Sporadic Low Brake Pedal Issue

[Vince2]

I DON'T have this soft brake problem (THANK GOD) but what I do have is an intermittent absense of Audio, "buggy" automatic steering wheel positioning and an occasional rough idle...it all totals up to the often mentioned electrical gremlins. There are threads on each of the issues that my car occasioanly suffers and in each thread the predictable response of Hyundai (replace the offending part) did not correct the problem and (in the case of the dead audio) introduced other issues.

 

[mikebw22]

[/QUOTE] After the first incident about three weeks ago the Hyundai dealer in San Jose Ca replaced the front brakes and changed the brake fluid at a cost of about $700. Yesterday the brake pedal again went almost to the floor while stopping on a city street. I almost rear ended the car ahead of me. The only way I can describe the problem is the brakes are good and then they are bad on the next application. No warning lights, no gradual deterioration, just instant very poor brakes. Pumping improves the brakes slightly but they rapidly faded when held. They car is at the dealer again and the shop forman has told me he will replace the master cylinder, cost about $650 -$750.
Can anyone tell me if this problem is just part of the high tech cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, power assist, abs etc or is this just poor engineering in the Hyundai Genesis?[/QUOTE]

Your master cylinider and brake booster can be tested. They don't need to sell you parts to do the testing. If they want to put there own parts on for testing that's ok. From other posts including my own experience with this intermittent problem you probably have a bad ABS module. A bad solenoid in the module can cause your intermittent brake loss. It seems to be showing up more often.
As much as an ABS module cost $2500-$3000, try to get it under warranty since it is becoming more of an issue. If not through the dealer call Hyundai consumer affairs.
More technology and more electronics create more issues with allot of cars.

 

[hardplug]

I also have/had this problem with the brakes flooring all the way to the floor without stopping my 2009 Genesis. My car is currently at the Hyundai dealership being repaired under warranty. I went ot the dealer for an oil change (brought my own synethic 5w 20 mobile 1), and the tech said my brakes floored without stopping vehicle. He said he would review. They then told me they attempted to drain the master cylinder and that didn't fix the issue, and pads and rotor, etc all looked ok. So they then ordered a new master cylinder for replacement. Immediately I got on this forum, and I called them back and said indications from many on the internet is the problem originates with a faculty ABS module. After they installed the master cylinder, they called and said Hyundai requires them to first replace the master cylinder, hoping that will fit problem. So, I believe, they are somewhat aware of this situation... Now they need to order the expensive ABS module and need to keep my car longer. So hopefully the replacement of the ABS module which is under my warranty fixes the problem. This really is a dangerous situation, if brakes go out in a critical situation.

 

[Sure]

Same problem here on my 2009 4.6 with 64K miles. I had brakes going to the floor but still able to stop the car. Brought it in last Wednesday, but they had to order a master cylinder and put it in. They did that yesterday, but then told me they wanted to test this AM and make sure everything was okay, which makes me think they are aware of this issue. Anyway, it's 4:20PM and still no call back. I'm assuming the tests did not go well.

I'm glad I found this thread. The dealer has been good and was doing the work at no charge since I bought the car CPO 4 months ago, even though the brakes are not under warranty.

So from what I have read here, basically replacement of the ABS module is needed to really fix the problem?

 

[Type4.6]

Yes. They did that on mine without going to the master cylinder first because they had one car before me that had the same problem. Good luck and get it fix!

 

[Sure]

Finally got it back after over 2 weeks, Master cylinder was replaced, that didn't do it. Actually, I picked it up and 15 minutes the problem was back so I turned around and brought it back. They replaced the ABS unit. Seems to work fine now. Service dept handled it well. They gave me a free rental for a week and after I brought it back the 2nd time, they put me in another Genesis. Also, they didn't charge me anything despite the fact that, at 65K, it was out of warranty.

 

[Locomotion]

Hello, everyone.

Well, this just happened to me and it's almost deja vu reading your posts. A few days ago I was driving in my '09 V6 Genesis on the interstate for about 20 minutes and took a downhill exit with a stop sign at the bottom of the hill. Thank the universe that the road was empty. Sure enough, I hit the brakes to slow down and they went to the floor; and the car barely slowed down at all. As I got closer to the stop sign I had to pump the brakes about 4 more times with them going all the way to the floor each time. The car slowed to about 10 miles an hour. As nobody was at the sign I was able to coast slowly through the stop sign and turn left to use the emergency brake to come to a complete stop. I then turned the car off and back on to try the brakes again. You guessed it, they went to the floor about 4 more times and then the pressure FINALLY returned. This is some scary stuff since I was on the highway for about 20 minutes and I know for a fact that I would have crashed into someone had there been a line to get off the interstate from rush hour traffic.

I have dropped it off at the dealer, they gave me a new Genesis loaner (they are great about that), and said they would look into the problem. I got a call from them today saying they cannot repeat the problem (of course) but also mentioned that they had to replace the Master Brake Cylinder on a Genesis just last week for the exact same problem. My coworker also said this dad has a Genesis and had the exact same problem 2 weeks ago, to which the dealer replaced some ABS parts on his car. I will keep you posted on what my dealer says.

People, this is crazy!!!! I'm trying to remain calm here. how in the hell am I supposed to be comfortable in a car that might not brake at any given moment? Is Hyundai actually waiting for crash and burn lawsuits before they recall these cars? From what I am hearing and reading this is NOT a sporadic problem if you look at how many of us this is happening to!!! Think about all the others who aren't even on this forum. I signed up for this very reason to warn all of you in hopes that you don't end up in a serious accident.

Wish me luck.

 

[Mark_888]

I think that everyone who has had this problem should file a complaint here:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

You may end up saving someone's life.

If this happened to me, and I had even the slightest accident, I would contact a personal injury attorney immediately.

 

[Locomotion]

I think that everyone who has had this problem should file a complaint here:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

You may end up saving someone's life.

If this happened to me, and I had even the slightest accident, I would contact a personal injury attorney immediately.

Thank you Mark_888. I just filed a complaint. But you won't believe this...I am pretty much the only complaint on there for brakes with the exception of 1 minor report. I wish everyone on this forum would post there so they will take this seriously. I hyperlinked this forum but that doesn't mean they will go to it.

Please, if you have posted earlier on this forum for this problem then go to the website Mark provided and file a complaint.

Thank you.

 

[Gunkk]

.. there have been ABS system designs that can fail in a mode that basically bypasses the entire braking system. GM pickups years ago had a failure type in the metal valve assembly that "bled" brake pressure away to eliminate wheel lockup: if that valve got jammed in the "bleed" position then all brake pressure was lost. Metal shavings were commonly found in these valves. I don't know the Genesis system well enough to know if there are any failure modes that can lead to the ABS effectively bypassing all brake pressure. I hope not though; there's no reason for such a design in this day and age.

Well I'll give you one guess at what my dealer just replaced on my Genny.

Yep that's it! ABS module failed. Tech stated it was bypassing fluid around the master cylinder and allowing the brake pedal to go to the floor.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[Locomotion]

Dealer Service Manager called today. He couldn't repeat the problem while driving. However....he said when he was sitting at a stop light the brake would slowly go to the floor.

He called Hyundai today and they said to replace the Brake Master Cylinder. If that doesn't fix the problem, then he is going to fix the ABS Brake Module. Why not just replace the ABS Brake Module I don't know, but at least its a start.

I will be in touch.

 

[Locomotion]

Dealer called and said to come pick up the car this afternoon. They said the Brake Master Cylinder had been replaced and the car was fine. Something didn't feel right when I drove around the dealership so I went back; and again they assured me it was good to go.

10 minutes later I was home, parked the car in the garage for 3 hours, and then needed to run errands. Well, I couldn't get the engine to start because the brakes wouldn't budge an millimeter when I pressed them to activate the auto-start button. So I pushed the brakes really hard and tried over and over to turn on the engine. The lights came on, but no engine. 4 attempts later the engine turned on. I thought "this is a fluke because of the new master cylinder." 10 minutes of driving-around-downtown later and the engine light came on....and the brakes definitely felt like something was seriously wrong.

Wonderful.

 

[axplayer]

Well, I'm one of the guilty parties who posted about his issue and then never followed up. Just now posted my follow up here: http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?p=109901&posted=1#post109901

Glad I'm not the only one, but man would I like to get this fixed.

 

[wvluvr]

While driving home last night traffic came to a sudden stop and I had to hit the brakes harder than normal. There was a grinding sound never heard previously. Once traffic started moving again and I came to a light, the brake pedal went almost to the floor and I had to press harder to get the car to stop. I had my daughter in the car with me and we were both petrified. Not a good feeling. I called the dealer immediately, Fitzgerald Hyundai in Gaithersburg, MD, to make an appointment for today and drove it there last night. I will be sure to provide an update as to what they come up with. I can tell you that my previous experiences with this service dept. has left a lot to be desired so I'm thankful for this website and all of the great feedback.

I've never had any brake issues before but occasionally while coming to a stop or while stopped the car felt like it would lurch forward slightly. This issue was not on a consistent basis.

 

[Locomotion]

WVLUVR,

I completely know how you feel. I NEVER had a break problem before and the next thing you know I am coming off the interstate at 8-70 mph and the brakes are going to the floor. Please file a complaint at the website listed above as this process will likely be helpful to get a recall going in order to save lives.

An update on my car, the replaced the Brake Master Cylinder but then the car went haywire right after. Apparently when the replaced the part the seal fell off and they didn't notice it. This seal needs to be in place because the brakes use the vacuum from the engine to help the car stop. No seal means no vacuum and my car was acting completely crazy. Having said all of that, I have put several hundred miles on the car since I picked it back up and it's driving like a dream again.

I'm sorry to hear your dealer isn't a good one. Mine is always great and they take great care of me whenever they can.

Good luck!!!!

 

[Locomotion]

I'm BAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just drove on the interstate for 15 minutes and exited. Anyone want to guess what happened? The f'ing car didn't stop when I applied the brakes as they went to the floor yet again. I pumped them 3 times and then had to slam the emergency break to keep from going through the stop light and into crossing traffic. Replacing the Brake Master Cylinder seemed to work just fine until just now, which means that this car is completely unpredictable and unreliable.

I am at home waiting for Hyundai's Road Side Assistance to show up, pick up this death trap, and drop it off at the dealership for what feels like the 100th time since I have owned this piece of shit. I will NOT be taking it back until they replace the ABS Brake Module (edited post because earlier I said they need to replace the Brake Master Cylinder - which they have already replaced), even if I have to get a lawyer involved. It's so sad because I have loved this machine for much of its life.

I am making a prediction today. Someone out there, if not myself, is going to be killed in a car accident because of this problem. How can I morally sell this car knowing that the brakes could fail at any moment? This feels like a curse.

 

[Mark_888]

I will NOT be taking it back until they replace the Brake Master Cylinder, even if I have to get a lawyer involved.

Didn't you say they already replaced the Brake Master Cylinder? I thought most people are saying the real problem is the ABS system.

It looks like this is going to affect most early model Genesis sedans unless people who have had the problem step up and record the issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I know that Locomotion has already done this.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

 

[Gunkk]

I had my ABS unit replaced a few weeks ago after I had a brake pedal go to the floor. After that I could feel the pedal moving (slow leak) with moderate pressure. Tech was able to reproduce it on a test drive. The tech called HMA tech service and they told him to replace the ABS unit. No problems since for me.

Hyundai knows about it. Your problem sounds like the tech/dealer not doing the diagnosis properly. There are one or two posts on this forum with you can search for. Recommend you print them out and hand them to the dealer's service manager or higher up, along with a letter from a lawyer putting them on notice of negligence liability.

Or... go to another dealer.

 

[Locomotion]

Didn't you say they already replaced the Brake Master Cylinder? I thought most people are saying the real problem is the ABS system.

It looks like this is going to affect most early model Genesis sedans unless people who have had the problem step up and record the issue with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. I know that Locomotion has already done this.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Mark_888, you are correct. I meant to say ABS Brake Module. I was a little frantic last night when I posted this as I was still waiting for the tow truck to show up at my house. I edited the post to say ABS Brake Module.

I picked up my loaner this morning and spoke to the service manager. He said Hyundai is sending down one of their Field Tech's to look at the car. He drove it this morning and couldn't replicate the problem (of course) but they want to keep it for 3 weeks until it happens to them. I told him he was play Russian Roulette driving that car around so he said he may make the Field Tech drive it instead. Regardless, as I told him the brakes worked fine until they decided not to work any longer. This is some scary stuff.

 

[Locomotion]

I had my ABS unit replaced a few weeks ago after I had a brake pedal go to the floor. After that I could feel the pedal moving (slow leak) with moderate pressure. Tech was able to reproduce it on a test drive. The tech called HMA tech service and they told him to replace the ABS unit. No problems since for me.

Hyundai knows about it. Your problem sounds like the tech/dealer not doing the diagnosis properly. There are one or two posts on this forum with you can search for. Recommend you print them out and hand them to the dealer's service manager or higher up, along with a letter from a lawyer putting them on notice of negligence liability.

Or... go to another dealer.

Gunkk, I sent the service manager an email with several posts on this website showing people complaining of brake failure. I have seen at least three, which reference each other here and there. But I appreciate the help!