Sporadic Low Brake Pedal Issue

[wvluvr]

I think this is a bunch of crap but I heard this on the radio driving home today.

From the LA Times on 10/21:
Just hours after federal safety regulators have opened an investigation into problems with the brakes on the Hyundai Genesis on Monday, the South Korean automaker announced a recall for the car.

Hyundai said it will recall about 27,500 Genesis sedans sold in the United States for the 2009 through 2012 model years.

Hyundai plans to replace the brake fluid on the vehicles. Already, the automaker has been replacing the fluid in some cars when owners complained of problems as part of a service campaign that fell short of a full recall.

"The fluid causes corrosion on the valves, which creates the soft pedal feel. The fix is a different type of fluid. It has an additive that prevents the corrosion," said Miles Johnson, a Hyundai spokesman.

 

[Jean]

I finally heard this morning on a local TV station about the recall of the 2009 Genesis. Its about time before someone gets killed!

 

[Mark_888]

I finally heard this morning on a local TV station about the recall of the 2009 Genesis. Its about time before someone gets killed!

The recall is for the brake fluid replacement. However, if the car is old enough, corrosion may have already occurred in the ABS Module. The other news is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has opened an investigation into the problem, which is what prompted Hyundai to change the fluid change from "replace brake fluid with DOT-4 if car already in the shop for some other reason" to a mandatory recall.

 

[Jean]

Mark_888

So, after my complaint, and several visits to dealer,the ABS module was replaced. So does this mean that the brake fluid that was also replaced is still not the correct one? I do rememberr being told that the was a TSB concerning fluid, but that was several months ago, around march or April. It seems that there is another recall on the brake fluid. Hopefully I will be notified concerning the anti-corrosive brake fluid next month. Thanks.

 

[Mark_888]

Mark_888

So, after my complaint, and several visits to dealer,the ABS module was replaced. So does this mean that the brake fluid that was also replaced is still not the correct one? I do rememberr being told that the was a TSB concerning fluid, but that was several months ago, around march or April. It seems that there is another recall on the brake fluid. Hopefully I will be notified concerning the anti-corrosive brake fluid next month. Thanks.

The TSB that has been in effect for awhile to change the brake fluid from DOT-3 to DOT-4 is the same as the recall announced yesterday. The only difference is that the original TSB was only applied to cars that were brought in to a dealer for some other reason, and now HMA will proactively notify all affected owners to bring in their cars for the brake fluid change (if not already changed). HMA estimated that about 60% of affected cars already have had the new DOT-4 brake fluid installed under the TSB while in the shop for some other service.

According to Hyundai, the DOT-4 fluid has some anti-corrosive properties (in addition to higher boiling point) that will help prevent ABS module failure. That still leaves the question open of how much corrosion has already occurred on older Genesis sedans prior to the brake fluid TSB, even if the brake fluid has been recently replaced under the TSB/recall, and how that will affect the ABS module and possible brake failures in the future.

Since you have a new ABS module and new DOT-4 brake fluid, you should be in good shape unless the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) determines that the ABS module needs to be redesigned.

 

[gthmcty1]

I forgot to update my situation...my apologies the dealership actually replaced the ABS module not the BCM module, they replaced and everything was working fine. I had to take it back 2 days later because one of the fittings on the new module had some issues and it leaked brake fluid onto the floor of my garage they got it squared away and it has been fine ever since...oh BTW it was replaced on Hyundai's dime!!!!

What actually triggered all of this was I went and made a post on to Hyundai's facebook page asking "if any other owners with a Genesis ever experienced the soft brake pedal issue where it falls completely to the floor?" and I received a call the very NEXT day from Hyundai them selves!!!!!
Since that page is VERY public they wanted to get to me ASAP before I started posting more? The power of social media!!!!!!!!!

I also received an email back from the NHTSA asking me to describe the situation.......

 

[Mark_888]

I also received an email back from the NHTSA asking me to describe the situation.......

I hope NHTSA follows up on this and makes sure no permanent damage to the ABS unit has already been done to some of the older Genesis sedans, even though the brake fluid may have been changed to DOT-4 recently.

 

[Type4.6]

Finally!

 

[vappro]

don't spend no more money
Hyundai will notify NHTSA this week that it’s going to recall certain 2009 through 2012 Genesis sedan models in the United States. Roughly 27,500 vehicles will be impacted by this voluntary call back.

The company will replace the brake fluid in these cars with a new formulation that contains corrosion inhibitors. Owners of affected vehicles will be contacted via first-class mail about this recall. Repairs will be made at no cost to them.

To really take care of its customers the company is willing to pick up affected cars and give owners loaner vehicles while their Genesis sedans are being worked on. Miles Johnson, Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations for the company said “We just want to make sure everyone feels safe.”

So far, NHTSA has received 23 complaints about the Genesis’ braking system. Drivers are grumbling about increased pedal travel and lowered overall effectiveness of the binders. Reports indicate the issues could be caused by a defective ABS module, likely caused by the brake fluid.

One crash was supposedly caused by this potential issue, but that’s not all. In another complaint one driver had to use the parking brake to stop, which resulted in the car losing control and going into a spin.

Johnson said “Hyundai will cooperate fully with NHTSA in this matter.” Stay tuned for updates, and if you own a 2009 Genesis Sedan please drive carefully.

 

[Mark_888]

don't spend no more money
Hyundai will notify NHTSA this week that it’s going to recall certain 2009 through 2012 Genesis sedan models in the United States. Roughly 27,500 vehicles will be impacted by this voluntary call back.

The company will replace the brake fluid in these cars with a new formulation that contains corrosion inhibitors. Owners of affected vehicles will be contacted via first-class mail about this recall. Repairs will be made at no cost to them.

To really take care of its customers the company is willing to pick up affected cars and give owners loaner vehicles while their Genesis sedans are being worked on. Miles Johnson, Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations for the company said “We just want to make sure everyone feels safe.”

So far, NHTSA has received 23 complaints about the Genesis’ braking system. Drivers are grumbling about increased pedal travel and lowered overall effectiveness of the binders. Reports indicate the issues could be caused by a defective ABS module, likely caused by the brake fluid.

One crash was supposedly caused by this potential issue, but that’s not all. In another complaint one driver had to use the parking brake to stop, which resulted in the car losing control and going into a spin.

Johnson said “Hyundai will cooperate fully with NHTSA in this matter.” Stay tuned for updates, and if you own a 2009 Genesis Sedan please drive carefully.

This is very old news. Here is just one thread on the subject:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=12395

One problem still remaining is that replacing the brake fluid with DOT-4 does not reverse corrosion that has already occurred on the zinc plated valves of the HECU (that causes the brake failure) and is only designed to prevent additional corrosion.

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[DRS]

I have the same problem Sporadic Low Brake Pedal
Itook the daler and they toll me is a ABS Module.soon will make a recall

Check this article
Hyundai’s Genesis Sedan is being probed for potential brake problems. Some 40,000 cars are under the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s microscope.



Hyundai will notify NHTSA this week that it’s going to recall certain 2009 through 2012 Genesis sedan models in the United States. Roughly 27,500 vehicles will be impacted by this voluntary call back.

The company will replace the brake fluid in these cars with a new formulation that contains corrosion inhibitors. Owners of affected vehicles will be contacted via first-class mail about this recall. Repairs will be made at no cost to them.

To really take care of its customers the company is willing to pick up affected cars and give owners loaner vehicles while their Genesis sedans are being worked on. Miles Johnson, Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations for the company said “We just want to make sure everyone feels safe.”

So far, NHTSA has received 23 complaints about the Genesis’ braking system. Drivers are grumbling about increased pedal travel and lowered overall effectiveness of the binders. Reports indicate the issues could be caused by a defective ABS module, likely caused by the brake fluid.

One crash was supposedly caused by this potential issue, but that’s not all. In another complaint one driver had to use the parking brake to stop, which resulted in the car losing control and going into a spin.

Johnson said “Hyundai will cooperate fully with NHTSA in this matter.” Stay tuned for updates, and if you own a 2009 Genesis Sedan please drive carefully.
MAKE YOUR CLAIM TO National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s

What year is yours?

 

[ATA]

Low brake pedal (4.6 L) after ESC activated (snow), dealer changed fluid IAW recall, said unless computer read out no change of module. Drove away with continued low brake pedal...dangerous. Returned next day they "electronically" bled the brakes IAW factory guidance...then OK. Not a good experience. Seems weird that the activation of the ESC caused the low pedal....but it happened that way.

 

[Gunkk]

Your abs module is bad. Dont listen to dealer BS, be persistent and make them fix it. Then log a complaint on the nhtsa website. You may save a life, including your own.

 

[GenTex]

ATA - Gunkk is exactly right, don't stand for dealer BS. My first trip to the dealer, they gave me the same answer you got, no error code, no ABS module. You cannot trust that it returned to normal again because of something they did electronically. Also, replacing the fluid with DOT 4 does nothing for the ABS hydraulic valve module, if the module is already corroded. Look at the first post on page 1(yes, I opened this can of worms), and read subsequent posts. You'll see that my wife's Genny pedal went to almost the floor, then miraculously worked fine for quite awhile. That's the scary part, you can't predict when it will happen. The second time it happened, I took the car to the same dealer, but this time was armed with all the pages of this thread printed out and some strong words. Still no error code, but I got the car back with a brand new ABS hydraulic module and the DOT 3 changed out with DOT 4 fluid, no charge to me.

 

[tehcrna]

I have experienced the brake failure issue. Driving at approximately 40 mph approaching a red light, I applied the brake pedal had no stopping power and the brake pedal went straight to the floor. I pumped the brakes and was able to gain weak brake power. I rolled to a stop partially into the intersection. A terifying moment indeed.

While at a stop, I pumped the brakes and noted the brake pedal would fall to the floor under constant pressure but I had braking power so I was able to drive home. In May, 2103 the brake fluid was exchanged to DOT 4 as part of the recall. The brake failure occurred in late December. I just brought the vehicle to the dealer and was told there was air in the HECU and the vehicle was ready for pick-up. It does not seem logical for air to create an intermittent brake failure. I understand the physics involved of air in the braking system would cause a spongy pedal since air is compressible. I was told the HECU was "tested" and is within factory specifications. Being that I had a brake failure I called and addressed my concerns to the service manager who said he would have the vehicle evaluated again, since I do not feel the vehicle is safe. I am awaiting the news. In other threads it seems the dealership has to replicate the issue before Hyundai will allow them to replace the HECU which makes me wish they will experience the terror of brake failure.

I just received the Hyundai recall "campaign 114" which stated the original brake fluid may lead to "Corrosion may lead to a gel build upon the module's valves affecting the valve's operation, resulting in low/soft brake pedal with reduced brake effectiveness, which may increase the risk of a vehicle crash."

My question is, how is it possible to inspect the internal valves of the HECU? How can the HECU be tested for an intermittent problem?

I spoke to Hyundai "Premium" Customer Service to learn how this can be done. I was informed the have no technical support available and they refused to have anyone from corporate technical service contact me to explain. Ostencibly, I do not want to drive a vehicle with an unreliable brake system as this is a safety issue for anyone in my vehicle or sharing the road. After over an hour with "Premium Customer Service" I had no success is resolving the issue. I was told in order to escalate this safety concern I have another brake failure that results in a crash. I am shockingly disappointed, to say the least. Abysmal customer service is a great way to ruin a corporation's reputation and fail.

I purchased my Genesis in early 2009 and have been a huge fan of the Genesis and share my experiences with anyone interested. Now, I have a brake failure issue which dissolves any confidence in the safety and reliability of my Genesis. The only instance I had thought to replace my 2009 Genesis was when I saw the new model Genesis. Given my experience, I can not consider buying another Hyundai.

 

[sidneybnice]

Brakes is the last system to not get right!

Do I understand correctly, Hyundai has finally taken financial and ethical responsibility for their poor design and/or poor quality by implementing a recall covering the failing brake system?

If yes, unfortunately for me the recall came too late!

Several months ago I took my Genesis to the Hyundai dealer in Humble Texas - I was told I would have to pay for fixing the failing brake system.

While attempting to get Hyundai to pay for fixing the failing brake system - I experienced multiple ZERO brake events - 4 times! Very scary!

Additionally low pedal became normal - for the Hyundai.
The brake problem started with the car under 60k.
By the time I gave up fighting the car had ~62k.

I was not going to give Hyundai ~2k to fix
Hyundai's poor design and/or poor quality!
(as I was told it would cost to repair)

Scary thought - how many 09 Genesis' were sold/on the road today?

Was the problem fixed in 2010, 2011, 2012,.... model years?

Is the Hyundai poor design and/or poor quality
brake problem limited to the 09 Genesis?

I did not want to continue risking the lives of my
family by driving a Hyundai that at anytime
could have ZERO braking ability.

Fortunately I don't have to risk my life any longer in a Hyundai.

Out!

 

[Mark_888]

I have experienced the brake failure issue. Driving at approximately 40 mph approaching a red light, I applied the brake pedal had no stopping power and the brake pedal went straight to the floor. I pumped the brakes and was able to gain weak brake power. I rolled to a stop partially into the intersection. A terifying moment indeed.

While at a stop, I pumped the brakes and noted the brake pedal would fall to the floor under constant pressure but I had braking power so I was able to drive home. In May, 2103 the brake fluid was exchanged to DOT 4 as part of the recall. The brake failure occurred in late December. I just brought the vehicle to the dealer and was told there was air in the HECU and the vehicle was ready for pick-up. It does not seem logical for air to create an intermittent brake failure. I understand the physics involved of air in the braking system would cause a spongy pedal since air is compressible. I was told the HECU was "tested" and is within factory specifications. Being that I had a brake failure I called and addressed my concerns to the service manager who said he would have the vehicle evaluated again, since I do not feel the vehicle is safe. I am awaiting the news. In other threads it seems the dealership has to replicate the issue before Hyundai will allow them to replace the HECU which makes me wish they will experience the terror of brake failure.

I just received the Hyundai recall "campaign 114" which stated the original brake fluid may lead to "Corrosion may lead to a gel build upon the module's valves affecting the valve's operation, resulting in low/soft brake pedal with reduced brake effectiveness, which may increase the risk of a vehicle crash."

My question is, how is it possible to inspect the internal valves of the HECU? How can the HECU be tested for an intermittent problem?

I spoke to Hyundai "Premium" Customer Service to learn how this can be done. I was informed the have no technical support available and they refused to have anyone from corporate technical service contact me to explain. Ostencibly, I do not want to drive a vehicle with an unreliable brake system as this is a safety issue for anyone in my vehicle or sharing the road. After over an hour with "Premium Customer Service" I had no success is resolving the issue. I was told in order to escalate this safety concern I have another brake failure that results in a crash. I am shockingly disappointed, to say the least. Abysmal customer service is a great way to ruin a corporation's reputation and fail.

I purchased my Genesis in early 2009 and have been a huge fan of the Genesis and share my experiences with anyone interested. Now, I have a brake failure issue which dissolves any confidence in the safety and reliability of my Genesis. The only instance I had thought to replace my 2009 Genesis was when I saw the new model Genesis. Given my experience, I can not consider buying another Hyundai.

Please file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), even if you no longer own the car:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

A recall was issued for this problem to replace the brake fluid with DOT-4 (instead of DOT-3 installed at factory on early models). Also, if your brakes fail, Hyundai should fix them even if out of warranty. There is also a provision to get reimbursed by Hyundai if you had to fix them yourself (in or out of warranty).

Please read the following thread for more info:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=12395

 

[Mark_888]

Brakes is the last system to not get right!

Do I understand correctly, Hyundai has finally taken financial and ethical responsibility for their poor design and/or poor quality by implementing a recall covering the failing brake system?

If yes, unfortunately for me the recall came too late!

Several months ago I took my Genesis to the Hyundai dealer in Humble Texas - I was told I would have to pay for fixing the failing brake system.

While attempting to get Hyundai to pay for fixing the failing brake system - I experienced multiple ZERO brake events - 4 times! Very scary!

Additionally low pedal became normal - for the Hyundai.
The brake problem started with the car under 60k.
By the time I gave up fighting the car had ~62k.

I was not going to give Hyundai ~2k to fix
Hyundai's poor design and/or poor quality!
(as I was told it would cost to repair)

Scary thought - how many 09 Genesis' were sold/on the road today?

Was the problem fixed in 2010, 2011, 2012,.... model years?

Is the Hyundai poor design and/or poor quality
brake problem limited to the 09 Genesis?

I did not want to continue risking the lives of my
family by driving a Hyundai that at anytime
could have ZERO braking ability.

Fortunately I don't have to risk my life any longer in a Hyundai.

Out!

Hyundai has not assumed any responsibility so far, unless the brakes have failed and the problem can be replicated by a dealer. They have agreed to replace the brake fluid with DOT-4 fluid, which is supposed to make it less likely the HECU brake controller values will corrode and the brakes fail.

If you experienced any brake problems, please file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), even if you no longer own the car:
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

If your brakes fail, Hyundai has agreed to fix them even if out of warranty. There is also a provision to get reimbursed by Hyundai if you had to fix them yourself (in or out of warranty).

Please read the following thread for more info:
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai...ad.php?t=12395

 

[Gunkk]

There is now a 2nd brake recall for certain vehicles, which now covers inspection of the ABS module


Campaign # Description Completed
114 BH HECU INSP & BRAKE FLUID REP(13-01-052
110 31C017R0-STOP LAMP SWITCH REPL.(#13-01-0 Y
TL6 20C022R0-2011-12 VI BRAKE FLUID REPL.(13 Y

 

[Mark_888]

There is now a 2nd brake recall for certain vehicles, which now covers inspection of the ABS module


Campaign # Description Completed
114 BH HECU INSP & BRAKE FLUID REP(13-01-052
110 31C017R0-STOP LAMP SWITCH REPL.(#13-01-0 Y
TL6 20C022R0-2011-12 VI BRAKE FLUID REPL.(13 Y

Correct. It if for vehicles that previously had the TSB done without inspection. I believe if covers Genesis sedan's made before June 1, 2010 (when the HECU supplier stopped using zinc plated valves that easily corrode).