Some Comments on new Genesis G90

[jim5359]

Just an FYI but a rear wheel drive Lexus LS tops out at around $110,000 and the all wheel drive version a little more. The hybrid tops out at almost $140k. A fully loaded Lexus LS for $88,000 would be pretty awesome...

I just configured a rear wheel drive regular wheelbase model and maxed it out at $89,169 with every option and accessory I could pick. The long wheelbase and sport models go above that but aren't really a good comparison for a G90, nor is the hybrid. My point remains, if I had a choice between a G90 and a fully loaded rear wheel drive regular wheelbase Lexus LS, I'd likely go for the Lexus. The G90 will need to be priced well under that and/or provide more features in order to justify a similar price.

http://www.lexus.com/build-your-lexus/#!/series/LS/

 

[Seattle Genesis]

From a die hard Genesis fan I may have to consider another brand of luxury car due to the available options on the new Genesis G90. I have been very outspoken about what the North American market gets compared to the rest of the world. Older Genesis and current G80's and G90's appear not to have the latest and greatest options here in the US which I have a hard time believing cost is the only factor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLZBDhFn6tA

Anyway.. I will still wait and see what is offered for us here in the US. If anyone has other info to share I would like to hear about it.
Seattle Genesis..

 

[8spd]

There really is only one way for the Genesis G90 to succeed, and that is to load the car up while offering it at a low price.

At the moment they don't have dedicated showroom for the brand, despite the launching of the "Genesis" brand, these cars will still be sold at Hyundai dealerships and so will the service be done there as well.

It's like a 4 star hotel trying to attract customers from the 5 star hotels. You price your upgraded suites at a price that's even below the standard rooms from 5 star hotels.

A loaded G90 V6 Turbo, should be priced a good notch below the base price of the Lexus LS. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Mark_888]

There really is only one way for the Genesis G90 to succeed, and that is to load the car up while offering it at a low price.

At the moment they don't have dedicated showroom for the brand, despite the launching of the "Genesis" brand, these cars will still be sold at Hyundai dealerships and so will the service be done there as well.

It's like a 4 star hotel trying to attract customers from the 5 star hotels. You price your upgraded suites at a price that's even below the standard rooms from 5 star hotels.

A loaded G90 V6 Turbo, should be priced a good notch below the base price of the Lexus LS. Just my humble opinion.

You are probably right, but since Hyundai sells about 4 million vehicles a year worldwide, even if they don't sell a lot of G90's in the USA they probably haven't lost much. If they had to make big investments in creating a separate dealer network, they "could" lose a lot of money.

As I have said all along, the Equus/G90 is not about making money selling those cars, but building the reputation of the Hyundai brand.

Mercedes made a lot of money selling POS C-class cars over the years, simply on the reputation of the S class. That's just the way marketing works sometimes.

 

[turnne]

You are probably right, but since Hyundai sells about 4 million vehicles a year worldwide, even if they don't sell a lot of G90's in the USA they probably haven't lost much. If they had to make big investments in creating a separate dealer network, they "could" lose a lot of money.

As I have said all along, the Equus/G90 is not about making money selling those cars, but building the reputation of the Hyundai brand.

Mercedes made a lot of money selling POS C-class cars over the years, simply on the reputation of the S class. That's just the way marketing works sometimes.

I dont think any "for " profit company in this day and age continues to market something that they consistently lose money on

and what do you mean the Mercedes C class is a POS?

seriously?

I assume you owned one and can speak from a personal level?

because the professional reviews do not agree with what you say
In the United States, Mercedes sells more C class, E class and M class vehicles than they do the S class


does this mean all of them sell in large numbers due to the reputation of the S class?..lol

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

I dont think any "for " profit company in this day and age continues to market something that they consistently lose money on

and what do you mean the Mercedes C class is a POS?

seriously?

I assume you owned one and can speak from a personal level?

because the professional reviews do not agree with what you say
In the United States, Mercedes sells more C class, E class and M class vehicles than they do the S class


does this mean all of them sell in large numbers due to the reputation of the S class?..lol

Warren

Of course they buy the C class in higher quantities than S class. That's all they can afford, and pretend to live the illusion of luxury and success of their pathetic little lives.

That's exactly what I said.

That is the same reason why Hyundai imports the Equus. So that people driving those Elantras and Sonatas will fell good about themselves because, after all, Hyundai does make a high quality luxury automobile even though they can't afford one themselves. Of course, that little trick doesn't work quite as well for Hyundai right now as it does for MB, but maybe someday it will.

Importing the Equus is called "building the brand" (straight from the HMA CEO's mouth).

I will admit that the new C class is only partly POS. The previous models were genuine POS, and even though I never owned one, I drove in one frequently.

 

[turnne]

Of course they buy the C class in higher quantities than S class. That's all they can afford, and pretend to live the illusion of luxury and success of their pathetic little lives.

That's exactly what I said.

That is the same reason why Hyundai imports the Equus. So that people driving those Elantras and Sonatas will fell good about themselves because, after all, Hyundai does make a high quality luxury automobile even though they can't afford one themselves. Of course, that little trick doesn't work quite as well for Hyundai right now as it does for MB, but maybe someday it will.

Importing the Equus is called "building the brand" (straight from the HMA CEO's mouth).

I will admit that the new C class is only partly POS. The previous models were genuine POS, and even though I never owned one, I drove in one frequently.

How do you now that is all they can afford?..please post some verifiable data points on that

You have no idea what those people value...do you?
There are far more people that can afford an S class that dont buy one...you do realize that right?

I am certain Hyundai wants to build the brand and they think there is a market segment where they can
Its also a given that they want to make a profit..right?

Professional reviews would disagree with your opinion of the C class...as would sales numbers and retained resale value from a market standpoint

What do you think the market thinks of the Genesis based on the heavy discounting and poor resale?

You always have some "interesting" ideas....

Warren

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I just configured a rear wheel drive regular wheelbase model and maxed it out at $89,169 with every option and accessory I could pick. The long wheelbase and sport models go above that but aren't really a good comparison for a G90, nor is the hybrid. My point remains, if I had a choice between a G90 and a fully loaded rear wheel drive regular wheelbase Lexus LS, I'd likely go for the Lexus. The G90 will need to be priced well under that and/or provide more features in order to justify a similar price.

http://www.lexus.com/build-your-lexus/#!/series/LS/

I didn't price the short wheel base LS because I'm pretty sure the G90 aligns with the long wheel base. But $90k does sound right for the short wheel base LS...

I dont think any "for " profit company in this day and age continues to market something that they consistently lose money on

and what do you mean the Mercedes C class is a POS?

seriously?

I assume you owned one and can speak from a personal level?

because the professional reviews do not agree with what you say
In the United States, Mercedes sells more C class, E class and M class vehicles than they do the S class

does this mean all of them sell in large numbers due to the reputation of the S class?..lol

Warren

There's probably some truth to his POS comment. I actually like the new C-Class as well as the previous generation. I drove the previous generation a few times and it was a really nice blend of comfort and good handling. However, many, many people do consider it a much lesser can than the E-Class or S-Class.

Now the NEW C-Class - I really like it. But a couple of people I know who work in Mercedes-Benz service say the car is garbage. <shrug> - I really don't get it but I have to take their opinion into consideration...

As for the G90 and S-Class helping to sell cars - that really is a big factor... These are "halo cars" and do bring people into the brand. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can afford an S-Class who buy a C-Class for various reasons (handling, fuel efficiency, simply like it better) - especially when it comes to the AMG cars. But most are sold to people who can't afford to buy a more expensive Mercedes. I don't have stats to back this up - it's only my opinion...

 

[turnne]

I didn't price the short wheel base LS because I'm pretty sure the G90 aligns with the long wheel base. But $90k does sound right for the short wheel base LS...



There's probably some truth to his POS comment. I actually like the new C-Class as well as the previous generation. I drove the previous generation a few times and it was a really nice blend of comfort and good handling. However, many, many people do consider it a much lesser can than the E-Class or S-Class.

Now the NEW C-Class - I really like it. But a couple of people I know who work in Mercedes-Benz service say the car is garbage. <shrug> - I really don't get it but I have to take their opinion into consideration...

As for the G90 and S-Class helping to sell cars - that really is a big factor... These are "halo cars" and do bring people into the brand. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can afford an S-Class who buy a C-Class for various reasons (handling, fuel efficiency, simply like it better) - especially when it comes to the AMG cars. But most are sold to people who can't afford to buy a more expensive Mercedes. I don't have stats to back this up - it's only my opinion...

I will say this again
if Hyundai thinks they can sell the G90..in any quantity...at a price similar to a Lexus LS they are really kidding themselves
neither the G90 nor the Lexus LS have the technology of the finishes of the Mercedes S class
To boot Lexus has a stellar dealer experience and resale history

I haven't driven the most recent C class...though frankly I think the last body style was a more balanced and refined car than the first generation Genesis.
I have not driven the 2nd generation Genesis so I cant speak to that

If someone in the service at a Mercedes dealer says the new C class is "garbage"...what are they comparing to ?
A new S class..or perhaps the new Maybach version?
Compared to either of those on a finish and technology standpoint..no doubt it would be

I really doubt that Mercedes tech is comparing it to a Genesis.
Its all relative..lol

Ofcourse there are people that buy C and E classes that could afford and S class.
And some would like an S class that cant afford it

But to say that everyone who walks in the dealership wants an S class...but walks out with a lower model because its all they can afford is laughable

Does everyone that bought a Genesis want an Equus?
Does everyone want a 5000( or larger) sq ft home?..etc..etc

My point was that was a silly statement from the start...and is just an opinion
Not based on facts

Warren

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I think there are more people who want an E-Class than an S-Class.

Hyundai isn't going to sell the G90 for the same price as the Lexus LS.

I'm not sure why the people I know at Mercedes-Benz service say the new C-Class is garbage. If I were more interested in the car I'd have had a few questions...

I will say this again
if Hyundai thinks they can sell the G90..in any quantity...at a price similar to a Lexus LS they are really kidding themselves
neither the G90 nor the Lexus LS have the technology of the finishes of the Mercedes S class
To boot Lexus has a stellar dealer experience and resale history

I haven't driven the most recent C class...though frankly I think the last body style was a more balanced and refined car than the first generation Genesis.
I have not driven the 2nd generation Genesis so I cant speak to that

If someone in the service at a Mercedes dealer says the new C class is "garbage"...what are they comparing to ?
A new S class..or perhaps the new Maybach version?
Compared to either of those on a finish and technology standpoint..no doubt it would be

I really doubt that Mercedes tech is comparing it to a Genesis.
Its all relative..lol

Ofcourse there are people that buy C and E classes that could afford and S class.
And some would like an S class that cant afford it

But to say that everyone who walks in the dealership wants an S class...but walks out with a lower model because its all they can afford is laughable

Does everyone that bought a Genesis want an Equus?
Does everyone want a 5000( or larger) sq ft home?..etc..etc

My point was that was a silly statement from the start...and is just an opinion
Not based on facts

Warren

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[turnne]

I think there are more people who want an E-Class than an S-Class.

Hyundai isn't going to sell the G90 for the same price as the Lexus LS.

I'm not sure why the people I know at Mercedes-Benz service say the new C-Class is garbage. If I were more interested in the car I'd have had a few questions...

I would say the E class is going to be the best selling luxury sedan in its price class, in the United States, by a wide margin....a price class that includes the G90

I am hearing numbers in the upper $70's for a G90 V8
what prices have you heard?


As for the C class...it could be called garbage,relatively speaking...when compared to other cars that come in beside it that 4-5x the price

Its all relative

what do you think a tech that works on a G90 would say about an Elantra?

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

I am hearing numbers in the upper $70's for a G90 V8
what prices have you heard?

The "Hyundai Listens" website said the G90 will probably start in the mid 60's. I don't know what that means in terms of engine choices.

Expect deep discounts if they are needed to move the cars, as the US dollar is still very strong against the Korean wan.

 

[MadCat]

The new C-Class is garbage! That's true

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Hyundai would be insane to price the G90 too close to the Lexus LS. They're not insane. So we don't need to worry. Remember, I really like the new C-Class. I don't know what or why techs are giving it a bad name...

I would say the E class is going to be the best selling luxury sedan in its price class, in the United States, by a wide margin....a price class that includes the G90

I am hearing numbers in the upper $70's for a G90 V8
what prices have you heard?


As for the C class...it could be called garbage,relatively speaking...when compared to other cars that come in beside it that 4-5x the price

Its all relative

what do you think a tech that works on a G90 would say about an Elantra?

Warren

 

[turnne]

Hyundai would be insane to price the G90 too close to the Lexus LS. .

100% agree with that
However if the G90 starts in the mid $60's...I dont think its out of the question for the V8 with a better trim package/more options etc to get close or be at an $80K
The loaded V8 Kia K900 is $68K and I can imagine there will be a definite bump in price over the Kia K900, with the G90 V8
Even though the Lexus LS is definitely not the cutting edge of full size sedans in technology...I think the market will need to see more than $10K different in a G90 and Lexus LS

In fact I thinking a $20K difference in the G90 and Lexus LS will get some people to look at the G90

Clearly...heavy discounting can make up some of the slack as well
But they need to start the heavy discounting on the G90 on day one based on what I understand the sticker prices to be


Warren

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I think the Kia K900 is a pretty good gauge for a potential Genesis G90 price... I actually built up a K900 to just a hair shy of $69k - which is strange because I could have sworn a year or so ago that I built one up to $72. But anyway... I don't think Hyundai can price the G90 too much higher. Perhaps $5k over the Kia at $74 or maybe even $75k for a fully loaded Genesis G90. The LS STARTS at a hair shy of $73k so I think Hyundai would be in a VERY good position to offer such a car for that price.

I think Lexus is going to be in for some serious hurting unless they make some major enhancements to their weakling drivetrains. If the next generation drivetrains offer German-like performance upgrades than Hyundai's "Genesis Motors" will have a steeper hill to climb. Otherwise, I think people are getting a little bored of the same old, same old with Lexus...

100% agree with that
However if the G90 starts in the mid $60's...I dont think its out of the question for the V8 with a better trim package/more options etc to get close or be at an $80K
The loaded V8 Kia K900 is $68K and I can imagine there will be a definite bump in price over the Kia K900, with the G90 V8
Even though the Lexus LS is definitely not the cutting edge of full size sedans in technology...I think the market will need to see more than $10K different in a G90 and Lexus LS

In fact I thinking a $20K difference in the G90 and Lexus LS will get some people to look at the G90

Clearly...heavy discounting can make up some of the slack as well
But they need to start the heavy discounting on the G90 on day one based on what I understand the sticker prices to be


Warren

 

[turnne]

I think the Kia K900 is a pretty good gauge for a potential Genesis G90 price... I actually built up a K900 to just a hair shy of $69k - which is strange because I could have sworn a year or so ago that I built one up to $72. But anyway... I don't think Hyundai can price the G90 too much higher. Perhaps $5k over the Kia at $74 or maybe even $75k for a fully loaded Genesis G90. The LS STARTS at a hair shy of $73k so I think Hyundai would be in a VERY good position to offer such a car for that price.

I think Lexus is going to be in for some serious hurting unless they make some major enhancements to their weakling drivetrains. If the next generation drivetrains offer German-like performance upgrades than Hyundai's "Genesis Motors" will have a steeper hill to climb. Otherwise, I think people are getting a little bored of the same old, same old with Lexus...

BUT....I suspect that the Kia K900's dont sell for anywhere near that price
which makes me think that price is not worth the sticker its printed on

I say that because it looks like they lose 50% depreciation from sticker in a year

Check some prices on used 2015 Kia K900's....

I dont think Hyundai can expect to sell a G90 within $10K of a Lexus LS

I dont think its so much an issue with the drivetrains
Lexus is behind in technology at the top end
The current LS is behind on technology with even the new Mercedes E class

However...they have a great reputation at the dealership level, long term reliability and high resale
That is the other unknown with the G90
Will it have Kia K900 type resale value?

Warren

 

[chris41]

Several months ago, I checked out a never titled 2015 K900 at my local Kia dealer with 9k miles and priced at 36k. It had been sitting on the lot for a very long time and they had just recently dropped the price. I test drove the car and it was VERY nice!. My only complaint was it's RWD and it didn't have the VIP package - which included HUD.

I started the process to see how much they would give me for my car, when somebody from Florida purchased it over the phone. I was mildly heartbroken but had no idea the Genesis Ultimate AWD even existed. I guess everything works out for a reason....

 

[Sal Collaziano]

The G90 is going to be a much better car than the K900. I'm sure the second generation K900 will be equally impressive...

 

[YEH]

^ The production version of the Kia GT is going to be a better than the current K900.

The problem w/ the Equus and K900, aside from not offering AWD, is that they are old-school Korean luxury, which is basically like old-school Buick/Cadillac ride and handling (soft and cossetting) and the interiors (esp. the front) are a generation behind (for these chauffeur-driven sedans, it made sense to have higher quality switchgear for the passenger than for the driver).

The current LS460 starts at $72,520 - figure that the next gen LS (w/ a V8 which likely will get FI) will get a price bump where it will start at around $75-76k (maybe higher).

But the next gen LS will also likely get a 2nd, lower petrol powertrain (likely a turbo 6) which might keep the starting price at around $72-73k.

Think Hyundai would be smart to keep the starting price of the turbo 6 G90 at around $60k, if not a little lower.

Keep in mind that the G90 will also have to deal w/ the domestic CT6 and Conti.

The supercharged 3.0 V6 Conti will start at $58.3k whereas the 3.0 TTV6 CT6 (w/ AWD standard) clocks in at $65.4k (w/ desti).