Rigid Collars installed on my G2!

[Aquineas]

Gennie, I bought a set of collars from you and I love them. That being said, please consider becoming an official vendor on this site. That way you are instantly identifiable as a vendor and it helps Sal with the cost of running this place

 

[LarryJM]

Hey Larry,

On those subframes that cannot fit the collars, the tolerance is so tight, then the bolts are already snug and require no additional collars. The other ones have larger holes, which is why they would require some. Hope this information helps!

Thanks, now that confirms as I speculated as why some need 6 and some might need 8 in my previous post and makes sense. This is somewhat surprising since I know this is a very popular mod in the Sonata community and this hole size variance is not an issue there.

Larry

 

[Gennie33]

Gennie, I bought a set of collars from you and I love them. That being said, please consider becoming an official vendor on this site. That way you are instantly identifiable as a vendor and it helps Sal with the cost of running this place

I am definitely considering it. But we need to have more then one product for you guys and sales volumes to warrant the fees

I mostly signed up at the moment to clear up some questions lol not a big fan on forums.

However seeing that you guys have limited support is enticing.

 

[lobsenza]

I have had the rigid collars installed on my Genesis. My mechanic said that the installation took him about 2 hours including an oil change. He felt that the rear had much more play than the front did. He put in 4 in the front and 4 in the rear. He said he had to loosen all the bolts and tighten them all gradually to get the collars to fit. He said the fit was tight. He felt that the rear collars would make more of a difference than the front collars.

He also felt that a rear stabilizer bar would help a lot.

I drove the car for 5-6 miles after the installation. The on center feel of the steering is definitely much better. I only drove on smooth roads, so I am am not sure the effect on the ride.

My mechanic did recommend doing an alignment. The car is going tomorrow to Firestone to have an alignment check done. I will let you know what effect the collars have on the alignment (the car was aligned about 1400 miles ago, so I doubt it has changed much during that time). Firestone gives me a before and after printout, so comparing the before printout to the previous after printout should be interesting.

 

[namorbrowneyes]

I have had the rigid collars installed on my Genesis. My mechanic said that the installation took him about 2 hours including an oil change. He felt that the rear had much more play than the front did. He put in 4 in the front and 4 in the rear. He said he had to loosen all the bolts and tighten them all gradually to get the collars to fit. He said the fit was tight. He felt that the rear collars would make more of a difference than the front collars.

He also felt that a rear stabilizer bar would help a lot.

I drove the car for 5-6 miles after the installation. The on center feel of the steering is definitely much better. I only drove on smooth roads, so I am am not sure the effect on the ride.

My mechanic did recommend doing an alignment. The car is going tomorrow to Firestone to have an alignment check done. I will let you know what effect the collars have on the alignment (the car was aligned about 1400 miles ago, so I doubt it has changed much during that time). Firestone gives me a before and after printout, so comparing the before printout to the previous after printout should be interesting.

Super interested in your experience! I just ordered some collars for mine. Let us know the results!

 

[Aquineas]

Awesome! Lobsenza, where did you get them installed? How do you like them?

 

[celltech]

Interesting report Lob....my non Ultimate already has a rear sway bar. I kinda thought the front would be more important cause the rear mounts are isolated with rubber, so there is built in play in effect. But I totally agree with you on the on center steering feel...it was the first thing I noticed as well. I have also wondered what an alignment would do and am eager to hear your results.

 

[amartz]

My mechanic did recommend doing an alignment. The car is going tomorrow to Firestone to have an alignment check done. I will let you know what effect the collars have on the alignment (the car was aligned about 1400 miles ago, so I doubt it has changed much during that time).

Just the process of loosening the sub-frame bolts and re-tightening them can change the alignment dramatically! You mechanic is absolutely correct, and there's really not much use to comparing the before and after alignment settings. When you loosen up the bolts, it's going to change the geometry, and you are not likely to get it back the same as you tighten the bolts back up.

 

[lobsenza]

The right front camber was slightly out of spec ever since I bought the car, but it is not adjustable. The collars brought it back into spec. Every alignment measurement was in spec (including the RF camber) once the collars were installed. They tweaked the toe slightly so it was in the center of the spec.

The on center steering feel is much better with the collars. The ride has improved a little. It takes the bumps better, although I have not driven on very rough roads yet. The feel of the car is closer to sport mode without the sport mode being engaged.

My mechanic is Jason Rearick from Just Wrenchin' Automotive. It is a 1 man shop. I have used him since 1995. His phone number is 512-423-9923. All his customers are word of mouth. He does all non warranty work on all of my vehicles (except alignments and tire balancing/rotation). He is a certified master mechanic and used to work at several dealerships until he got fed up with the BS. He is not always in the shop, so if you want to use him call or text him first.

 

[LarryJM]

O.K. so I finally got a chance to crawl under and take a lookee see at the subframe on my U.S. made 2015 3.8 2WD Ultimate vehicle and found what I think are some interesting things. Not sure what they mean to everything that has been discussed here, but at least in my mind it raises some things that I think need clarifying. The follow information is from the factory shop manual for the 3.8 sedan and it appears that it is the same for the 5.0. It also appears based on the service manuals for he 3.8 and 5.0 that the rear sub frames are the same for both platforms with no differences in 2WD or 4WD and the torque values aree the same as for the front 4WD sub frame (115.7 to 130.2 lbs-ft).
One significant difference in the front sub frames is that it appears that the torque values for the sub frame bolts are not the same for the 2WD as they ae for the 4WD. While the 4WD is spec'd at 115.7 to 130.2 lbs-ft the 2WD is only spec'd at 101.3 to 115.7 lbs-ft.

The follow are pics from the 3.8 2015 service manual for both the 2WD and 4WD front subframes that do indeed show different sub frames for these two drive configurations. IMO these are not minor with for the 4WD version there appear to be 4 bolts securing the sub frame directly to the body and between 6 and 8 for the 2WD version.
2WD Front Subframe:

2WD front sub frame extension:

bolts 1 thru 7 are marked with a 12 and attach directly to the body. Not sure what #8 signifies since I forgot to check that when I had the under cover off. Bolts 1 & 5 and 2 & 6 secure some sort of extension on with two bolts on the actual extension with a "10" on them. I removed bolts 2 and 6 one at a time from my vehicle and it appears there might be some sort of bushing/collar already in the subframe, but it does not extend the entire thickness of the subrame proper. A collar might be able to be inserted there, but on my vehicle the box type extension secured by bolts 5 & 6 to the body along with the two additional bolts on each extension securing I assume this extension directly to the subframe has a flat plate portion with a hole in it for bolts 1 & 2 to go thru and on my vehicle the hole in that plate was not directly over the hole in the subframe and while the bolt would go thru the ATQ collar would not. I couldn't find any specs for those two "10" bolts so I was not willing at the time to loosen all the bolts and see if I couldn't get things to line up better and get the collar on or if it did fit would it interfer with the bushing/collar already there. Also, this brings up the question of where a collar at bolt positions 1 & 2 should go under the flat portion of the subframe extension or over it and if under how does that change the geometry of how all the rest of the bolts to either the subframe or to the unibody proper align.

Of course the real question here is what is this reason for this extension. It could be to add support or the enlargen the "sub frame footprint" on the chassis for additional "stiffness/support". Again the question then becomes are collars needed for both these bolts on the front part of the front subframe for the 2WD vehicles or are collars/bushings only needed at bolt positions 1 & 2 since those are the locations where a hole is directly thru the sub frame itself which is then bolted directly to the unibody.



4WD front sub frame:

Finally, I will leave it to the reader, but the figure put out in this thread and evidently used by ATQ of 130 lbs-ft for these sub frame bolts might be correct for the 4W versions and even for the rear sub frame on the 2WD versions. However it appears that for the 2wd version with that "sub frame extension" discussed above the proper torque is 101.3 to 115.7 lbs-ft. Probably not a real deal killer, but specs are specs.

Larry

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[Lord Humunculous]

My mechanic is Jason Rearick from Just Wrenchin' Automotive. It is a 1 man shop. I have used him since 1995. His phone number is 512-423-9923.

does he work out of his house or does he have a shop? the only location i can find for him appears to be his actual house

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oops nvrmnd, off sam bass, ima call him tomorrow, just ordered my collars, didn't realize they were coming from canada eh . . . and unrelated but speaking of canada, can you imagine a stanley between ottowa and edmonton? holy crap that would be something, I wanted to to see toronto to make it, but oh well, screw the rangers and screw the caps.

i wonder if your guy works on volvos too, I have a BUNCH of really expensive shit to do to my s60...

 

[Grokster]

Please do since I have the same Genesis as you and am following all this confusing issue with a great amount of interest since I really want to do this mod, but am quite disappointed in the process at this point.

Larry

Re: Rigid Collar install on my 2015 3.8 Genesis ultimate sedan in NC

Had my mechanic do the rigid collar install. He ended up putting the rear 4 Collars on but the front bolt assembly already had frame insert collars that precluded installation of the aluminum Collars. Installation time was less than 1 hour.

Have driven the car about 100 miles since the install and am fairly sure I feel a tighter feel although not significantly noticeable except when crossing railroad crossings. Have not as yet done a realignment since my mechanic felt that the already tight front end probably limited any potential frame shift. Will probably wait until my next service to get an alignment.

 

[celltech]

Had my mechanic do the rigid collar install. He ended up putting the rear 4 Collars on but the front bolt assembly already had frame insert collars that precluded installation of the aluminum Collars. Installation time was less than 1 hour.

So he didn't even put 2 in the front subframe???? All the holes had a built in collar?

 

[LarryJM]

So he didn't even put 2 in the front subframe???? All the holes had a built in collar?

I don't know, but I suspect when he saw the insert in the front bolts on the front subframe he didn't even look at the back two bolts which on every vehicle so far V6, V8, RWD or AWD all required collars on those back two front sub frame locations. Also, those back two have nuts not bolts and I had to use a bottle jack on the stabilizer bar to lift the sub frame enough to get the collar on and the nut started.

I have mine on for almost a week and can say that while they might have helped there is no way they made as much difference as they did on my 2013 Sonata Ltd. On that vehicle is made the vehicle a whole different animal both in the corners and in normal highway road feel. I suspect the two inserts added on the front two front sub frame positions might have firmed up things considerably already from the factory.

Larry

 

[sparrk]

I have 2016 v6 ultimate RWD with collars on for almost a week now. The mechanic said, they were able to put all eight of them, 4 in the front and 4 in the back. He did not suggest to have it aligned either. It took them like an hour to do the work.

I kind of feel little bit firm ride, but not too much difference. I had small vibration on the steering wheel at all speed and it is very noticeable in the morning. I will do a wheel balance during the next service. May be an alignment down the road as well.

 

[namorbrowneyes]

I have 2016 v6 ultimate RWD with collars on for almost a week now. The mechanic said, they were able to put all eight of them, 4 in the front and 4 in the back. He did not suggest to have it aligned either. It took them like an hour to do the work.

I kind of feel little bit firm ride, but not too much difference. I had small vibration on the steering wheel at all speed and it is very noticeable in the morning. I will do a wheel balance during the next service. May be an alignment down the road as well.

Yes, please let us know what you think when you try the recommended alignment.... , thanks!

 

[celltech]

I don't know, but I suspect when he saw the insert in the front bolts on the front subframe he didn't even look at the back two bolts which on every vehicle so far V6, V8, RWD or AWD all required collars on those back two front sub frame locations. Also, those back two have nuts not bolts and I had to use a bottle jack on the stabilizer bar to lift the sub frame enough to get the collar on and the nut started.

Larry

I wonder if are all pulling the same hardware out or not. I had 2 nuts with studs in the back, but all 4 in the front were bolts. All of this really wants to make me go jack up the front end up again and really study and photograph everything. If only it was not such a PITA to do...

 

[Lord Humunculous]

well the local guy lobs suggested doesn't answer his phone or return mssgs, no shade on lobsenza, I guess the dude just has too much business. so ima go put them on myself at the diy austin place, I'll be sure to take and posts lots of pics and or vids. I need to do the oil too so as long as Ima be under there . . shooting for tomorrow, er, today, dunno what time it is

 

[Aquineas]

I had mine done at SoulSpeed Performance, but since I've had mine done, Colin, the owner, lost one of his techs, and since seems to be pretty busy prepping cars for track-work, it might be a while before you can get in.

 

[Lord Humunculous]

meh, no worries, I'm actually looking forward to doing it myself, sure I have to do oil, but both the underbody covers have to come off, great time to photo eeerrrrrvrything, just in case, but also just to better get to know my own vehicle.

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so, yeah, this is prolly a good thing