I've got solid info on the next R Spec sedan

[leadfoot rspec13]

Gotta throw my $.02 in on this one.

The R spec is a large platform that must have a silky smooth V8 (or V6 for those in no hurry). To call the R spec a "sport" sedan is a mistake. I drive one daily and the only "sport" feature can be found in the skinny pedal on the right. The ride and handling are atrocious. Don't get me started on the brakes.

My prior RS6 was a true sport sedan. Loved it right up to the point I replaced the third $900.00 window motor. Paid for the car twice just keeping it on the road. Awesome power, slot car handling and brakes that require you reinstall your eyeballs. Very expensive to feed and maintain. I miss that car.

But, I digress. I don't think anyone here will disagree that the R spec is nothing more than a big turnpike cruiser with a lovely engine that will pin you in your seat and more do-dads and gizmos than Battlestar Gallactica. For Hyundai to market it as a sport sedan is a bit of a joke. Instead of getting heavier like they did on the '15 model, they should develop a smaller, lighter RWD sedan and do it properly with a sorted suspension and worthy brakes. Drop in a tech laden small displacement compressed buzz box. Call it anything but a Genesis and they'd have a hit with the upscale youth market.

For me, leave the big Genny alone except for some suspension and brake refinement. Keep that big jewel of a normally aspirated V8 under the hood. Do that and I'll keep knocking on Hyundai's door.

Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Mark_888]

This thread is about a possible future Genesis Sedan R-Spec. It is not about the 2012-2014 R-Spec. I think we all know that the 2012-2014 R-Spec is not a legitimate sports sedan, partly because it is large and heavy (and not the best F-R weight distribution). Whether or not Hyundai will decide to produce a future R-Spec sedan has not been publically announced. But if they decide to build it, one of things they are probably concerned about is the weight of the 2015 Genesis 5.0 V8 (quite a bit heavier than the 2014), and whether they need to come up with a lighter engine option to help improve handling and improve on the HP/weight ratio.

All of this talk about what the 2012-2014 R-Spec is (or is not) is not really all that relevant to what my happen in the future.

 

[leadfoot rspec13]

Mark_888 with respect, this IS all about the 12-14 R specs because that is what is out there getting drive time. Look back in the thread and you'll see nearly all posts are from current R spec owners. To a man (or woman), it appears everyone agrees the current iteration is NOT a genuine sports sedan. On the same hand, I see no one complaining about owning one.

Save for the luxo-barge Equus, the Genesis is Hyundai's flagship of the fleet in the same slot as the European makers A8, S-Class or 7 Series. These models are appreciated as being vault solid, blissfully quiet and amply powered for seamless expressway merging or bombing down a lazy country road.

All of these manufacturers, including Hyundai with the R spec, make sporting variants of their large platforms, with big V8s, big brakes and suspension refinements, but, no magazine I know has expounded about flogging one around a track and breaking lap records.

The red-hot euro-rockets are built around the mid-size models, i.e.. RS5/7, M5, etc. These are lighter, nimbler packages that will accept monster power plants, huge brakes and trick suspensions that appeal to upscale tech-savvy buyers. To downsize the Genesis to fit this segment would be a huge mistake on Hyundai's part. This move would alienate the demographic audience who are buying the current models.

Hyundai would better serve the buying public by leaving the Genesis platform alone save for refinements in the suspension and brakes. If you are looking for a smaller, lighter Uber Sedan, Hyundai better be listening.

Of course, that's my take. I could be wrong.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark_888 with respect, this IS all about the 12-14 R specs because that is what is out there getting drive time. Look back in the thread and you'll see nearly all posts are from current R spec owners.

With all due respect, the title of this thread (and my previous comments) relate to "I've got solid info on the next R Spec sedan." Not the 2012-2014, but the 2015+ second generation.

The fact that many people have posted about the 2012-2014 is the thing I am objecting to. You can't justify that simply on the basis that some have done it. If that were true, there would never be an off-topic post in a forum.

If a new R-Spec (if it actually comes) is like the 2012-2014, my opinion is that Hyundai would have already done it since the previous R-Spec was only minor changes from the regular 5.0 V8: slightly stiffer suspension, larger rims, and slightly different trim (very slight), etc. In fact, that is one reason the non-R-Spec V8 was discontinued, since it was not much different than the regular V8. But the 2015 V8 Ultimate already has adjustable suspension and transmission (with sport mode), and the wheels probably can't get much larger (different sizes front and rear), so I am guessing that if there is a new R-Spec, it is going to be a lot different than a 2015 5.0 V8 Ultimate next time.

 

[DRS]

Twin turbo V6 with all it's add on junk would not likely be lighter than the current V8.

Ask Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Ford... Their high performance "replacement" turbo 6 or small V8 are no lighter. And in some cases higher weight than the naturally aspirated V8 they are replacing.

They use the turbos because:

1.) silly millennials who are now King pin engineers at these companies have fetish over turbo engines. Many of them played with turbos as kids in cars like the WRX and others in Europe. 2.) executives who want to "look hip" fixate on turbo engines 3.) some small merit on CO2 emission reduction (unless the V8 has cylinder deactivation) 4.) BIG TAXES in Japan, Europe huge .giv taxes on displacement in many locations. 5.) the hipster millennial engineers prefer the sputtering crap sound over the manly V8 , 6.) some indications the torque massive better and is flatter in a turbo 6 verses a V8. This is somewhat false when it comes to American iron, or the Genesis 5.0 which has its roots in Ford modular V8 system and head/intake design. V8 torque is good. 7.) rumors of better mileage with smaller displacement turbos. Well, real world is killing that rumor. No better mileage, and worse in some cases. On occasion driving steady Eddie on highways with light load a sputtering turbo will beat the refined V8 in mileage.

This whole turbo thing as a cure all and superior solution is a fad. Only the government regulations can save this fad.. As the last couple times turbos came into mainstream, leave out the government and hipster sputtering crap, V8s will rule as the superior performance and work engines (trucks) for decades to come. Sure electricity driven engines will make a serous run at some point. We will see...

Posting this to counter the lemming like groupie think about twin turbos, or turbos in general. Oh, before pouncing on this.. Yes, I have owned three turbo cars. I liked them.. Liked them if they kept the whoosh and whine of the turbos loud enough to cover up the sputtering 4 or 6 cylinder rice burner sounds out of the exhaust. Otherwise it was an embarrassment. Oh, one of the three was a GNX... The fastest accelerating production car of its time. Sure wish it had a modern V8 instead.

Hyundai has been reported to admit that the 5.0 platform could be punched out to as much a 6.4 liters. Easy to go to 5.5. Gee, keep the 5.0 for everyday, and get 500+ hp and 500 ft lbs out of the V8 el natural if desired and needed. Would be real nice also to have a Raptor engine + under the hood. Since Hyundai has the Ford roots from the 4.6-5.0 V8, going to larger displacement is not a bad consideration if designed with modern fuel mileage features.

 

[DRS]

What we have with the V8 Genesis is special. Something the common Europeans, Lexus, Infiniti, and Cadillac are wrongly abandoning... And there is NOTHING like what we have in our price class with V8 of our stature. Chrysler products excepted. Years from now when the industry is forced to offer 3 cylinder 38lbs boost crap with electric assist or primary propulsion, we will look fondly on owning a Genesis V8. Keep the V8 as long as possible.

I will make the leap to a Tesla or like product by then. After driving the P85+ and base 85, it is the only thing that compares to the overall refined and no muss or fuss power of a V8. Actually it kills anything out there.. At 4024 foot pounds of torque available, and over. 400hp, it is amazing thing to experience. Yes, 4000 foot pounds available. When taken to most dyno, they are overloaded. Most have a limit of around 2000 foot pounds. Only the largest dyno can measure its torque. Check out the videos. Anyway, by then fast power replenishment hopefully will be mature and ubiquitous.

In the mean time, if I have the need for max sedan speed, will have to order a Charger Supercharged coming out sometime in 2015 709HP, 700 foot pound and 8 speed auto. That and the Challenger will be the GNX of our day. And produced by Fiat of all people.

In the end, if the Genny has a V8, there will always be one in our garage. From a overall perspective, it is something special.

 

[DRS]

The atrocity of weight with the V8 ultimate over the V6 centers around the added crap and glass roof. A ultimate equipped V6 is much closer to the V8 weight than listed above in past posts. The V8, they add more chassis stiffness (95-125 lbs someone said to handle the power) too. The V8 is heavier than a plain V6. Add all the turbo stuff, intercooling, radiators, and more, the V6 will likely be just as heavy or close to the V8. And no real significant improvement in weight balance, if history repeats compared to others.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

The atrocity of weight with the V8 ultimate over the V6 centers around the added crap and glass roof. A ultimate equipped V6 is much closer to the V8 weight than listed above in past posts. The V8, they add more chassis stiffness (95-125 lbs someone said to handle the power) too. The V8 is heavier than a plain V6. Add all the turbo stuff, intercooling, radiators, and more, the V6 will likely be just as heavy or close to the V8. And no real significant improvement in weight balance, if history repeats compared to others.

^ Not to start a war here, but I agree with DRS, and frankly will never forget my normally aspirated V10 powered S8, which most people called a sport sedan in its day. I am enjoying my R-Spec (call it anything you want) and I'll call it a great car.

 

[leadfoot rspec13]

Can I get an "AMEN"?

 

[Mark_888]

None of this matters to me personally, because if I purchase another Genesis, it will be a V6 (and not a twin turbo version). So I don't care at all about what Hyundai decides on this issue.

But if Hyundai does produce a V6 twin turbo and put in an R-Spec, V8 bigots should not feel disappointed because the 2015 5.0 Ultimate already has a sport mode (adjustable suspension and transmission), and very large tires (bigger than 2012-2014 R-Spec) for those who must have a V8. Then just buy an R-Spec badge and stick on your V8 and you will be all set.

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[DRS]

We V8 fans bring balance to the troll V6 "bigots". Like a V6, great... Genny V6 is one of the best in the world as it sits IMO. "Bigots" of sputtering factory tuner V6 and I4s, that bring their metrosexual views on V8s will get a response by those who understand the benefits of el natural and boosted V8s.

+1 that S8 was viewed as a sports sedan. Amazing one.

 

[geops]

I just got my 2013 r-spec so I'll be replacing it in about 5 years. Hopefully by then we'll have a nice V8 with an r-spec badge and they would've had a few years to clean up all the problems that pop up on 1st and 2nd year releases of new generations. I really want a bigger naturally aspirated V8 - hopefully closer to the SRT8 engines (6.4L).

 

[leadfoot rspec13]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, we have a V6 guy calling us R spec owners V8 "bigots"?

Perhaps his credibility quotient would increase if he logged some verifiable seat time in a R spec.

Anyone who has ever owned a V8 powered anything can attest these engines aren't working hard at cruising speeds and the grin factor increases exponentially with judicious application of the "go" pedal. There's no waiting for a turbo to spool up, no running at ludicrous RPMs to keep it in the power band, just instant gratification my brothers.

If Hyundai wants to get the CAFE numbers higher, put a cylinder deactivation program like the AFM GM installed in my G8 GT and you'll see mid to high 20 MPG with the big overdrive gearing in the 8-speed auto.

If the future holds dual clutch automatics with paddles, great. Sort out the suspension, put in big grippy brakes and I'll subscribe for life.

Just leave the overstressed buzzy things to the kids.

 

[Mark_888]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, we have a V6 guy calling us R spec owners V8 "bigots"?

Perhaps his credibility quotient would increase if he logged some verifiable seat time in a R spec.

Anyone who has ever owned a V8 powered anything can attest these engines aren't working hard at cruising speeds and the grin factor increases exponentially with judicious application of the "go" pedal. There's no waiting for a turbo to spool up, no running at ludicrous RPMs to keep it in the power band, just instant gratification my brothers.

If Hyundai wants to get the CAFE numbers higher, put a cylinder deactivation program like the AFM GM installed in my G8 GT and you'll see mid to high 20 MPG with the big overdrive gearing in the 8-speed auto.

If the future holds dual clutch automatics with paddles, great. Sort out the suspension, put in big grippy brakes and I'll subscribe for life.

Just leave the overstressed buzzy things to the kids.

I am sincerely sorry for calling anyone a V8 bigot. What I meant by "V8 bigot" is someone who prefers a V8 to a V6 Twin Turbo that might have more HP and faster 0-60 time than the V8. I have no problem with anyone who wants a V8 (or anything else) from this "supposed" R-Spec that may or may not be coming.

My personal preference in a sporty car is that I like a car that is lighter, has 50-50 F/R weight balance (or as close as possible), stops quickly, and is reasonably nimble, and excellent handling. In other words, fun to drive. If you want call me a V6 bigot because of that, I plead guilty. I realize that others prefer muscle cars with straight ahead speed over those other qualities.

I really don't care what Hyundai delivers, because I won't be buying an R-Spec even if does have a V6 Twin Turbo. I was just trying to use common sense to predict what Hyundai will do. It just seems to me that the rumors of a V6 Twin Turbo (initially mentioned by others, not me) could be true because:

1. The current V8 is too heavy to be a sporty car (especially too front heavy).
2. The current V8 Ultimate already has a sport suspension/transmission setting (adjustable), so a V8 5.0 R-Spec wouldn't really offer much more than already exists in the V8 5.0 Ultimate.
3. But if the R-Spec was going to the Tau V8 5.0, it is hard to understand what they are waiting for, since they already have that engine ready to go. So "maybe" the R-Spec will be a different engine that doesn't exist now, and a V6 Twin Turbo seem more practical than an even larger V8 (and could be used in other Hyundai/Kia vehicles).

But as I said, I have no skin in this game, and don't personally care what Hyundai does in this space, since I will not be buying R-Spec. I hope you get what you are hoping for from Hyundai, if and when they build an R-Spec.

 

[leadfoot rspec13]

Thanks for lighting up the peace pipe,sir.

By the time I'll be ready to replace my R spec, we'll be arguing over a hydrogen fuel cell thread.

 

[craigt]

Anyone who has ever owned a V8 powered anything can attest these engines aren't working hard at cruising speeds and the grin factor increases exponentially with judicious application of the "go" pedal. There's no waiting for a turbo to spool up, no running at ludicrous RPMs to keep it in the power band, just instant gratification my brothers.

I owned a V8 powered anything. A 1989 Firebird Formula with a 5.0 V8 getting a whopping 190hp. My 3.8 Genesis with 333hp is the equivalent of an 8.75 liter V8 using the same technology. That V8 also sucked in gas faster than anything else I've owned. Luckily gas was "cheap" back then.

Be careful of the term "anything".

 

[DRS]

I just got my 2013 r-spec so I'll be replacing it in about 5 years. Hopefully by then we'll have a nice V8 with an r-spec badge and they would've had a few years to clean up all the problems that pop up on 1st and 2nd year releases of new generations. I really want a bigger naturally aspirated V8 - hopefully closer to the SRT8 engines (6.4L).

How about the new V8 709hp and 700ft lb Hemi coming out? Maybe Hyundai will take the Ford 650hp 5.4 route. Although rumor the next SVT Ford DOHC will be over 725-750 street horsepower in new high end Mustang. Imagine that kind of power in a sedan like the Genny. Or even the Equus.

Shelby American took this last gen of Mustang GT500 to 750hp for daily driving. And Ford covered the warranty for these souped up Shelby's since the GT500 came out. The last GT500 factory at 650hp was based in part on mods from Shelby prior. So, easy to deduce they can go to 750HP as Shelby already has.

Hyundai could take this V8 platform and do amazing things with it. I bet there is internal battle between engineers and executives... The rice burners verses the V8 guys.. They tend to have a sputtering tuner culture over in Korea.

 

[PMCErnie]

Ho-hum. Seems to me the solution is to buy the V6 and just put a sock in your pants when you need to impress.

 

[DRS]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, we have a V6 guy calling us R spec owners V8 "bigots"?



Perhaps his credibility quotient would increase if he logged some verifiable seat time in a R spec.



Anyone who has ever owned a V8 powered anything can attest these engines aren't working hard at cruising speeds and the grin factor increases exponentially with judicious application of the "go" pedal. There's no waiting for a turbo to spool up, no running at ludicrous RPMs to keep it in the power band, just instant gratification my brothers.



If Hyundai wants to get the CAFE numbers higher, put a cylinder deactivation program like the AFM GM installed in my G8 GT and you'll see mid to high 20 MPG with the big overdrive gearing in the 8-speed auto.



If the future holds dual clutch automatics with paddles, great. Sort out the suspension, put in big grippy brakes and I'll subscribe for life.



Just leave the overstressed buzzy things to the kids.

+1 ^^^

 

[DRS]

I am sincerely sorry for calling anyone a V8 bigot. What I meant by "V8 bigot" is someone who prefers a V8 to a V6 Twin Turbo that might have more HP and faster 0-60 time than the V8. I have no problem with anyone who wants a V8 (or anything else) from this "supposed" R-Spec that may or may not be coming.



My personal preference in a sporty car is that I like a car that is lighter, has 50-50 F/R weight balance (or as close as possible), stops quickly, and is reasonably nimble, and excellent handling. In other words, fun to drive. If you want call me a V6 bigot because of that, I plead guilty. I realize that others prefer muscle cars with straight ahead speed over those other qualities.



I really don't care what Hyundai delivers, because I won't be buying an R-Spec even if does have a V6 Twin Turbo. I was just trying to use common sense to predict what Hyundai will do. It just seems to me that the rumors of a V6 Twin Turbo (initially mentioned by others, not me) could be true because:

1. The current V8 is too heavy to be a sporty car (especially too front heavy).
   
2. The current V8 Ultimate already has a sport suspension/transmission setting (adjustable), so a V8 5.0 R-Spec wouldn't really offer much more than already exists in the V8 5.0 Ultimate.
   
3. But if the R-Spec was going to the Tau V8 5.0, it is hard to understand what they are waiting for, since they already have that engine ready to go. So "maybe" the R-Spec will be a different engine that doesn't exist now, and a V6 Twin Turbo seem more practical than an even larger V8 (and could be used in other Hyundai/Kia vehicles).
   

But as I said, I have no skin in this game, and don't personally care what Hyundai does in this space, since I will not be buying R-Spec. I hope you get what you are hoping for from Hyundai, if and when they build an R-Spec.

He did not listen to one thing I said. Just keeps talking.

The TTV6 with all its cooling and plumbing is NO lighter than a V8 like the TAU. Just ask Ford, now Cadillac. And the Germans have the same issue... Their TT V6 rice tuner motors are as heavy as any TAU.

The weight increase of the V8 ultimate is mostly from all the add on stuff I mentioned above. A V6 ultimate is heavier than the base.

The V8 chassis is destined for More horsepower and higher speeds and feeds. And has more bracing and heavier components for the higher horsepower. Any TTV6 would have the same chassis.

Again, the GDI TT V6, using what is available today, would be as heavy as the Tau V8.

This is really a battle of two cultures. One are the sharp tongued tuner types who must like the sputtering low displacement motors better than a V8. Ok, so what.

And then we have those who relish the sound of a refined or loud V8, and disprove the false conventional wisdom of tuner card being better.

I hope the V8 factions win to keep aggressive V8 development (natural and blown) within Hyundai. This is a big competitive advantage of theirs... Assuming new potential customers who come from high strung factory attempts as tuners, give the V8 a serious look. Add the rest of is that know better, they will sell lots of higher end cars and gather a world wide top reputation.