Sporadic Low Brake Pedal Issue

[medicinemaan]

Ok guys Same issue . 2009 Gen 67K . Soft brakes.

The sequence is as follows

Rule out simple things. Fluids flush pads and rotors.leaking pipes etc
Next comes Master cylinder or HECU (ie ABS) .

Get car to dealership and get the diagnosis >ie 49 $

Usually they will do the above and move to master cylinder etc . HECU comes last .

Next they will run the warranty and chances are it will be voided for old farts like us ie 2009 60k etc .

Here when the fun starts.
The car should be done under warranty for many reasons . the biggest that the HECU got corroded becuase of DOT3 oil from 2009 -2013 . The company will usually differentiate between the two. ie brake fluid change vs HECU warranty. I think sane people will agree to repair under warranty .

Out of box options.
The cost is 2k plus. You can buy the part 58920 ABS module (cheapest is 300 used to 1200 from amaxon) and install it with a mechanic or dole out 2-3k for the repair. or sometimes the compromise is part from hyundai and labour from the dealership.

http://www.hyundaioemparts.com/auto...ine/electrical-cat/cruise-control-system-scat

The first numbers seems to be 58920 but the rest is all over the place ranging from 3M3A6 Etc etc . Wonder if you can fit the later models into the 2009 ?

Other issues to consider . rental cost and loaner cost might be given out by the company . Dont forget to get a case number from Hyundai and NHTSB

Good luck !!

 

[Mark_888]

the HECU got corroded becuase of DOT3 oil from 2009 -2013

That is not exactly the cause of the problem. Continental used coatings on the internal HECU valves that got corroded too easily and the valves failed under hard braking that engaged the anti-lock system. Continental started using new valve coatings at some point later (I think during 2013).

Hyundai did issue a recall to replace the DOT-3 brake fluid with DOT-4 on the affected 2009-2013 Genesis sedans, because the DOT-4 has more anti-corrosive properties, but the original valve coatings on the Continental HECU were the cause of the problem. Mostly likely, the majority of Genesis HECU's with the original Continental HECU with faulty valve coatings will eventually fail, even with DOT-4 fluid.

There have been many posts from members who had their brake fluid replaced with DOT-4 via the recall, and at some later date their HECU failed.

 

[BobbyC777]

Add me to the list ....

Gang -

We have experienced the low pedal brake problem a couple of times on our 2011 Genesis with 40K miles. I have filed a report with the NHTSA. I have spoken with Hyundai Customer Service and been to the dealer.

The Service Manager (SM) told me to bring the car in and they would check for codes associated with the HECU if I scheduled an appointment. I didn't challenge him on this but I have never seen anything about running diagnostics on the HECU on this forum. My contact at Hyundai CS seems very knowledgeable about this problem so he should be able to tell me if such a diagnostic really exists. (He gets back in a couple of days.)

I am anticipating the dealer telling me that they found no codes and they can't duplicate the problem. I don't want to duplicate this by rear ending someone!

I have the dealer Extended Warranty. The SM told me that Hyundai will force that to be used. So now I can see another party getting involved and not being able to duplicate the problem.

One question I have is why did only some Genesis models get the recalls? Our 2011 was not one of them even though some cars from 2009 - 2012 were recalled. Can they really track which cars got which HECUs and DOT3 vs. DOT4?

Even though my car was not part of the recall I would appear to have the symptoms.

I'll let you know how this turns out (assuming I live long enough).

Suggestions welcome!

Bob

 

[Mark_888]

Re: Add me to the list ....

Gang -

We have experienced the low pedal brake problem a couple of times on our 2011 Genesis with 40K miles. I have filed a report with the NHTSA. I have spoken with Hyundai Customer Service and been to the dealer.

The Service Manager (SM) told me to bring the car in and they would check for codes associated with the HECU if I scheduled an appointment. I didn't challenge him on this but I have never seen anything about running diagnostics on the HECU on this forum. My contact at Hyundai CS seems very knowledgeable about this problem so he should be able to tell me if such a diagnostic really exists. (He gets back in a couple of days.)

I am anticipating the dealer telling me that they found no codes and they can't duplicate the problem. I don't want to duplicate this by rear ending someone!

I have the dealer Extended Warranty. The SM told me that Hyundai will force that to be used. So now I can see another party getting involved and not being able to duplicate the problem.

One question I have is why did only some Genesis models get the recalls? Our 2011 was not one of them even though some cars from 2009 - 2012 were recalled. Can they really track which cars got which HECUs and DOT3 vs. DOT4?

Even though my car was not part of the recall I would appear to have the symptoms.

I'll let you know how this turns out (assuming I live long enough).

Suggestions welcome!

Bob

There initially was a mandatory "service campaign" (not a recall) to replace the DOT-3 fluid with DOT-4 on all Genesis sedan's produced April 30, 2008 to March 28, 2012. The build date is on a sticker in your driver side door jamb. A mandatory service campaign is not a recall, but is required to be performed on any car in dealer inventory, or on a car that is in the dealer shop for any purpose. Owners are not notified of a mandatory service campaign.

Later Hyundai was forced by the NHTSA to make it an official "recall," and was required to notify every affected customer. In addition to changing the brake fluid from DOT-3 to DOT-4 (if not previously done), the had to visually inspect the HECU for leaks (which was probably useless, since the failures were internal).

If you moved, or purchased the car used, they many not have had your correct address. The fact that the dealer has your address is irrelevant, since the recall comes from Hyundai Motor America.

You can check open recalls here with your VIN:
https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/

Or you can join www.myhyundai.com and also check for open recalls on your car.

Note that changing the brake fluid from DOT-3 to DOT-4 does not fix the problem. The original problem was a defective HECU made by Continental that had valve platting that corroded too easily. At some point during the 2012 model year Hyundai used the newer Continental HECU's without the valve platting problems.

DOT-4 used on the original defective HECU's will slow down corrosion and postpone eventual failure of the valves, but will not completely prevent the problem from happening. Several people on this forum who had their fluid changed to DOT-4 eventually had the HECU failure occur.

 

[BobbyC777]

Re: Add me to the list ....

Later Hyundai was forced by the NHTSA to make it an official "recall," and was required to notify every affected customer. In addition to changing the brake fluid from DOT-3 to DOT-4 (if not previously done), the had to visually inspect the HECU for leaks (which was probably useless, since the failures were internal).

If you moved, or purchased the car used, they many not have had your correct address. The fact that the dealer has your address is irrelevant, since the recall comes from Hyundai Motor America.

You can check open recalls here with your VIN:
https://vinrcl.safercar.gov/vin/

Thanks, Mark_888.

I am still waiting to hear back from Hyundai CS. My car was built JUL/03/10. There is no recall for my VIN. It seems strange that some cars AFTER my build date were recalled.

Like I said earlier the dealer wants me to bring the car in so he can check for codes. I have strong doubts that anything will show up. I have not read anything on this forum about diagnostics for this problem.

 

[Mark_888]

Re: Add me to the list ....

Thanks, Mark_888.

I am still waiting to hear back from Hyundai CS. My car was built JUL/03/10. There is no recall for my VIN. It seems strange that some cars AFTER my build date were recalled.

Like I said earlier the dealer wants me to bring the car in so he can check for codes. I have strong doubts that anything will show up. I have not read anything on this forum about diagnostics for this problem.

Most of the websites I have looked at only show open recalls for a VIN, not completed recalls.

But as I mentioned, even if Hyundai replaced the DOT-3 fluid with DOT-4, that does not fix the inherent problem with the internal HECU valves on Genesis sedans built from April 30, 2008 to March 28, 2012. It only slows down the valve corrosion and eventual brake failure. There have been quite a few forum members who had the recall performed (to switch to DOT-4 fluid) who later experienced HECU failure.

 

[jmac]

i posted last month about me 2012 break failure. Thank goodness for Carmax. They sent my 5.0 to Hyundai dealer. BTW the control wheel, mouse? has had ongoing issues of not reacting to commands. Hyundai struggles with experiencing the mouse problem that dealt me out nearly every day.. Back to breaks. The tech-genius' diagnosed it to be the booster. I disagreed vehemently. Oh SNAP.. 6 weeks later the new booster made no difference. Now they think its the ABS controller... Not sure if they can con troll the problem. Maybe next week.. BTW I've gathered the Dyno Max VT mufflers, x-pipe & drag muffers ready to install soon..I hope.

 

[bshinholster]

The car brake pedal was constantly going to the floor. I drive 10 miles each way to work, so this happened on a 4 lane highway. Constant, start and stop actions. After working for 9 hrs, the problem would disappear on the way home. Ask the service person to have the brakes checked twice during an appointment for an oil change. Results nothing was found. This last time a test resulted in the master cylinder was found to be leaking and later the ABS control unit had a stuck value. The dealership had no loaner cars or couldn't or wouldn't find a car for me to drive. So I had to drive the car for 5 days till the parts was deliver to the dealership. The Extended warranty company would only pay for one day car rental. The dealership had no chose but to find a car for me to drive. Went to pick up the car today 02/07/2017 and the brake pedal is still doing the same thing but worst. Hopefully the car will be ready tomorrow. During a conversation with a different service person found that the previous service person never put anything in the computer for the brakes to be checked. This will be my last time at this dealer ship. I guess they have never seen a woman, who knew any thing about a car. It will be there last.

 

[BobbyC777]

I had the HECU replaced on our 2011 Genesis about 6 weeks ago. It's been fine since then. Hyundai treated me well which will go a long way in keeping me around for future purchases.

Obviously brake issues are not something to fool around with. My personal opinion is that since there have been so many documented problems with the HECU (ABS) that Hyundai should not quibble about making this right for everyone. Like I said, they did with me.

Bob

 

[Joe29365]

Add me to the list...
2011 Genesis 4.6 2nd Owner. Have had the car since it had 24k and now has 82k. Happened to me 3 times over last two months and today was the worst. Have an apppt with Dennis Hyundai here in Columbus tomorrow at 3:00. Will have TSB 114 in hand when I go and have told the service tech what the issue is. Let’s see if they push back. They have been good to me in the past. I had a slow oil leak that was dripping out by the bell housing shortly after I bought it. After two tries they found bad seal up high on the back of the engine ( not rear main). Had to pull the engine to fix it and cost me $0. Keeping my fingers crossed this time...

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[emdoller]

I had this issue with my 2009 sedan and Hyundai fixed it by installing a new HECU.

My son has a 2010 Genesis coupe and seems to be having the same issue. Dealers say they can’t find anything.

Do the coupes have this issue?

Thanks,
Ed

 

[G-848310]

I had this issue with my 2009 sedan and Hyundai fixed it by installing a new HECU.

My son has a 2010 Genesis coupe and seems to be having the same issue. Dealers say they can’t find anything.

Do the coupes have this issue?

Thanks,
Ed

My buddys 2.0 2013 is having the same issue. My 2015 3.8 doesn't have the problem yet. He can push his almost to the floor before it reacts.

 

[emdoller]

My buddys 2.0 2013 is having the same issue. My 2015 3.8 doesn't have the problem yet. He can push his almost to the floor before it reacts.

After having his car for 1 week, they said it’s his HECU. The sad thing is he had to take them for a test drive to show them that the brake peddle would go to the floor as they couldn’t reproduce it.

They told him $3k. That’s what they told me last year when my ‘09 sedan had the issue. He told them that they covered mine and the guy he’s dealing with said someone must have called HQ and asked for a One time dispensation. That is what they did after I went bonkers. He then told my son that he didn’t think he’d be able to get one on his but he’d try.

I hope they cover his. I’d hate to have them deal with his mother if they don’t

Ed

 

[EdP]

After having his car for 1 week, they said it’s his HECU. The sad thing is he had to take them for a test drive to show them that the brake peddle would go to the floor as they couldn’t reproduce it.

They told him $3k. That’s what they told me last year when my ‘09 sedan had the issue. He told them that they covered mine and the guy he’s dealing with said someone must have called HQ and asked for a One time dispensation. That is what they did after I went bonkers. He then told my son that he didn’t think he’d be able to get one on his but he’d try.

I hope they cover his. I’d hate to have them deal with his mother if they don’t

Ed

I'd be looking at trading it if not covered. Hefty repair cost!

 

[emdoller]

I'd be looking at trading it if not covered. Hefty repair cost!

That’s exactly the path I was going down with my ‘09 sedan. Fortunately they fixed it as it only has 75k miles.

I’ll keep everyone posted.

Ed

 

[pmckechnie]

I have not read all the post in this thread but all I have read say the HECU is the problem. In my 28 years of working on cars I found 99% of the time the problem was the master cylinder.
The symptoms would be the peddle being normal most of the time but on occasion it would slowly go down to the floor. If you released the brake and apply it again all would be fine.
I am not saying it can't be the HECU. I just can't believe so many HECU's are going bad.
We did find out on our own cars (not customers cars) that if you flushed the brake system the problem will go away for a while.
Just a short example. We live in NC and made a trip to CA in our 1984 Mercedes ( doesn't have a HECU). Somewhere out west I noticed the brake peddle fade away a few times. I went to an auto parts store and bought some brake fluid. I over filled the master cyl with the fluid and the problem went a way after a few stops. That was about 6 years ago and all has been fine sense. And, yes we still have the MB and it is still part of our family. It is semi-retired but still runs and stops great at 35 years old.

 

[emdoller]

I have not read all the post in this thread but all I have read say the HECU is the problem. In my 28 years of working on cars I found 99% of the time the problem was the master cylinder.
The symptoms would be the peddle being normal most of the time but on occasion it would slowly go down to the floor. If you released the brake and apply it again all would be fine.
I am not saying it can't be the HECU. I just can't believe so many HECU's are going bad.
We did find out on our own cars (not customers cars) that if you flushed the brake system the problem will go away for a while.
Just a short example. We live in NC and made a trip to CA in our 1984 Mercedes ( doesn't have a HECU). Somewhere out west I noticed the brake peddle fade away a few times. I went to an auto parts store and bought some brake fluid. I over filled the master cyl with the fluid and the problem went a way after a few stops. That was about 6 years ago and all has been fine sense. And, yes we still have the MB and it is still part of our family. It is semi-retired but still runs and stops great at 35 years old.

The problem is there is a known issue with the HECU supplier on Genesis cars built in the first few years. Apparently they are prone to corrosion. This is why it takes time for the problem to rear it’s ugly head. I guess it wouldn’t be too hard to argue that after 9yrs it shouldn’t be covered but seeing that there are so many that have failed, it’s a critical part, I believe they should cover it.

Ed

 

[emdoller]

The problem is there is a known issue with the HECU supplier on Genesis cars built in the first few years. Apparently they are prone to corrosion. This is why it takes time for the problem to rear it’s ugly head. I guess it wouldn’t be too hard to argue that after 9yrs it shouldn’t be covered but seeing that there are so many that have failed, it’s a critical part, I believe they should cover it.

Ed

They agreed to fix it at no charge! Awesome

Ed

 

[rickkapur]

They agreed to fix it at no charge! Awesome

Ed

Had the same issue occur on my 2009 4.6 sedan. We have had it for 2 plus years...was about 14 K miles when we got it, and now at 30.7K. Sporadic brake issue started a month ago, and eventually it became dangerous to drive. Local mechanic diagnosed as HECU and said that he does not have the equipment to do it, and program it, and that expect to pay dealer 2-3 k for this. Researched this issue...this thread was super helpful in learning about this and options. Opened a case with NHTSA, and one with Hyundai corporate. Had it towed to a local dealer service center. Hyundai looked at the history and said that they did brake fluid exchange and upgrade in 2013 already with the original owner, and rejected the claim to pay for the fix. In response, i made an exception request via the dealer service person, citing that i have 3 hyundai cars and have been a loyal customer for years, and would really appreciate their support to do the right thing, as the original part had deficiency. Took them a week to get approval...thank you Hyundai! Got the car back today and it works as it should.
Again, this forum and particularly this thread was awesome! Thank you

 

[MrBrady]

I did have to take it to the dealer to have the ABS Module reprogrammed to match the VIN of my Genesis. That cost me $100.

Does anyone have more info about this. First time I've heard of an ABS module needing to be reprogrammed to match the VIN.