My Shocking Genesis Dealership Experience...

[steveinarizona]

Certainly part of the problem. Visualize a customer service waiting area. There are eight seats in it. Six of them are metal folding chairs, but two of them are luxurious recliners and the sign says "Genesis Owners Only"

Until we get enough stand alone dealers, there will be compromise. I'm fortunate that my dealer has a nice facility, but evidently. some do not.

Good point. I drove by my dealer yesterday (on my way to Costco; the showroom and sales already moved to high end mall a few miles away) and the separate Genesis service building looks almost complete. It will still share the boundaries of the Hyundai dealership but will be a separate space.

However, I just googled and found the proposal to the City of Scottsdale. It says:

"The owner agrees that no oil, transmission fluid, anti-freeze, grease, etch will be disposed of in the sanitary sewer. Therefore no sand/oil interceptor is required on the Genesis service center building. The service bays in this building are intended for the service of electric vehicles. The existing Hyundai building has a sand/oil interceptor that will remain."​

I don't know whether this has been changed or whether those driving ICE vehicles will have to use the Hyundai service building (that seems unlikely unless they will take the cars in at the Genesis building and then drive the ICE vehicles to the service bays in the other building and reverse the process upon completion).

 

[Looney100]

Good point. I drove by my dealer yesterday (on my way to Costco; the showroom and sales already moved to high end mall a few miles away) and the separate Genesis service building looks almost complete. It will still share the boundaries of the Hyundai dealership but will be a separate space.

However, I just googled and found the proposal to the City of Scottsdale. It says:

"The owner agrees that no oil, transmission fluid, anti-freeze, grease, etch will be disposed of in the sanitary sewer. Therefore no sand/oil interceptor is required on the Genesis service center building. The service bays in this building are intended for the service of electric vehicles. The existing Hyundai building has a sand/oil interceptor that will remain."​

I don't know whether this has been changed or whether those driving ICE vehicles will have to use the Hyundai service building (that seems unlikely unless they will take the cars in at the Genesis building and then drive the ICE vehicles to the service bays in the other building and reverse the process upon completion).

My local Genesis location is right beside the Hyundai dealership, and they share the same service bays and mechanics.

 

[srobak]

Price has been creeping up. [...] My 2018 G80 Ultimate, AWD stickered at $55,555. Same thing now is $64.350 and you can go to $75k with the Sport Prestige.

Even accounting for our exaggerated inflation - that is beyond excessive, and is being done largely in part to cover the expense of these ridiculous showrooms. Any way you slice it - the car is not 35% better to warrant that kind of price increase.

This is not out of line with other luxury dealerships. For a brand like Genesis that is still trying to establish itself in the luxury segment, I think 'setting the scene' is especially important.

But Genesis is not like other lux brands, either. And at least before - they were not trying to be. They had positioned themselves in the market as a budget-conscious, luxury brand. Skipping all the frilly nonsense that resulted in the upcharges of the other brands to help keep the prices more respectable in initial offerings like the DH series G80 and the G90. Yes - this includes overly gaudy showrooms and crap in the car like pop-up speakers and perfume spritzers. These showrooms are trying to upstage the established lux brands. Not even Lexus tries to do that. Genny is trying to turn over the sandbox that Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche all play in - without having the proper elements to play in it in the first place. Declining quality, severely lacking service, excessive costs and being almost devoid of heritage are all playing against the in that game.

Genny should stick on the outside edge of the sandbox like they were. They did really well there for quite some time - and would have continued to do so. An improved & dedicated showroom & service center was certainly in the need - but the method they have chosen to go with is way out of line for the brand. They should have followed Lexus' example - building slightly more upscale facilities and focusing mostly on their product. This established Lex and brought the customers to them. They didn't have to try to go to the customer and wow them with oooh's and aaah's.

It's absolutely necessary if they want to compete with other luxury brands. I've driven Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. My experience at the Hyundai dealership wasn't even close to my previous experiences.

See what I mentioned above. Yes the dealership and service experience needed to be improved - but it did not need to try to leapfrog over the established players just in showroom & service lounge wow-factor without the teeth to back it up. By no stretch does Genny have that pedigree - and no matter how hard they try they cannot force their way into it. All they will do is force out loyal customers that built them up to where they think they now are. This could have easily been maintained by taking the Acura or Lexus route for their showrooms and service centers vs. trying to even bypass the Germans and go for the Rolls Royce route. This is yet another critical error in Genesis' attempts to establish themselves, and the sales numbers show it. They have certainly forgotten their original target market and where their place is with this line in the industry.

In fact, I have friends who love my GV70 but will never get one because they refuse to go to a Hyundai dealership. A lil snobby, yes. But it's their money and they want the full luxury experience.

Well - they can't get one at a Hyundai dealership anymore. If they want the full luxury experience then they need to go to a full luxury brand and pay the full luxury price. That's not Genesis. And it shouldn't be.

I get that it's difficult for some people to understand why some might value intangibles like luxury, when they themselves either don't recognize or value it, or have a different idea of what luxury means. Nothing wrong with either opinion - some people don't care for what they perceive as frills and don't want to pay for them, while others enjoy and want them. To each his own. I'm pretty sure however that any manufacturer that wants to compete in the so-called luxury auto segment needs the sort of things you're showing in that dealership.

No - I get it. I've owned a couple of 7 series and a Lincoln, a few in my family are long-term Merc & BMW owners, and my company uses E3505's and A8's for the C-suite. My point is that this is not the space Genesis belongs in. That has not been their target demographic until recently - and they do not have the pedigree, heritage, quality or even product to play in the Maybach & Rolls space like their showroom and service lounge attempts to portray. Genesis' place in the market is that of a budget or value alternative to the standard luxury brands with too many 0's in their pricetags. That is where they started, that is what their target market has been, and that is the customer who made them what they are today - at least outside of S. Korea.

Nicer clientele and less crowded. Intangible luxury.

You can still have nicer clientele at a less crowded (and yet still exclusive) facility without the overly dripping gaudiness that is these new service lounges and showrooms. How much less crowded do you want them to be? They are always empty. Just furthers that it was essentially a waste and the cost is passed on to the owner - unnecessarily. The amount of un-drank coffee they throw away every day could raise Juan Valdez from the grave. If you want intangible luxury - then buy an intangible quality brand. Again - that's not Genesis.

At some point, management thought "hey, we have a real luxury winner" Then Genesis broke off as a separate brand and while the prices have been increasing, dealer care was lagging and the original plan to open stand alone dealers was in the courts. Now they are finally able to do it but it was a struggle. Will still take a long time. [...] Seems some don't want to invest in upgrades in customer care.

I'm all for the stand-alone dealers, exclusive lounges and service centers. They could even be notably stepped up from a typical dealership. But it didn't need all this that it has become. By doing so they are alienating the folks who made them "a real luxury winner".

I was a BMW owner prior to my GV60P. I did not change because the genesis was "budget friendly"; I chose because Genesis offered me a better choice for my needs. If the GV60P were made by BMW, I would probably still be driving a BMW. I agree with the others here; it is not excessive and is in fact necessary.

I've had two 7 series - and all the dealer perks that went with it. Those perks don't make or break a brand or a product. The product itself does, as does the quality of the product and the service & support. You don't need an empty room full of $2500 lounge chairs, trickling wall fountains and bubbling indoor brooks to make a better product or provide better service.

If one wants a budget friendly "luxury" car, look to Infinity or Acura.

You forgot Genesis. No matter how expensive they make the showroom - it's still a Genesis. They are trying too desperately to get into a sandbox they do not have the chops, history, quality or product offering to play in. A vagazzled showroom and service lounge is not going to change that.

</rant>

 

[Trixie86]

Even accounting for our exaggerated inflation - that is beyond excessive, and is being done largely in part to cover the expense of these ridiculous showrooms. Any way you slice it - the car is not 35% better to warrant that kind of price increase.



But Genesis is not like other lux brands, either. And at least before - they were not trying to be. They had positioned themselves in the market as a budget-conscious, luxury brand. Skipping all the frilly nonsense that resulted in the upcharges of the other brands to help keep the prices more respectable in initial offerings like the DH series G80 and the G90. Yes - this includes overly gaudy showrooms and crap in the car like pop-up speakers and perfume spritzers. These showrooms are trying to upstage the established lux brands. Not even Lexus tries to do that. Genny is trying to turn over the sandbox that Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche all play in - without having the proper elements to play in it in the first place. Declining quality, severely lacking service, excessive costs and being almost devoid of heritage are all playing against the in that game.

Genny should stick on the outside edge of the sandbox like they were. They did really well there for quite some time - and would have continued to do so. An improved & dedicated showroom & service center was certainly in the need - but the method they have chosen to go with is way out of line for the brand. They should have followed Lexus' example - building slightly more upscale facilities and focusing mostly on their product. This established Lex and brought the customers to them. They didn't have to try to go to the customer and wow them with oooh's and aaah's.



See what I mentioned above. Yes the dealership and service experience needed to be improved - but it did not need to try to leapfrog over the established players just in showroom & service lounge wow-factor without the teeth to back it up. By no stretch does Genny have that pedigree - and no matter how hard they try they cannot force their way into it. All they will do is force out loyal customers that built them up to where they think they now are. This could have easily been maintained by taking the Acura or Lexus route for their showrooms and service centers vs. trying to even bypass the Germans and go for the Rolls Royce route. This is yet another critical error in Genesis' attempts to establish themselves, and the sales numbers show it. They have certainly forgotten their original target market and where their place is with this line in the industry.



Well - they can't get one at a Hyundai dealership anymore. If they want the full luxury experience then they need to go to a full luxury brand and pay the full luxury price. That's not Genesis. And it shouldn't be.



No - I get it. I've owned a couple of 7 series and a Lincoln, a few in my family are long-term Merc & BMW owners, and my company uses E3505's and A8's for the C-suite. My point is that this is not the space Genesis belongs in. That has not been their target demographic until recently - and they do not have the pedigree, heritage, quality or even product to play in the Maybach & Rolls space like their showroom and service lounge attempts to portray. Genesis' place in the market is that of a budget or value alternative to the standard luxury brands with too many 0's in their pricetags. That is where they started, that is what their target market has been, and that is the customer who made them what they are today - at least outside of S. Korea.



You can still have nicer clientele at a less crowded (and yet still exclusive) facility without the overly dripping gaudiness that is these new service lounges and showrooms. How much less crowded do you want them to be? They are always empty. Just furthers that it was essentially a waste and the cost is passed on to the owner - unnecessarily. The amount of un-drank coffee they throw away every day could raise Juan Valdez from the grave. If you want intangible luxury - then buy an intangible quality brand. Again - that's not Genesis.



I'm all for the stand-alone dealers, exclusive lounges and service centers. They could even be notably stepped up from a typical dealership. But it didn't need all this that it has become. By doing so they are alienating the folks who made them "a real luxury winner".



I've had two 7 series - and all the dealer perks that went with it. Those perks don't make or break a brand or a product. The product itself does, as does the quality of the product and the service & support. You don't need an empty room full of $2500 lounge chairs, trickling wall fountains and bubbling indoor brooks to make a better product or provide better service.



You forgot Genesis. No matter how expensive they make the showroom - it's still a Genesis. They are trying too desperately to get into a sandbox they do not have the chops, history, quality or product offering to play in. A vagazzled showroom and service lounge is not going to change that.

</rant>

So are you going to buy another Genesis?

 

[SirJangle]

Even accounting for our exaggerated inflation - that is beyond excessive, and is being done largely in part to cover the expense of these ridiculous showrooms. Any way you slice it - the car is not 35% better to warrant that kind of price increase.



But Genesis is not like other lux brands, either. And at least before - they were not trying to be. They had positioned themselves in the market as a budget-conscious, luxury brand. Skipping all the frilly nonsense that resulted in the upcharges of the other brands to help keep the prices more respectable in initial offerings like the DH series G80 and the G90. Yes - this includes overly gaudy showrooms and crap in the car like pop-up speakers and perfume spritzers. These showrooms are trying to upstage the established lux brands. Not even Lexus tries to do that. Genny is trying to turn over the sandbox that Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche all play in - without having the proper elements to play in it in the first place. Declining quality, severely lacking service, excessive costs and being almost devoid of heritage are all playing against the in that game.

Genny should stick on the outside edge of the sandbox like they were. They did really well there for quite some time - and would have continued to do so. An improved & dedicated showroom & service center was certainly in the need - but the method they have chosen to go with is way out of line for the brand. They should have followed Lexus' example - building slightly more upscale facilities and focusing mostly on their product. This established Lex and brought the customers to them. They didn't have to try to go to the customer and wow them with oooh's and aaah's.



See what I mentioned above. Yes the dealership and service experience needed to be improved - but it did not need to try to leapfrog over the established players just in showroom & service lounge wow-factor without the teeth to back it up. By no stretch does Genny have that pedigree - and no matter how hard they try they cannot force their way into it. All they will do is force out loyal customers that built them up to where they think they now are. This could have easily been maintained by taking the Acura or Lexus route for their showrooms and service centers vs. trying to even bypass the Germans and go for the Rolls Royce route. This is yet another critical error in Genesis' attempts to establish themselves, and the sales numbers show it. They have certainly forgotten their original target market and where their place is with this line in the industry.



Well - they can't get one at a Hyundai dealership anymore. If they want the full luxury experience then they need to go to a full luxury brand and pay the full luxury price. That's not Genesis. And it shouldn't be.



No - I get it. I've owned a couple of 7 series and a Lincoln, a few in my family are long-term Merc & BMW owners, and my company uses E3505's and A8's for the C-suite. My point is that this is not the space Genesis belongs in. That has not been their target demographic until recently - and they do not have the pedigree, heritage, quality or even product to play in the Maybach & Rolls space like their showroom and service lounge attempts to portray. Genesis' place in the market is that of a budget or value alternative to the standard luxury brands with too many 0's in their pricetags. That is where they started, that is what their target market has been, and that is the customer who made them what they are today - at least outside of S. Korea.



You can still have nicer clientele at a less crowded (and yet still exclusive) facility without the overly dripping gaudiness that is these new service lounges and showrooms. How much less crowded do you want them to be? They are always empty. Just furthers that it was essentially a waste and the cost is passed on to the owner - unnecessarily. The amount of un-drank coffee they throw away every day could raise Juan Valdez from the grave. If you want intangible luxury - then buy an intangible quality brand. Again - that's not Genesis.



I'm all for the stand-alone dealers, exclusive lounges and service centers. They could even be notably stepped up from a typical dealership. But it didn't need all this that it has become. By doing so they are alienating the folks who made them "a real luxury winner".



I've had two 7 series - and all the dealer perks that went with it. Those perks don't make or break a brand or a product. The product itself does, as does the quality of the product and the service & support. You don't need an empty room full of $2500 lounge chairs, trickling wall fountains and bubbling indoor brooks to make a better product or provide better service.



You forgot Genesis. No matter how expensive they make the showroom - it's still a Genesis. They are trying too desperately to get into a sandbox they do not have the chops, history, quality or product offering to play in. A vagazzled showroom and service lounge is not going to change that.

</rant>

I'm not expecting Genesis to be BMW, Mercedes, RR, etc. I'm expecting them to behave, appear, and service like a luxury brand since they claim to be and cost much more than a typical brand. It's as simple as I want what I paid for.

 

[azurecardinal]

Even accounting for our exaggerated inflation - that is beyond excessive, and is being done largely in part to cover the expense of these ridiculous showrooms. Any way you slice it - the car is not 35% better to warrant that kind of price increase.



But Genesis is not like other lux brands, either. And at least before - they were not trying to be. They had positioned themselves in the market as a budget-conscious, luxury brand. Skipping all the frilly nonsense that resulted in the upcharges of the other brands to help keep the prices more respectable in initial offerings like the DH series G80 and the G90. Yes - this includes overly gaudy showrooms and crap in the car like pop-up speakers and perfume spritzers. These showrooms are trying to upstage the established lux brands. Not even Lexus tries to do that. Genny is trying to turn over the sandbox that Merc, BMW, Audi and Porsche all play in - without having the proper elements to play in it in the first place. Declining quality, severely lacking service, excessive costs and being almost devoid of heritage are all playing against the in that game.

Genny should stick on the outside edge of the sandbox like they were. They did really well there for quite some time - and would have continued to do so. An improved & dedicated showroom & service center was certainly in the need - but the method they have chosen to go with is way out of line for the brand. They should have followed Lexus' example - building slightly more upscale facilities and focusing mostly on their product. This established Lex and brought the customers to them. They didn't have to try to go to the customer and wow them with oooh's and aaah's.



See what I mentioned above. Yes the dealership and service experience needed to be improved - but it did not need to try to leapfrog over the established players just in showroom & service lounge wow-factor without the teeth to back it up. By no stretch does Genny have that pedigree - and no matter how hard they try they cannot force their way into it. All they will do is force out loyal customers that built them up to where they think they now are. This could have easily been maintained by taking the Acura or Lexus route for their showrooms and service centers vs. trying to even bypass the Germans and go for the Rolls Royce route. This is yet another critical error in Genesis' attempts to establish themselves, and the sales numbers show it. They have certainly forgotten their original target market and where their place is with this line in the industry.



Well - they can't get one at a Hyundai dealership anymore. If they want the full luxury experience then they need to go to a full luxury brand and pay the full luxury price. That's not Genesis. And it shouldn't be.



No - I get it. I've owned a couple of 7 series and a Lincoln, a few in my family are long-term Merc & BMW owners, and my company uses E3505's and A8's for the C-suite. My point is that this is not the space Genesis belongs in. That has not been their target demographic until recently - and they do not have the pedigree, heritage, quality or even product to play in the Maybach & Rolls space like their showroom and service lounge attempts to portray. Genesis' place in the market is that of a budget or value alternative to the standard luxury brands with too many 0's in their pricetags. That is where they started, that is what their target market has been, and that is the customer who made them what they are today - at least outside of S. Korea.



You can still have nicer clientele at a less crowded (and yet still exclusive) facility without the overly dripping gaudiness that is these new service lounges and showrooms. How much less crowded do you want them to be? They are always empty. Just furthers that it was essentially a waste and the cost is passed on to the owner - unnecessarily. The amount of un-drank coffee they throw away every day could raise Juan Valdez from the grave. If you want intangible luxury - then buy an intangible quality brand. Again - that's not Genesis.



I'm all for the stand-alone dealers, exclusive lounges and service centers. They could even be notably stepped up from a typical dealership. But it didn't need all this that it has become. By doing so they are alienating the folks who made them "a real luxury winner".



I've had two 7 series - and all the dealer perks that went with it. Those perks don't make or break a brand or a product. The product itself does, as does the quality of the product and the service & support. You don't need an empty room full of $2500 lounge chairs, trickling wall fountains and bubbling indoor brooks to make a better product or provide better service.



You forgot Genesis. No matter how expensive they make the showroom - it's still a Genesis. They are trying too desperately to get into a sandbox they do not have the chops, history, quality or product offering to play in. A vagazzled showroom and service lounge is not going to change that.

</rant>

I appreciate your rant and can understand where you're coming from, you are certainly entitled to hold that view point about the need for chops or history behind a brand before buying a car. However, I don't think that's at all what Genesis is going after with upgrading their showrooms and service center experience.

Whenever I recommend Genesis to anyone who is used to the luxury car segment such as Porsche or Mercedes, it has almost always been "The cars they make are absolutely fantastic, as long as you don't mind the dealership or service experience." To most shoppers in the luxury segment, they care a lot less about price, and much more so about the overall experience of owning the vehicle. This effort of Genesis to boost their showrooms and service centers targets exactly that segment of buyers by eliminating the brand's greatest apparent weakness in delivering a excellent overall experience.

It's the right move by Genesis all round, and even if the move bumps up the price of the Genesis vehicles by 10%, it would've been well worth the additional interests that it would very likely generate within the luxury segment. Never underestimate how much value deep pockets assign to perceived experience.

That and somehow I doubt BMW or Mercedes is very respectful of their history or legacy with their "modern" designs.

 

[Backslack]

All they will do is force out loyal customers that built them up to where they think they now are.

People were saying the same thing once the G80 and G90 were introduced following the original Hyundai Genesis and Equus with their respective price increases. Old men stuffing their money in a mattress will always yell at clouds.

A 2010 Equus Ultimate with an MSRP of $64,500 would now be ~$93,332 with inflation taken into account. That's only $6K less than the current loaded G90 with the electric supercharger. And this was before Genesis even existed, when Hyundai was branded only as selling "value alternatives". I'm pretty confident most people would be fine spending an additional $6K on an already $90K+ vehicle if it meant they got better service.

By the way, a barebones base model RWD BMW 740i is $97K. Mercedes S500 starts at $117K. A base E350 4-cylinder begins at $63K. The average price of a new car is $47K. The reality is that your dollar isn't worth what it used to be.

 

[srobak]

So are you going to buy another Genesis?

Probably not another new one. Until a couple weeks ago a 2nd Genesis was under serious consideration for me. Now it no longer is. It may be again in the future - but it will likely be a pre-2023 G90 and most likely wont even be CPO for the same reasons I stated above. As a very early adopter - I enjoyed the Genny I did have, what it provided and at the cost it provided it. Genesis appears to have forgotten that market.

I appreciate your rant and can understand where you're coming from, you are certainly entitled to hold that view point about the need for chops or history behind a brand before buying a car. However, I don't think that's at all what Genesis is going after with upgrading their showrooms and service center experience.

And therein lies the problem. The brand had already established itself - but in it's correct place. It was a budget/value luxury car. It did quite well there - across the entire line. Now they think they can jump in the big-boy pond like Lexus did - yet without going through the process that Lexus did. They could have easily upgraded the showroom and service experiences without going to the extremes that they have in these empty, cookie-cutter facilities they are pumping out. And they should have.

Whenever I recommend Genesis to anyone who is used to the luxury car segment such as Porsche or Mercedes, it has almost always been "The cars they make are absolutely fantastic, as long as you don't mind the dealership or service experience."

Yes, I remember those days, along with the "but it's a Hyundai" days as well. I was a "G80" owner in 2015 - and everyone was endless impressed with this cool new style of car I was showing them and that they were riding in - until I told them the brand. When I told them I preferred it to either of my 7's they were flabbergasted.
Yeah - the service experience was a bit sub-par - but it was manageable and Genesis was still teething at the time. There had to be some forms of compromise to get 5-series luxury and features at a 3-series price. That's where it fell for the time being. I knew there would be standalones coming and that it would also fix a lot of those problems. What I did not expect was feeling like I was walking into a Rolls dealer and seeing all my money invested in fountains and empty, multi-thousand dollar lounge chairs. Again - those things do not make the dealership or service experience.

To most shoppers in the luxury segment, they care a lot less about price, and much more so about the overall experience of owning the vehicle. This effort of Genesis to boost their showrooms and service centers targets exactly that segment of buyers by eliminating the brand's greatest apparent weakness in delivering a excellent overall experience.

Problem is - Genesis wasn't in the luxury segment. They were in the budget-luxury segment. They changed the game - and didn't bother to tell the players while driving the busses away with the players standing on the field. You can't just enter the market, plant a flag and shout "I'm here!" There is a process to building and earning the reputation. Do that right and the customers will come to you - you wont have to go to them. Blowing wads of cash on flashy showrooms and gaudy lounges does nothing to fix the actual issue of brand weakness. It simply puts lipstick on it.

The same problems still exist - even at those dripping dealerships. There are still few loaners, the lead times are still long, there is still limited concierge service, the cars are in the shop for days when it should be hours, and weeks or even months when it should be days, the parts are still backordered, and there are still only 1 or 2 mechanics in a shop with 8 to 14 bays. The salesmen just wear black sport-coats instead of polos and the shop floor looks more like fine china than as if there is any actual work being done. On top of that - reliability and overall quality has taken a significant downturn. They are getting closer to BMW, Audi, Merc and Caddy in that regards - and less like Lexus.

All the coin that was blown on all of that could have instead been better invested in an elevated - yet cheaper standalone facility and hiring additional staff to provide the services which are advertised with the brand. THAT is how you fix the dealership & service experience. And of course stepping up the quality and reliability back to what it was not that long ago. It would have also helped to keep the prices lower & more reasonable and maintain a considerable price gap between them and the competition. This is what made Genesis appealing to begin with. Since that gap is so much smaller - the appeal is notably less. The sales reports show this. They are going the wrong direction and they are targeting the wrong customers.

It's the right move by Genesis all round, and even if the move bumps up the price of the Genesis vehicles by 10%, it would've been well worth the additional interests that it would very likely generate within the luxury segment. Never underestimate how much value deep pockets assign to perceived experience.

I disagree in part. Brand loyalists will 95% remain brand loyalists. As you said - most of them don't care about price and they always get a new ride in 3 or 5 years anyhow. In the 6-figure club you are not going to find many who are willing to step down in branding just to get into a cheaper 6-figure car. Genesis' original customer base was mid-tier buyers who were looking to step up their game - but either couldn't go so far as Lex, Merc, BMW and Audi for financial reasons - or were smart enough to avoid them all (except Lex) plus Caddy for reliability reasons. Genesis got a lot more customers who were stepping up than they are ever going to get in stepping down. The "additional interest" pool from below is infinite. From above it is only an ever-decreasing source.

That and somehow I doubt BMW or Mercedes is very respectful of their history or legacy with their "modern" designs.

That is not at all an aspect I am referring to - which is a shitshow in and of itself across the entire automotive industry. I am only focusing on the dealerships themselves.

People were saying the same thing once the G80 and G90 were introduced following the original Hyundai Genesis and Equus with their respective price increases. Old men stuffing their money in a mattress will always yell at clouds.

As an early adopter of the more modern Genesis - I have to disagree. There was only a slight price increase between the 14 and 15 Genesis, as well as the 16 Equus vs. the 17 G90 - while both sported a major step up in vehicle design, features, quality, materials, fit/finish and appeal. In either case you were able to get into a 5 or 7 series class car for a 3 or 5 series price, respectively - when buying a Genesis. And they had killer warranties. My money is in investments - and as much as a car could ever be an investment (nevermind it also being a luxury car) - they were damn good investments. Inarguably the best bang for the buck vehicles you could get in their classes & market segments. The same cannot be said today.

A 2010 Equus Ultimate with an MSRP of $64,500 would now be ~$93,332 with inflation taken into account. [...] I'm pretty confident most people would be fine spending an additional $6K on an already $90K+ vehicle if it meant they got better service.

You know damn well that the inflation argument doesn't exactly work here. Previously - inflation was usually driven by a demand for higher wages which then drove up retail prices in order to pay those wages, and then consequently costs of goods - all while maintaining profit margins. Nowadays we have what can only be termed a broken inflation. Costs of goods and materials are up and retail prices are up - but wages are not at all up. Instead - it is being driven purely by profit margin increases. Only the companies are getting any benefit from it now - the consumers are not at all. Much different from inflation generations in the past - even recent past.

By the way, a barebones base model RWD BMW 740i is $97K. Mercedes S500 starts at $117K. A base E350 4-cylinder begins at $63K.

Yep. Much lower increase percentages than Genesis. The price gap between Genesis and the Germans is much smaller than it was. Sorry - but Genny isn't there yet - no matter how much they try to force their way into it. And it is being fueled by stuff like over priced showrooms full of lounges of empty, expensive furniture. I honestly thought I had walked into a high-end furniture store when I went into the service lounge. It was all so completely out of place and un-utilized. This experience has been the same in all 5, new, standalone Genny dealers I have been to.

 

[Zcd1]

Yep. Much lower increase percentages than Genesis. The price gap between Genesis and the Germans is much smaller than it was. Sorry - but Genny isn't there yet - no matter how much they try to force their way into it. And it is being fueled by stuff like over priced showrooms full of lounges of empty, expensive furniture. I honestly thought I had walked into a high-end furniture store when I went into the service lounge. It was all so completely out of place and un-utilized. This experience has been the same in all 5, new, standalone Genny dealers I have been to.

The original and 2nd gen Genesis products were overweight, underpowered, unrefined cars in comparison with the then-current luxury competition. Genesis' lower prices were needed and justified by the relative qualities of the vehicles.

Current Genesis vehicles don't need to make any excuses compared to the other upmarket brands.

Prices had to rise to bring the rest of the brand experience into parity with other luxury brands.

I personally wouldn't have owned an older Genesis for the reasons previously mentioned.

YMMV.

 

[srobak]

The original and 2nd gen Genesis products were overweight, underpowered, unrefined cars in comparison with the then-current luxury competition. Genesis' lower prices were needed and justified by the relative qualities of the vehicles.

That's ridiculous. I'm talking about the DH (2nd gen Hyundai Genesis & G80) and HI series (G90). Not the 1st gen Hyundai Genesis or the Equus prior to 2015.

2015 DH: 4515 lbs (AWD, 407HP, 373lb/ft)
2023 RG3: 4453 lbs (AWD, 375HP, 391lb/ft)

2017 HI: 4905 lbs, (AWD, 419HP, 383lb/ft)
2023 RS4: 5149lbs, (AWD, 409HP, 405lb/ft)

Marginal differences both in favor of and against both generations of both vehicles.

Prices had to rise to bring the rest of the brand experience into parity with other luxury brands.

LOL. Paying more just for the sake of doing so is part of the "experience" ? You are a marketer's wet dream.

I personally wouldn't have owned an older Genesis for the reasons previously mentioned.

Too bad. You would have missed out on a hell of a car at a hell of a bargain.

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[Backslack]

There was only a slight price increase between the 14 and 15 Genesis, as well as the 16 Equus vs. the 17 G90

"Slight"? A 2017 G90 started at $68,100 for the 3.3T RWD. That's $3k more than the most expensive version of the Equus with the V8 when it came out in 2010, and $10K more than the previous base model. At the end of its run in 2022, the second generation G90 topped out at $82K, which is likewise also $10K more than the most expensive 5.0 Ultimate that came out in its 2017 debut. Sure, it still remained a good value comparable to the Germans back then as it does now, but prices have always crept up along with inflation.

You know damn well that the inflation argument doesn't exactly work here.

You can check the numbers yourself if you don't agree with them, they are irrefutable fact. How we got here is irrelevant to the fact that we are here.

Yep. Much lower increase percentages than Genesis.

Thats objectively false. A 2022 base model 740i started at $87K. That's a $10K jump within a single year from 2022 to the latest generation in 2023. A 2023 G90 meanwhile started at $88K, also a $10K jump from the previous year's equivalent model with AWD. Have fun adding options to the 7 to see just how much more insane the price disparity is. If you want even more crazy, compare the $20K price jump of the base S450 to S500 in 2021.

It's no longer 2015, and nobody on Earth except maybe the Chinese companies are going to price their vehicles like that.

My money is in investments - and as much as a car could ever be an investment (nevermind it also being a luxury car) - they were damn good investments. Inarguably the best bang for the buck vehicles you could get in their classes & market segments. The same cannot be said today.

If you view cars as investments, then depreciating luxobarges are not the right market for you.

 

[srobak]

"Slight"? A 2017 G90 started at $68,100 for the 3.3T RWD. That's $3k more than the most expensive version of the Equus with the V8 when it came out in 2010

A 3k increase over 7 years and including ground-up platform engineering is not bad. Not at all. Plus the only difference for "the most expensive version" of the G90 was going to the 5.0 and adding AWD for 2017. Hell - there are far lesser-class cars that had double that rate of increase over the same period.

At the end of its run in 2022, the second generation G90 topped out at $82K, which is likewise also $10K more than the most expensive 5.0 Ultimate that came out in its 2017 debut. Sure, it still remained a good value comparable to the Germans back then as it does now, but prices have always crept up along with inflation.

2022 ended the first gen. The second gen started in 23 - and was a major refresh. It was also during plandemic which artificially jacked prices & inflation between 20 and 23.

You can check the numbers yourself if you don't agree with them, they are irrefutable fact. How we got here is irrelevant to the fact that we are here.

It's not that I don't agree with them. My point has nothing to do with the fact that we are indeed facing ridiculous inflation - or how. The difference is that wages are not increasing with everything else. So while it may "only" be a $6k increase in price to pay for the new showroom and vacant service lounge - more importantly it feels more like 10-12k. People are not so anxious to part with an extra 6k to start with - and when you take that up to the 5 figures it actually feels like - they are even less so inclined.

Thats objectively false.

Believe what you will. Any way you slice it - the price gap between Genny and their equivalent competitive models from Germany has shrunk significantly between 2019 and now - without any actual just cause for doing so. A pretty showroom and lounge while retaining long lead times for service appointments and lengthy backorders does not justify that - and are things that could have been addressed (and even satisfactorily resolved) without the need for such hikes.

If you view cars as investments, then depreciating luxobarges are not the right market for you.

That's not what I said. Let's try again.... and stay within scope, this time:

From 15-20 the Genny models were better investments than their German equivalents. The same cannot be said today. By the same token - they were also better investments than the current models.

 

[Backslack]

A 3k increase over 7 years and including ground-up platform engineering is not bad.

Read again, the cheapest version of the G90 was $3k more than the most expensive version of the Equus. The base models are $10K apart. And $10K was worth a lot more back then than it is now.

2022 ended the first gen. The second gen started in 23 - and was a major refresh. It was also during plandemic which artificially jacked prices & inflation between 20 and 23.

The G90 is the second gen version of the Equus (not counting the rebadged Mitsubishi), in South Korea it was even sold as the EQ900 (you know what EQ stands for).

So you accept that inflation is very much real and raising the prices of all vehicles, not just Genesis. Yet you somehow think Genesis should be pricing even lower than the modern equivalent $93K Hyundai Equus?

It's not that I don't agree with them. My point has nothing to do with the fact that we are indeed facing ridiculous inflation - or how. The difference is that wages are not increasing with everything else. So while it may "only" be a $6k increase in price to pay for the new showroom and vacant service lounge - more importantly it feels more like 10-12k. People are not so anxious to part with an extra 6k to start with - and when you take that up to the 5 figures it actually feels like - they are even less so inclined.

What do your "feelings" have to do with inflation? Costs of materials and labor goes up, and manufacturers price accordingly. How you "feel" about that literally has no bearing on how much it costs to make the vehicles.

Believe what you will. Any way you slice it - the price gap between Genny and their equivalent competitive models from Germany has shrunk significantly between 2019 and now - without any actual just cause for doing so. A pretty showroom and lounge while retaining long lead times for service appointments and lengthy backorders does not justify that - and are things that could have been addressed (and even satisfactorily resolved) without the need for such hikes.

I believe in numbers, not "feelings." And the numbers show that the Germans have raised their prices as much if not more than Genesis, as is the case with every other car manufacturer. You can buy a Lexus RX now for almost $80K before dealer markups, that's the way things are these days.

That's not what I said. Let's try again.... and stay within scope, this time:

From 15-20 the Genny models were better investments than their German equivalents. The same cannot be said today. By the same token - they were also better investments than the current models.

Investment by definition mean you expect getting something more than what you put in. A depreciating asset like a car by definition cannot be an investment. None of the vehicles mentioned in this thread are good investments, and if you feel happier with a used car then good for you, but that's meaningless to the manufacturer who is in the market for new car buyers.

 

[Zcd1]

Too bad. You would have missed out on a hell of a car at a hell of a bargain.

No, I missed out on an unattractive overall package.

But it's clear you're just here to troll.

Don't like it much when someone calls you out on your B.S., eh? Too bad.

 

[srobak]

Read again, the cheapest version of the G90 was $3k more than the most expensive version of the Equus. The base models are $10K apart. And $10K was worth a lot more back then than it is now.

Right - and we are still talking about a 7 year span. The differences between base and optioned between the two models is completely different.

The G90 is the second gen version of the Equus (not counting the rebadged Mitsubishi), in South Korea it was even sold as the EQ900 (you know what EQ stands for).

I'm well aware of what it stands for - but by no measure is the G90 a 2nd-gen Equus - nor is it considered one by the mothership. It was an outright replacement on a completely new chassis.

So you accept that inflation is very much real and raising the prices of all vehicles, not just Genesis.

That's not at all what I said. It seems you have a habit of mis-construing what is being said in efforts to be circularly argumentative in order to make it suit your needs. I thought this was a tactic only employed by Turnme. I have no interest in furthering that track. Go back and read what I wrote above and take it for what I wrote at face value. If it still doesn't compute - then just keep re-reading it until it does.

What do your "feelings" have to do with inflation? Costs of materials and labor goes up, and manufacturers price accordingly. How you "feel" about that literally has no bearing on how much it costs to make the vehicles.

For the sake of Pete. This has nothing to do with my feelings - it has to do with how it feels to the dollar... or how the impact of it is felt by all. Because all the costs have gone up - and the overall wages have not - the impact of the lopsided, broken inflation is actually higher to the consumer than what it has been in the past - and far more than it should be. Does that explain it clearly enough?

You can buy a Lexus RX now for almost $80K before dealer markups, that's the way things are these days.

A far less percentage increase than G over the same periods of time since 2015 or 2017.

Investment by definition mean you expect getting something more than what you put in. A depreciating asset like a car by definition cannot be an investment. None of the vehicles mentioned in this thread are good investments

You seem to only extrapolate meanings when it suits you - so I will spell this one out for you, too: You used to get more in transportation and features out of it than the money you put into it for the class of vehicle that it is. The same cannot be said today. I am beyond obviously not discussing financial returns here.

No, I missed out on an unattractive overall package.

Nothing could be further from the truth - and the past sales figures glaringly support that. But just to entertain this a bit further - what year did the G80 and G90 become "attractive"?

But it's clear you're just here to troll.

Riiiiiight...

Don't like it much when someone calls you out on your B.S., eh? Too bad.

What the heck are you talking about? You claimed massive improvements in weight and power for the 80 and 90 between current gen and the previous gen and I called out that BS with the figures showing that there were only marginal gains and losses on both sides of that fence. Additionally the sales figures shows which generations were the preferred ones among purchasers. Sorry if you don't like the facts, Jack. Not my problem. Carry on.

 

[Trixie86]

Right - and we are still talking about a 7 year span. The differences between base and optioned between the two models is completely different.



I'm well aware of what it stands for - but by no measure is the G90 a 2nd-gen Equus - nor is it considered one by the mothership. It was an outright replacement on a completely new chassis.



That's not at all what I said. It seems you have a habit of mis-construing what is being said in efforts to be circularly argumentative in order to make it suit your needs. I thought this was a tactic only employed by Turneme. I have no interest in furthering that track. Go back and read what I wrote above and take it for what I wrote at face value. If it still doesn't computer - then just keep re-reading it until it does.



For the sake of Pete. This has nothing to do with my feelings - it has to do with how it feels to the dollar... or how the impact of it is felt by all. Because all the costs have gone up - and the overall wages have not - the impact of the lopsided, broken inflation is actually higher to the consumer than what it has been in the past - and far more than it should be. Does that explain it clearly enough?



A far less percentage increase than G over the same periods of time since 2015 or 2017.



You seem to only extrapolate meanings when it suits you - so I will spell this one out for you, too: You used to get more in transportation and features out of it than the money you put into it for the class of vehicle that it is. The same cannot be said today. I am beyond obviously not discussing financial returns here.



Nothing could be further from the truth - and the past sales figures glaringly support that. But just to entertain this a bit further - what year did the G80 and G90 become "attractive"?



View attachment 59098
Riiiiiight...



What the heck are you talking about? You claimed massive improvements in weight and power for the 80 and 90 between current gen and the previous gen and I called out that BS with the figures showing that there were only marginal gains and losses on both sides of that fence. Additionally the sales figures shows which generations were the preferred ones among purchasers. Sorry if you don't like the facts, Jack. Not my problem. Carry on.

With all due respect, all your posts come across as whining. If you don't like the direction of brand, don't buy another one.

 

[srobak]

With all due respect, all your posts come across as whining. If you don't like the direction of brand, don't buy another one.

You haven't read all my posts. There's nearly a decade of them for you to go through before you try to make that claim. My posts in _this_ thread were calling out the ridiculousness of the new standalone dealerships, underscored by the brand still having the same problems they have had for the last few years. It didn't use to be that way - even when they were originally running out of the Hyundai dealerships. No, I don't like the direction the brand is going or has gone recently - and no, I won't be buying another new one unless they fix the issues - and there are more now than there were 4 or 5 years ago. It's not whining - it's observing and calling a spade a spade, and I am far from the first or only one on this forum to have done so.

 

[Trixie86]

You haven't read all my posts. There's nearly a decade of them for you to go through before you try to make that claim. My posts in _this_ thread were calling out the ridiculousness of the new standalone dealerships, underscored by the brand still having the same problems they have had for the last few years. It didn't use to be that way - even when they were originally running out of the Hyundai dealerships. No, I don't like the direction the brand is going or has gone recently - and no, I won't be buying another new one unless they fix the issues - and there are more now than there were 4 or 5 years ago. It's not whining - it's observing and calling a spade a spade, and I am far from the first or only one on this forum to have done so.

Repetitious and boring.

 

[Zcd1]

What the heck are you talking about? You claimed massive improvements in weight and power for the 80 and 90 between current gen and the previous gen and I called out that BS with the figures showing that there were only marginal gains and losses on both sides of that fence. Additionally the sales figures shows which generations were the preferred ones among purchasers. Sorry if you don't like the facts, Jack. Not my problem. Carry on.

That's not what I said at all - I was referring to Genesis' offerings in comparison with the other upmarket brands, and in that light, the cars were indeed overweight and underpowered.

Look, we get it - you want a cheaper car.

Some of us prefer BETTER cars, and are willing to pay for it, along with a more premium overall experience. That's what Genesis is aiming for.

The upmarket direction may not suit you, but b*tching about it in a forum isn't gonna help, and the overall sales growth and reception from the auto enthusiast and other publications suggests that Genesis is on the right path.

 

[EdP]

Some of us prefer BETTER cars, and are willing to pay for it, along with a more premium overall experience. That's what Genesis is aiming for.

The upmarket direction may not suit you, but b*tching about it in a forum isn't gonna help, and the overall sales growth and reception from the auto enthusiast and other publications suggests that Genesis is on the right path.

Exactly. The now higher priced Genesis may be better, I just could not justify it for my use. Bought a Sonata Limited instead.