It's early, but your thoughts on the 2015 Genesis?

[ncee]

It's early, but the new 2015 Genesis, sure seems like one hell of a car. From where I stand, it might be an Avalon killer.

It will be interesting to see if the car is a true Premium Luxury Sedan, or if it's gone the way of the Toyota Avalon, and is now a Premium Luxury Sports Sedan.

If it has a:

- More comfortable Ride
- Quieter Ride
- Smoother Ride
- Larger Trunk
- As much or MORE interior space, comfort and features …

This car might get some of the loyal Avalon fans of old.

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[homeofstone]

I don't like the silver/aluminum trim on any of the newer cars that have it. I prefer chrome.

 

[CC4.6]

From what I've read here, I might be in the minority, but I really like the look of the 2015.

I was never really sold on the front look of the current Genny, although I think it looks great from every other angle.

The electronics and convenience features of the 2015 sound great, but I hope the reliability factor is a bit better than my 2012. I've had the head unit blank out about 5 times, although it hasn't happened for quite a while now (knock on wood.)

 

[tompass]

Pair AWD with the 5.0 and I would be sold.

 

[ncee]

From what I've read here, I might be in the minority, but I really like the look of the 2015.

I was never really sold on the front look of the current Genny, although I think it looks great from every other angle.

The electronics and convenience features of the 2015 sound great, but I hope the reliability factor is a bit better than my 2012. I've had the head unit blank out about 5 times, although it hasn't happened for quite a while now (knock on wood.)

I think it looks great.

 

[WowCool]

Pass on the front up to the hood line, the rest is cool. Interiors always look good at the Shows..Oh those Hyundai electronics, they could be the deal breaker!

 

[GenesisCaptain]

From where I stand, it might be an Avalon killer.

Funny... To me, the Genesis killed the Avalon upon its introduction. I cannot see why anyone would buy an Avalon after having looked at a Genesis. The question to me is whether the Genesis moves closer the luxury experience of the Audi A6, BMW 5, and MB E. (The Genesis is bigger than all three, so it has them there. It is just behind in total luxury.)

 

[jchao]

I second Tompass.
I also love the look.

 

[Mark_888]

Funny... To me, the Genesis killed the Avalon upon its introduction. I cannot see why anyone would buy an Avalon after having looked at a Genesis. The question to me is whether the Genesis moves closer the luxury experience of the Audi A6, BMW 5, and MB E. (The Genesis is bigger than all three, so it has them there. It is just behind in total luxury.)

Price of an Avalon starts at $31,340, quite a bit lower than 2015 Genesis Sedan. That is just purchase price. When you consider higher depreciation of a Hyundai, the Genesis probably is even more expensive. Personally, I would consider an Avalon just based on Toyota reliability. That doesn't mean I would definitely buy one instead of a Genesis, but I would strongly consider a Toyota/Lexus.

When you say "Genesis killed the Avalon upon its introduction," I assume you mean it should have killed Avalon, not that it did based on actual sales numbers.

Hyundai has recently been very strong in terms of features and overall value versus all their competition. But Hyundai cannot command the same price as their competition for equivalent vehicles across their entire product line. An amazing number of Accord and Camry buyers do not even consider or test drive a Sonata. The reasons for that have a lot to do with consumer perception, but perception can become reality.

 

[Cut-Throat]

From where I stand, it might be an Avalon killer.

Ouch !!..............Talk about damming with faint praise, this should win the Oscar.

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[GenesisCaptain]

When you say "Genesis killed the Avalon upon its introduction," I assume you mean it should have killed Avalon, not that it did based on actual sales numbers.

I meant killed the Avalon in terms of relevance with respect to the Genesis. My recollection back in 2009 when the Genesis was introduced, and for many years after that is that the Avalon at any trim level was similarly priced to the Genesis. And, the Genesis was likely cheaper when you factored Hyundai's aggressive discount pricing. Comparing MSRP is a starting point, but it is not a complete picture of what it takes to buy those two cars.

I would never expect the Genesis to come remotely close to Avalon sales. Totally different markets, marketing, and product placement. And Avalon is starting from the peak of the mountain.

Toyota has totally upped the game with the current Avalon and caught up to the 2009 Genesis. So, let's see how Hyundai packages and prices the 2015. If they continue to stay a few steps ahead, then the pricing might be a wash between the two.

The other Toyota/Lexus thing that would affect me (may not you, since you have commented that you prefer minimalist electronics features) is the degree to which Toyota disable their on-board electronics. Navigation and some of the other features are marginalized at best, and useless. Hyundai does not disable their features today. I hope they keep it that way. Also, if Toyota pushes the current navigation in Lexus down to the Toyota models, that is a total deal-killer. The Lexus LS430, IS, and others have the worst navigation UI that I have ever seen or used in any car from any maker.

Hyundai's problem is marketing and brand positioning. I suspect that the Accord and Camry buyers who do not drive a Sonata are either totally unaware that the Sonata is in the same class, or they still see Hyundai as a cheap brand. Much like Honda was perceived back in the 70s and early 80s. Hyundai can easily fix that, just like almost every other import brand has done. Look at Fiat now. They were one of the worst, and they are improving. If Fiat can turn right-side up in the US market, anyone can.

 

[YEH]

It's early, but the new 2015 Genesis, sure seems like one hell of a car. From where I stand, it might be an Avalon killer.

It will be interesting to see if the car is a true Premium Luxury Sedan, or if it's gone the way of the Toyota Avalon, and is now a Premium Luxury Sports Sedan.

This car might get some of the loyal Avalon fans of old.

With this premise, Hyundai would have failed w/ the Genesis (since the Azera is supposed to be the competitor to the Avalon).

But think it's actually the other way around; the Genesis has pretty much killed the GS and M (buyer of FWD sedans tend not to opt for RWD, esp. w/o AWD).

 

[Alwaysforward]

I am all in. Just waiting to see if they are releasing the Performance version this fall. Should know in March.

 

[Mark_888]

The other Toyota/Lexus thing that would affect me (may not you, since you have commented that you prefer minimalist electronics features) is the degree to which Toyota disable their on-board electronics.

The primary reason I "prefer" minimalist electronic features is that the warranty on them is only 3 years, and they are outrageously expensive to repair. I only drive about 8,000 miles per year, so I keep new cars longer than 3 years. Also, in recent years I listen to audio books and sports talk radio a lot more than music when driving.

The other reason is that I don't like sunroofs due to loss of headroom, and they way cars are packaged these days if you get the electronics you must also automatically get the sunroof. One electronic feature that I think is very desirable is a rear view camera for safety purposes. Even Accords have these as standard equipment now.

But next time I might just get an extended warranty to cover the electronics and other stuff.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

The Azera is supposed to be the competitor to the Avalon).

I have not followed this product placement lately... Do you know if Hyundai is positioning the Azera against the Avalon or if it is the Automobile media (car magazines and web sites).

I remember when the Genesis was introduced, it was positioned against the Lexus LS, BMW 7, and MB S. I suspect it was Hyundai, because C&D just took that and ran with it in one of their comparison reviews. It was a massive mistake, because the Genesis got shelled. It was smaller and under-equipped in every way against those models. However, the article closed that the Genesis crushes the Avalon (their addition to the comparison). When I looked at them back then, C&D was right-- the Genesis was in a space by itself and at a killer price point.

If Hyundai is positioning the Azera against the Avalon, then they are making the same mistake they made with the Genesis originally, and they will hurt the brand.

The primary reason I "prefer" minimalist electronic features is that the warranty on them is only 3 years, and they are outrageously expensive to repair. I only drive about 8,000 miles per year, so I keep new cars longer than 3 years. Also, in recent years I listen to audio books and sports talk radio a lot more than music when driving.

The other reason is that I don't like sunroofs due to loss of headroom, and they way cars are packaged these days if you get the electronics you must also automatically get the sunroof. One electronic feature that I think is very desirable is a rear view camera for safety purposes. Even Accords have these as standard equipment now.

I agree on all points. A/V electronics are psychotically expensive, but I still love them and take the risk. Fortunately, my only expense in that area has been voluntary in the past 13 years of cars with nav systems and advanced A/V.

Ditto the sunroof. These are an absolute waste of space and money to me. The problem is that those are almost table steaks in the U.S. market. It is not easy to find an up-market car without one these days.

I bet the 2015 has backup camera standard on the base model. I think that is where the market is headed.

 

[tompass]

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/...s-wins-prestigious-european-design-award.html

 

[dg_moore]

The primary reason I "prefer" minimalist electronic features is that the warranty on them is only 3 years, and they are outrageously expensive to repair. I only drive about 8,000 miles per year, so I keep new cars longer than 3 years. Also, in recent years I listen to audio books and sports talk radio a lot more than music when driving.

The other reason is that I don't like sunroofs due to loss of headroom, and they way cars are packaged these days if you get the electronics you must also automatically get the sunroof. One electronic feature that I think is very desirable is a rear view camera for safety purposes. Even Accords have these as standard equipment now.

But next time I might just get an extended warranty to cover the electronics and other stuff.

^^ +1. I'm with Mark - I also only drive about 8K miles per year, have no use for a sunroof, and listen to NPR on the radio. If I could have gotten nav and plain jane radio without the sunroof I would have done so. I did buy the extended warranty (~$1200) and had to have my head unit replaced recently. Turns out the warranty was a good buy.

 

[YEH]

Hyundai's problem is marketing and brand positioning. I suspect that the Accord and Camry buyers who do not drive a Sonata are either totally unaware that the Sonata is in the same class, or they still see Hyundai as a cheap brand. Much like Honda was perceived back in the 70s and early 80s. Hyundai can easily fix that, just like almost every other import brand has done. Look at Fiat now. They were one of the worst, and they are improving. If Fiat can turn right-side up in the US market, anyone can.

Not only does the Sonata have a higher ATP than the Camry, so does the Kia Optima.

I have not followed this product placement lately... Do you know if Hyundai is positioning the Azera against the Avalon or if it is the Automobile media (car magazines and web sites).

The Azera has always competed against the Avalon - a full size FWD w/ a floatier ride.

The '13 Azera starts at $32,250 + freight whereas the '13 Avalon starts at
$30,990 (the Azera doesn't come w/ a base trim, tho that will change for the 14MY).

The Kia Cadenza is even more expensive, starting at $35,100 + freight (higher than the Genesis sedan).

The Cadenza is more luxurious than the Azera and Kia sees the Cadenza as competing against both the Avalon and the Lexus ES (since Kia won't have a compact/entry level RWD luxury sedan like Hyundai).

I remember when the Genesis was introduced, it was positioned against the Lexus LS, BMW 7, and MB S. I suspect it was Hyundai, because C&D just took that and ran with it in one of their comparison reviews. It was a massive mistake, because the Genesis got shelled. It was smaller and under-equipped in every way against those models. However, the article closed that the Genesis crushes the Avalon (their addition to the comparison). When I looked at them back then, C&D was right-- the Genesis was in a space by itself and at a killer price point.

Hyundai never positioned the Genesis against the flagship sedans since Hyundai already had the Equus as its flagship; Hyundai did, however, point out/market that the Genesis had rear passenger room comparable to a full-size RWD sedan.

If Hyundai is positioning the Azera against the Avalon, then they are making the same mistake they made with the Genesis originally, and they will hurt the brand.

Why?

They are both premium (not luxury) full size FWD sedans.

But Hyundai cannot command the same price as their competition for equivalent vehicles across their entire product line. An amazing number of Accord and Camry buyers do not even consider or test drive a Sonata. The reasons for that have a lot to do with consumer perception, but perception can become reality.

Again, the Sonata has a higher ATP than the Camry (as does the Elantra over the Corolla).

And despite the brand perceptions, it's Kia offering a $38k SX-L trim for the Optima and not Toyota (for the Camry) or Hyundai (for the Sonata) for that matter.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

The Azera has always competed against the Avalon - a full size FWD w/ a floatier ride.

Why?

They are both premium (not luxury) full size FWD sedans.

I never would have called that. The Azera is totally different in size and function. The Avalon is significantly larger than the Azera. I can't imagine someone shopping for an Avalon would consider the smaller Azera. Now, I could see someone shopping for an Accord or Camry jumping up to an Azera. They are similarly sized and functioning cars. The Azera is just much nicer.

I think it is a mistake because the Avalon is a standard-setter in its class, and the Azera will always lose if compared on the Avalon's terms. It is the size difference. The Azera is barely larger than a Camry. An Avalon is massive, especially in the back seat and trunk.

Hyundai never positioned the Genesis against the flagship sedans.

Hyundai absolutely positioned the Genesis as a LS, 7, S competitor at its release. I will try to dig up the C&D article with the corporate marketing speak. At that time, the Equus name did not exist, and there was no mention of a larger and more luxurious car at the Genesis introduction.

 

[jtreadway]

Table steaks. Ya gotta love that. Aren't idioms a bitch? The best one though is the guy who wanted to know where to buy new power bands for his Porsche.