASSIVE accomplishment.

The trend for the G70 is on an upward trajectory while the IS is decreasing.

If you are talking number of dealers that is not correct. Genesis has more dealers than any other luxury brand except for Cadillac and Lincoln and those two have been cutting dealers.