Prospective Buyer--noobie quick questions

[SeismicGuy]

The seating was the first thing I noticed about the TL since a few minutes earlier we had gotten out or our 2000 TL. I was never thrilled with the seats in our 2000 but the 2012 was a vast improvement. The seat bottom was a bit longer which give better thigh support. The seating in the Genesis was also quite comfortable.

It was odd that the 2012 TL felt so much peppier than our 2000 (even though I was never disappointed in the performance of the 2000) and the TL definitely felt more nimble and aggressive than the Genesis 3.8. Of course these are very different cars.

Feature for feature both cars seem comparable. I thought the TL would be higher than it was and that the Genesis would be lower. However it looks like the actual pricing is pretty close.

Doug

 

[LandYacht]

Doug,

We just replaced my wife's 2002 MB C230 Kompressor with a Genesis 3.8 Tech. She considered the A4 and TL as well. For us, the Genesis was the best combination of value, comfort, features and performance. Not as sporty ride and handling as the other two, but much more comfortable for a long trip, we thought. And the Genesis interior and controls felt much better executed than the TL. A4 is nice but felt a bit spartan (and snug) compared to the Genesis.

We also got a great deal on the car with a zero hassle dealer. That beat the others hands down. Since she tends to keep a car for many years, reliability is more important than resale value. I think both will be good for the Genesis.

Brian

 

[SeismicGuy]

Hey Brian,

One of the disappointing things about the new TL was the absence of wood trim (or faux wood). The interior of the 2000 was one of the things that really sold me compared to other cars we had been considering at the time of that purchase (Lexus ES, Maxima, Infiniti I30). The tailoring of the leather (or faux leather) on the doors along with just the right amount of wood accents was well done. I had participated in a few Acura focus groups a few years after we had bought the TL and I guess the consensus was to scale down the luxury and ratchet up the sport. So while performance and handling have benefited the look of the interior (in my opinion) has suffered.

Most of the use of my wife's car is back and forth to work (maybe 7 miles round trip) and weekend errands and leisure/entertainment (local activities or weekend getaways). Hence this is why our cars have maybe 80,000 miles on them after 10 years when we finally decide to get a new one.


Doug

 

[Slider]

Doug,
I too really liked the Acura TL. I wans't crazy about the styling until the latest model but the price point for it fully loaded eclipsed that of the Genesis.

But the TL and the VW CC and Infiniti G37 joined the Genny in my "Final Four" when I was car-hunting.

 

[upsbroke]

Re: new owner--noobie quick questions

Just a quick thought about my '12 w/premium. What's with the folding power mirriors? You'd think that they would fold in everytime the engine was shut off not just when you remember to flick the switch.
I could see that when you activate the switch-the mirrors fold in when the engine is turned off and if you deactivate the switch-the mirrors remain stationary.

 

[LandYacht]

Doug,

My wife uses her car in the same way. We traded her 9.5 year old MB in with 54k miles. We may use the Genesis more since it is roomier.

Good luck!

Brian

 

[BacktoHyundaibychoice]

Re: new owner--noobie quick questions

Just a quick thought about my '12 w/premium. What's with the folding power mirriors? You'd think that they would fold in everytime the engine was shut off not just when you remember to flick the switch.
I could see that when you activate the switch-the mirrors fold in when the engine is turned off and if you deactivate the switch-the mirrors remain stationary.

I prefer the mirrors this way because I fold them in while pulling into the driveway due to a narrow garage. If I had to wait until engine shutoff it'd be too late. I also don't want an 'auto-fold' in the dead of winter due to potential damage of ice/sub zero temps at 'auto-unfold'.

 

[NYSpur]

Re: new owner--noobie quick questions

Just a quick thought about my '12 w/premium. What's with the folding power mirriors? You'd think that they would fold in everytime the engine was shut off not just when you remember to flick the switch.
I could see that when you activate the switch-the mirrors fold in when the engine is turned off and if you deactivate the switch-the mirrors remain stationary.

At least with how my 2012 is, two presses on the lock on the key fob also folds the mirrors.

 

[upsbroke]

Re: new owner--noobie quick questions

I prefer the mirrors this way because I fold them in while pulling into the driveway due to a narrow garage. If I had to wait until engine shutoff it'd be too late. I also don't want an 'auto-fold' in the dead of winter due to potential damage of ice/sub zero temps at 'auto-unfold'.

Good point!

 

[upsbroke]

Re: new owner--noobie quick questions

At least with how my 2012 is, two presses on the lock on the key fob also folds the mirrors.

What would I do without you guys!

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[laiyenha]

It's getting closer to my actually shopping around for cars, especially since I have an anxious buyer waiting to take possession of my wife's 2000 Acura TL.

So I finally got down to actually looking at a few vehicles. Since our TL has been a great experience I felt compelled to include this in our short-list even though their recent styling was an initial turnoff. So on our outing today, we looked at 3 very different cars--Acura TL, Genesis 3.8, and Honda Crosstour (all 2012 models). The styling of the 2012 TL has been taken down a notch from the previous year which is a good thing. All three cars were very impressive in their own ways but the most pleasantly surprising was. . . the Acura!

What was most satisfying about the TL was the way it drove. Totally different much sportier feel and responsiveness compared with our 2000 TL. I was just test driving the base model and I have to say the only disappointment was the less luxurious interior compared with our 2000. I would probably opt for the Tech package if I go for the TL.

The second car we drove was the Genesis. This drove much more like our 2000 TL which I always felt had a somewhat ponderous feel. Nevertheless the Genesis was impressive and seemed a bit more upscale inside compared with the TL. What did surprise me though was that the sticker on the Genesis was not dramatically less than the TL although I keep hearing that these can be had for much less.

The last car was the Crosstour. We drove the top model (EXL) and this was also quite a nice drive. The interior was definitely not up to the TL or Genesis but it was still nicer than I expected. The styling of the car really grabs your attention but I realize it may turn some people off. I liked the feature of the Honda engine that toggles the 6 cylinder down to 4 cylinders to save gas when you do not need all the power.

All in all an interesting day of test driving.


Doug

Just want to get back to the original topic.

Doug,
I was in your shoes a month or so back. We had to replace my wife Lexus GS400. The 2 final contenders are Infinity G37 and '11 Genesis 4.6; they are surprising similar in price. I had always like smaller sporty vehicle thus the G37 is my choice. However, I noticed that my wife just want something similar to her old ride with improvements - therefore the Genesis won out (I did not mind and actually came to like the Genesis a lot). I think your wife may finally choose the new TL over the Genesis as it is a similar but improved version of her last car. They are both fine vehicles and you can't go wrong either way.

 

[SeismicGuy]

Just want to get back to the original topic.

Doug,
I was in your shoes a month or so back. We had to replace my wife Lexus GS400. The 2 final contenders are Infinity G37 and '11 Genesis 4.6; they are surprising similar in price. I had always like smaller sporty vehicle thus the G37 is my choice. However, I noticed that my wife just want something similar to her old ride with improvements - therefore the Genesis won out (I did not mind and actually came to like the Genesis a lot). I think your wife may finally choose the new TL over the Genesis as it is a similar but improved version of her last car. They are both fine vehicles and you can't go wrong either way.

Part of my decision making is the feeling that I should be loyal to a brand that has worked out well for us for the last 12 years unless there was some compelling reason not to do so. I had started out with this philosophy back in 2000 when we were replacing here 1990 Maxima. We were fully convinced we were going to buy another Maxima but the second gen TL had recently come out and I kept hearing good things about it. The styling was nice and features and performance were as good or better than the Lexus ES that Acura was targeting at significantly lower sticker (MSRP for the TL was about $28K at the time). It turned out that a loaded Maxima would have been the same or more than the TL, and the TL seemed a bit more upscale. Hence the compelling reason for me to switch.

This time around the Genesis seems like the hot ticket but after finally looking at both the Genesis and TL within a few hours of each other, the TL surprised me more than I had expected (in a good way) and the Genesis was a bit underwhelming compared to what I was expecting. Also, price differential between the two is not as dramatic as I was led to believe.

I am sure we would not go wrong with either car but so far I just cannot come up with that compelling reason to change horses.


Doug

 

[LandYacht]

Oh, I almost forgot the other reason my wife went with the Genesis instead of the TL... Her 1996 Acura CL v6 engine self destructed at 1,000 (yes, 1k) miles, leaving her stranded on the highway. Took the dealer a month to do a sloppy rebuild of the top of the brand new engine. It took us 15 years to even consider an Acura again, but we both liked every aspect of the Genesis better.

But... to each his (or her) own! That's why there are lots of brands out there.

 

[nextcar]

Part of my decision making is the feeling that I should be loyal to a brand that has worked out well for us for the last 12 years unless there was some compelling reason not to do so. I had started out with this philosophy back in 2000 when we were replacing here 1990 Maxima. We were fully convinced we were going to buy another Maxima but the second gen TL had recently come out and I kept hearing good things about it. The styling was nice and features and performance were as good or better than the Lexus ES that Acura was targeting at significantly lower sticker (MSRP for the TL was about $28K at the time). It turned out that a loaded Maxima would have been the same or more than the TL, and the TL seemed a bit more upscale. Hence the compelling reason for me to switch.

This time around the Genesis seems like the hot ticket but after finally looking at both the Genesis and TL within a few hours of each other, the TL surprised me more than I had expected (in a good way) and the Genesis was a bit underwhelming compared to what I was expecting. Also, price differential between the two is not as dramatic as I was led to believe.

I am sure we would not go wrong with either car but so far I just cannot come up with that compelling reason to change horses.


Doug

did test drive the genesis 3.8 or 4.6? the 4.6 is not only more powerful, but also feels more refined and luxurious. definitely beats the TL in my opinion.

 

[SeismicGuy]

did test drive the genesis 3.8 or 4.6? the 4.6 is not only more powerful, but also feels more refined and luxurious. definitely beats the TL in my opinion.

But that then throws the price noticeably above a TL and is really comparing apples to oranges. The 3.8 I drove was plenty refined and luxurious enough (more so than the TL) so that is not the problem. I just went into the day expecting the TL to be ho-hum and expensive and the Genesis to be as hot as hyped and a real bargain. Turned out not be be the case.

Doug

 

[newman]

But that then throws the price noticeably above a TL and is really comparing apples to oranges. The 3.8 I drove was plenty refined and luxurious enough (more so than the TL) so that is not the problem. I just went into the day expecting the TL to be ho-hum and expensive and the Genesis to be as hot as hyped and a real bargain. Turned out not be be the case.

Doug

I think that it depends on the TL. Isn't the SH-AWD version around 45K with common options?

Cheers,
Newman

 

[SeismicGuy]

Yes--the SH-AWD is higher in price (and perhaps what I would be looking at if the car were for me). But my wife is not so much into the sports/highperf thing, especially since the use of the car is basically back-and-forth to work during the week and errands/recreation on the weekends. Yearly mileage is about 7000 miles and the type of driving we do does not demand sports handling or all wheel drive.

So what I am comparing is the basic TL with Tech Package versus the Genesis 3.8 with Premium package. Sticker pricing for that comparison is really close. What I had been expecting based on the hype was a scenario more like back in 2000 when I was comparing the TL with Lexus ES. At that time there was at least a $5K difference between the TL and a Lexus with comparable features. That was because Acura wanted to make a dent in that market segment so the basically underpriced the TL. So if the Genesis were several thousand less than the TL (which is what I had incorrectly assumed) I would probably be more inclined to make the switch.

Again, both cars are fine automobiles and good value for the features.


Doug

 

[newman]

Yes--the SH-AWD is higher in price (and perhaps what I would be looking at if the car were for me). But my wife is not so much into the sports/highperf thing, especially since the use of the car is basically back-and-forth to work during the week and errands/recreation on the weekends. Yearly mileage is about 7000 miles and the type of driving we do does not demand sports handling or all wheel drive.

So what I am comparing is the basic TL with Tech Package versus the Genesis 3.8 with Premium package. Sticker pricing for that comparison is really close. What I had been expecting based on the hype was a scenario more like back in 2000 when I was comparing the TL with Lexus ES. At that time there was at least a $5K difference between the TL and a Lexus with comparable features. That was because Acura wanted to make a dent in that market segment so the basically underpriced the TL. So if the Genesis were several thousand less than the TL (which is what I had incorrectly assumed) I would probably be more inclined to make the switch.

Again, both cars are fine automobiles and good value for the features.


Doug

Makes sense to me. I think that what you are seeing is the Genesis value beginning to be reflected in its pricing. It seems to be starting on the base models and will most likely work its way up to the luxury/performance models. The first-mover advantage on Hyundai's is starting to wane. Going forward my guess is that we will start to see Hyundai's continuing to raise in price while competitor pricing stays relatively flat to down (perhaps more with rebates than sticker price). This is standard behaviour in a free market economy with new players disrupting existing markets.

Cheers,
Newman

 

[SeismicGuy]

Makes sense to me. I think that what you are seeing is the Genesis value beginning to be reflected in its pricing. It seems to be starting on the base models and will most likely work its way up to the luxury/performance models. The first-mover advantage on Hyundai's is starting to wane. Going forward my guess is that we will start to see Hyundai's continuing to raise in price while competitor pricing stays relatively flat to down (perhaps more with rebates than sticker price). This is standard behaviour in a free market economy with new players disrupting existing markets.

Cheers,
Newman

Exactly. In this type of situation it is the early buyers that reap the benefits. Those that bought the first Lexus LS (back in 1990?) were really getting a steal by spending $35K for something comparable to a $40-$50K BMW or Mercedes. In fact, this really created a seismic shift in the market and, for a while, the German brands really did not know what to do. I had a BMW at the time and one of the many times it was in for servicing I saw some not-for-public-viewing memo on someone's desk that included advice for how to address the Lexus threat.

Over the years Lexus has crept up in pricing while the Germans have become more competitive so pricing is probably not that significant for someone considering Lexus versus German. However, Lexus has certainly established itself as a true luxury (or at least entry-level luxury) marque so they can now demand the higher pricing.


Doug

 

[nextcar]

But that then throws the price noticeably above a TL and is really comparing apples to oranges. The 3.8 I drove was plenty refined and luxurious enough (more so than the TL) so that is not the problem. I just went into the day expecting the TL to be ho-hum and expensive and the Genesis to be as hot as hyped and a real bargain. Turned out not be be the case.

Doug

i have a 2010 honda accord coupe v6, and i really like the balance of comfort and sport in it except for 1 glaring fault: road noise is pretty bad especially on rough pavement. I know the TL is quieter, but it's still not at the same level as the genesis.