Hyundai is not ready to sell an upscale car line

[tjsiii]

In my humble opinion Hyundai is not ready to sell an upscale car line.
I have a been a member of this forum for over 2 1/2 years and never posted but check in daily to stay updated on our cars. I purchased my 5.0 R spec in September 2011 and currently have 35,000 miles on the odometer. I have two issues; first it appears I am burning at least two quarts of oil between my 5,000 mile oil changes. After first reading about the oil issue here I checked my oil level and I was at 4,000 miles between changes and found it to be low by about 2 quarts which the dealer added but never documented. The service manager told me at my next oil change they would document my consumption. Today when I took the car in for the oil change there was no oil showing on the dip stick yet when the dealer called me he said I only used a little more than ½ a quart in the last 5,000 miles and that is within spec. I am not overly upset with the oil consumption as there are numerous options to solve the issue from running higher viscosity oil to repairing the engine under warranty. The fact that the dealer felt the need to cover up the problem or is just incompetent is inexcusable and not something I want to deal with when I purchase my next car. My second issue happened last year when one day XM stopped working in the car. The original dealer I was using replaced the head unit but that did not fix the problem. I went on a trip out of town for the week, left the car with the dealer, but again they still had no luck fixing the problem. When I returned they told me they did everything they could so the problem must be with XM and they were done working on it. I was told to contact XM and if I could get someone from XM to come to the dealership they would work with them. I contacted Hyundai and they sent me to the present dealer I am using for service and the new dealership found a burned out relay was the cause of the problem. This issue took over six week and numerous trips to the dealers to correct. As a result of changing the head unit I lost the turn by turn navigation directions that were available in the LCD screen between the speedometer and tachometer. I pointed this out the last three times I had the car in for service and the first two times they told me the problem was fixed only to drive away and find out nothing changed. The last time they told me it was corrected I made them go for a ride with me, set the navigation and showed them the feature was not coming up on the screen. Now I am told the head unit that was installed has newer software that eliminated the turn by turn feature because customers were complaining about it. Again I have to question if they are covering up installing an older refurbished head unit that did not have the turn by turn option or are they just incompetent? I won’t even dwell on the driver’s side door lock that was failing intermittently and they would not change it because it did not malfunction when I brought the car in for service. It made quite the impression when I traveled with customers and I had to enter the car through the passenger side because I could not unlock the driver’s door from outside. The dealer finally replaced the locking mechanism when it failed completely. I purchase new because I do not want to be inconvenienced with issues like this. The Genesis replaced a Buick LaCrosse that I purchased new and had 160,000k miles on the odometer when I traded it in. In 160,000 miles the only trouble I had was the seal on the water pump started leaking so I had the pump replaced.
I realize every car maker is going to have issues, but the way the issues are addressed will determine success or failure in the market place. I have been anxiously waiting for January 2014 and the unveiling of the next generation R Spec to be announced. I really like the car and I am assuming the downshifting issue with the 8 speed will be corrected and I expect the next generation will have a more refined suspension. But unless Hyundai can improve the service experience and stand behind their warranty, there is no way I would purchase another car from them again.

 

[WowCool]

Hi, I hear you, Hyundai are definitely let down by some if their dealer service departments. Whatever the constraints
put upon the Service Managers, After Sales service in all it's forms is Crucial to staying faithful to the marque..And of course having faith in the technicians expertise..I have found that a call to Hyundai Help Line direct and a subsequent call with your case number
to your local BBB will result in Action""
Thankfully with my " G" I have not had any issues. After nearly a year of poor service experience at my local VW dealer, my ex 2012 Passat SE was replaced by VW with a new 2013 Passat SEL after I took the Helpline/Case Number to my local
BBB office..Good Luck..

 

[P-bar]

The M series B'mers drink oil too . But you have legitament complaints as I still complain about the stumble and start ups in morning which they can't duplicate. I think they need to hire a service exec from Lexus to learn the ropes on customer service

 

[Mark_888]

The M series B'mers drink oil too . But you have legitament complaints as I still complain about the stumble and start ups in morning which they can't duplicate. I think they need to hire a service exec from Lexus to learn the ropes on customer service

The basic problem with that particular issue is that the only fix is engine replacement, and Hyundai will try avoid doing that if at all possible. It's not that they don't know how to do it, or don't know it is a problem, they just don't want to spend the money because it is not an isolated problem.

The reason Lexus service shines is fundamentally that they build more reliable cars compared to most other brands. Not always, but most of the time. Being a service exec for Lexus is a lot easier than the same job at Hyundai.

 

[Philth]

The basic problem with that particular issue is that the only fix is engine replacement, and Hyundai will try avoid doing that if at all possible. It's not that they don't know how to do it, or don't know it is a problem, they just don't want to spend the money because it is not an isolated problem.

The reason Lexus service shines is fundamentally that they build more reliable cars compared to most other brands. Not always, but most of the time. Being a service exec for Lexus is a lot easier than the same job at Hyundai.

Agreed. Being a service exec for Lexus should be easier in all facets since they really do strive to satisfy their customer. Usually no questions are asked, and there are no delays in obtaining authorization to fix the car.

 

[Fast55]

The basic problem with that particular issue is that the only fix is engine replacement, and Hyundai will try avoid doing that if at all possible. It's not that they don't know how to do it, or don't know it is a problem, they just don't want to spend the money because it is not an isolated problem.

The reason Lexus service shines is fundamentally that they build more reliable cars compared to most other brands. Not always, but most of the time. Being a service exec for Lexus is a lot easier than the same job at Hyundai.

Sadly, you are mistaken. Although the "aura" of a Lexus dealership is upscale, they do not "fundamentally shine" in regards to the actual service or their willingness to fix problems inherent in many of their cars. ALL makes have their issues that are quietly "swept under the rug" as much as possible. Google Lexus navigation problems, or for what ended my ownership of all things Toyota/Lexus, look up "Lexus piston slap", and "Toyota or Lexus HID problems". In my estimation, they are only better at getting out of doing the right thing by their customers, not at actually building cars.

 

[geneswede]

I had the HID problem in my Toyota Prius and they waited a long time before agreeing to fix it under a recall. They had to be taken to court.

 

[brfatal]

There is nothing abnormal about that amount of oil burning. These cars are NOT supposed to do 5k intervals. It's 3,750 if you do normal city driving (aka severe duty). You can do 5k IF it's all highway because it's less abusive driving. 1 qt per thousand miles is actually within several manufacturer's tolerances, so 2 qts in 5k miles in't huge, especially given the oil capacity of these cars.

As with any car you're supposed to be watching your oil level anyways. People who don't check every 2-3 tanks of gas after letting the car sit are negligent car owners.

And 160k miles on a Buick with only a gasket going bad is NOT normal. That wouldn't normal for any manufacturer. Anyone else who has also spent time in the auto service industry can tell you this. Your expectations are unrealistically high if you're basing it off your experiences with that car.

That being said, BMW and Mercedes aren't exactly the pinnacle of reliability. Hell, BMW is known as a car you buy new and sell as soon as the warranty expires because they are so bad.

 

[nfetterly]

My daughter bought a new Hyundai Sante Fe ~2 years ago. She found that there was an issue with the transmissions and Hyundai proactively replaced her transmission.

I don't know the whole story behind that - but was impressed.

My wife had a Dodge Grand Caravan, her service adviser (who she got to know quite well) at that dealership told her he would never buy another Chrysler vehicle again. He was honest about that (perhaps), but not about other issues...

 

[Philth]

There is nothing abnormal about that amount of oil burning. These cars are NOT supposed to do 5k intervals. It's 3,750 if you do normal city driving (aka severe duty). You can do 5k IF it's all highway because it's less abusive driving. 1 qt per thousand miles is actually within several manufacturer's tolerances, so 2 qts in 5k miles in't huge, especially given the oil capacity of these cars.

As with any car you're supposed to be watching your oil level anyways. People who don't check every 2-3 tanks of gas after letting car sit are negligent car owners.

And 160k miles on a Buick with only a gasket going bad is NOT normal. That wouldn't normal for any manufacturer. Anyone else who has also spent time in the auto service industry can tell you this. Your expectations are unrealistically high if you're basing it off your experiences with that car.

That being said, BMW and Mercedes aren't exactly the pinnacle of reliability. Hell, BMW is known as a car you buy new and sell as soon as the warranty expires because they are so bad.

Respectfully disagree.

I've owned several (>10 cars) that were new. Only one of those consumed oil. My current Genesis doesn't burn a drop, and I do 7,500 mile OCIs.

While the industry may "accept" a 1 quart per 1,000 miles oil consumption schedule, there is clearly an issue going on with the motor internally.

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[brfatal]

So one guy who has owned a few new cars versus multiple manufacturers. I wonder who has more experience or 1st hand knowledge.

IMHO what goes into an upscale car is not necessarily reliability (as long as it's not completely out of hand), but higher quality materials, new gadgets, and a higher sense or refinement in the car.

 

[Mark_888]

Sadly, you are mistaken. Although the "aura" of a Lexus dealership is upscale, they do not "fundamentally shine" in regards to the actual service or their willingness to fix problems inherent in many of their cars. ALL makes have their issues that are quietly "swept under the rug" as much as possible. Google Lexus navigation problems, or for what ended my ownership of all things Toyota/Lexus, look up "Lexus piston slap", and "Toyota or Lexus HID problems". In my estimation, they are only better at getting out of doing the right thing by their customers, not at actually building cars.

You completely mis-represented what I said. I did not say Toyota or Lexus service is better or that they are very responsive to fixing problems. I said their cars are inherently more reliable. This obviates the need for service or the willingness of them fix problems.

Now please don't quote me as saying Toyota or Lexus never have problems. But they have been shown in scientific random surveys of customers to have fewer problems than most brands. That is the reputation they have, and that is what makes them desirable. Not sure I would call that prestige, but it is a factor used by many customers in deciding which brand to purchase.

 

[Fast55]

My local dealer does not consider normal city driving "severe duty". The 2013 owner's manual says:

Follow Normal Maintenance Schedule if
the vehicle is usually operated where
none of the following conditions apply. If
any of the following conditions apply, follow
Maintenance Under Severe Usage
Conditions.
• Repeated short distance driving.
• Driving in dusty conditions or sandy
areas.
• Extensive use of brakes.
• Driving in areas where salt or other
corrosive materials are being used.
• Driving on rough or muddy roads.
• Driving in mountainous areas.
• Extended periods of idling or low
speed operation.
• Driving for a prolonged period in cold
temperatures and/or extremely humid
climates.
• More than 50% driving in heavy city
traffic during hot weather above 90°F
(32°C).


Bumper to bumper parked on the 405 every day would certainly qualify, but again, normal city driving does not in the dealer's opinion.

That being said, the owner's manual also says:

When you stop for fuel:
• Check the engine oil level.
• Check coolant level in coolant reservoir.
• Check the windshield washer fluid
level.
• Look for low or under-inflated tires.

Checking the oil at every stop went away when "service stations" that actually did this for you ceased to exist. Manufacturers will give very liberal figures on oil consumption for their benefit, not because it's "normal" to burn a quart every 500+ miles (it's not). It's the figure they use to draw a line in the sand at which they automatically take corrective action. It's usually the point at which the car will no longer pass a smog check and will begin to have other issues.

Most cars consume no recognizable amount of oil between changes, even at the maximum intervals. Unfortunately for the OP, a quart every 2500 miles may not be "normal" for most cars, but it's not as rare as 160K mile problem free Buicks.

 

[Fast55]

You completely mis-represented what I said. I did not say Toyota or Lexus service is better or that they are very responsive to fixing problems. I said their cars are inherently more reliable. This obviates the need for service or the willingness of them fix problems.

Now please don't quote me as saying Toyota or Lexus never have problems. But they have been shown in scientific random surveys of customers to have fewer problems than most brands. That is the reputation they have, and that is what makes them desirable. Not sure I would call that prestige, but it is a factor used by many customers in deciding which brand to purchase.

I agree that this may be their reputation, and my own experience with MANY of their products would hardly be considered an accurate sample,

BUT, this reputation is based "owner reported" problems, not necessarily actual problems with the cars. Overall, they have been good, reliable cars/trucks for me especially say, those purchased 10+ years ago. These include:

1980 Tercel
1984 Xtra Cab 4X4
1990 Xtra Cab 4X4
1986 MR2
1990 Supra Turbo
1990 FJ 62 Land Cruiser
1995 FJ 80 Land Cruiser
1997 T100 4X4 Supercharged
1997 LX450
2004 LS430
2005 Camry
2008 Avalon Limited

Since then, things have gone down hill at an alarming pace. They have perfected the art of "adjusting" issues to prevent them being reported as problems. While this reputation may be one factor in a purchase decision, few buyers make it the only one. Several acquaintances are also Lexus/Toyota owners and most agree that the brand isn't what it used to be. Between the issues with the LS430 and the outright lying and misrepresentation of 2 dealers on the Avalon, they will not see another dime from me. Hyundai will have to stumble quite a few times to reach that status.

It's unfortunate that the OP is unhappy with the oil consumption and other issues in the R-Spec. I don't think that it has been handled as well as it might have been, but I also don't think the story is unique to a brand.

 

[Mark_888]

Interestingly, the good reputation of Toyota products was the final deciding factor in my Genesis purchase. The 2009-2011 Genesis V6 uses an Aisin 6-speed transmission. Aisin was started by Toyota to build transmissions for their rear drive vehicles, and they now own about 50% of the company. The Aisin 6-speed used in the 2009-2011 Genesis is a proven and reliable design.

 

[tjsiii]

Just to clarify a few things; I am in a job that requires mostly highway driving so 5,000 miles between changes is very realistic. When I mentioned the oil issue to the dealer the first response was I should change the oil at 3,000 miles, in some cases I can drive that in two weeks. The Buick had an oil monitoring system and many times would say there was 40 to 60% oil life left at 5,000 miles. My last three cars were company cars that I ordered from the fleet manager and purchased at the end of the lease. All three cars (2 Ford Taurus, 1 Buick Lacrosse) were given to my kids and driven to 140K to 160K without any memorable problems. With all three of the cars the leasing company was responsible for maintenance and dictated the 5,000 mile oil change schedule. I kept driving the Buick for the first year I had the Genesis to keep the miles down and then handed it over to my daughter. I am not trying to say any one company makes the perfect car. I love the car, it’s the service experience that is deficient, and if Hyundai cannot address this major issue I would rather take my business to a company who appreciates having me as a customer.

 

[Mark_888]

I love the car, it’s the service experience that is deficient, and if Hyundai cannot address this major issue I would rather take my business to a company who appreciates having me as a customer.

Most likely there is nothing that can done about the problem, other than replace the engine (assuming new engines don't have the same problem), and they can only do that if Hyundai Motor America approves it. If a fairly large percentage of 5.0 V8 engines have this problem, that would result in a huge cost to Hyundai to replace all those engines, and bad publicity to boot. It is always better to purchase a car that is known to be reliable rather than to rely on the manufacturer to fix it there is a pervasive problem affecting a large number of owners.

The best service is when no (or very little) is required.

 

[Fast55]

The best service is when no (or very little) is required.

Can't argue with that.

 

[427435]

Just to clarify a few things; I am in a job that requires mostly highway driving so 5,000 miles between changes is very realistic. When I mentioned the oil issue to the dealer the first response was I should change the oil at 3,000 miles, in some cases I can drive that in two weeks. The Buick had an oil monitoring system and many times would say there was 40 to 60% oil life left at 5,000 miles. My last three cars were company cars that I ordered from the fleet manager and purchased at the end of the lease. All three cars (2 Ford Taurus, 1 Buick Lacrosse) were given to my kids and driven to 140K to 160K without any memorable problems. With all three of the cars the leasing company was responsible for maintenance and dictated the 5,000 mile oil change schedule. I kept driving the Buick for the first year I had the Genesis to keep the miles down and then handed it over to my daughter. I am not trying to say any one company makes the perfect car. I love the car, it’s the service experience that is deficient, and if Hyundai cannot address this major issue I would rather take my business to a company who appreciates having me as a customer.

I agree that the Genesis is very deficient to not have an oil life monitor in it--------they've been around in relatively mundane vehicles for at least 10 years.

As for service, that has a lot to do with the dealer. I took the dealer's service reputation into account before I bought mine------could have paid $250 less at another dealer.

 

[Vermillion3]

I dislike with great intensity women who say unequivocally all men are jerks..... I'm not a jerk, and I take umbrage with that statement. Yet I find myself holding the same opinions with dealers. From the Mazda dealer that installed aftermarket cruise control on my wife's brand new Mazda 3 (without telling us that it would be aftermarket) to the multi month/dealer process I went thru to get the engine and trans mounts replaced in my 2010 Genny with a shaky wheel at idle and in gear.

We all know there are good dealers out there that take care of their customers because they understand the value of treating customers right. Those dealers would seem to be far and few between.

As for those of us who renounce the line of BS we are feed from the service managers as the OP has, it is an uphill battle one that should not have to be fought in the first place.

OP I feel your pain and I don't like it either!