Suspension Issue - A new take

[Seattle Genesis]

I was under my Genesis rear wheel suspension and the springs on my car do NOT match the color code noted on the service manual. I will take pictures and post. Wonder if we are being subjected to manufacturing quality control slipups ?

I am definately convinced that the cars do ride differently. So if you drive a demo and then expect that the one you get delivered is going to ride the same ( A VERY RESONABLE EXPECTATION) you are mistaken. You go in drive a model with the engine trannny you want and it drives OK, and then wait for them to get the color you want, you should expect that they are all built the same and not have to be a quality inspector, where would it stop? are you expected to test every item on the car?

The service departments would not know what ride quality varations were even when they are experiencing it. I can't even get them to return a call. I may well be trading if I can't get the 2010 springs etc., when the 2010 comes out. They so far don't show a change in spring identification color dot or for the dampers, but I suspect that the manual is not yet updaed. Wonder if that is on purpose?

Don,
You bring up a good point and one that never occurred to me. Maybe first year model runs are like this. Some are different than others so when the next year models come out the manufacturer will have a good tested first year. You and me and others are all lab rats for their experiment.
Just a thought.
Seattle Genesis

 

[GripperDon]

That will be OK with me, IF THAY GIVE ME SOME CHEEZE! ($) ( Fix my Car )

 

[wahoo]

I remember when the 09 Genesis was first introduced, some of the articles mentioned that the rear seats could not fold down because they placed a solid panel behind the seats to reduce frame flex and improve the ability to pass the crash safety process. I wonder if this may be contributing to the harsh and bumpy ride?

 

[Mark_888]

I remember when the 09 Genesis was first introduced, some of the articles mentioned that the rear seats could not fold down because they placed a solid panel behind the seats to reduce frame flex and improve the ability to pass the crash safety process. I wonder if this may be contributing to the harsh and bumpy ride?

It is true that Genesis body has been made very stiff by design (12-14% more torsional rigidity than a BMW 5 Series, Mercedes E-Class or a Lexus LS), but this is not the direct cause of the Genesis suspension problems. This highly desirable stiffness was accomplished in part by the use of advanced technology bonding materials, in addition to structural a no-compromise design as you noted. The problem is the suspension, not the stiffness of the frame/body. You would not want added flexibility in the frame/body to provide a good suspension for a vehicle.

The suspension on the Korean version of the Genesis sedan has an adjustable air suspension that certainly is not too harsh. HMA decided that the Korean suspension was too soft for American tastes (or more accurately, for the preferences of the American automotive press) and they replaced the air suspension with a spring/shock setup that is noticeably stiffer. HMA has since realized that the suspension on the American version "has room for improvement" so they have made changes to the 2010 model to address the situation (new spring/shock rates, and new bushings).

The 2010 Genesis will still have a firm ride, but hopefully they have solved the problems noted by many on the 2009 model. John Krafcik, Acting President and Chief Executive Officer of Hyundai Motor America, personally tested the suspension changes earlier this year and said that he is satisfied with the suspension tuning for the 2010 Genesis sedan.

 

[Mark_888]

The service departments would not know what ride quality varations were even when they are experiencing it. I can't even get them to return a call. I may well be trading if I can't get the 2010 springs etc., when the 2010 comes out. They so far don't show a change in spring identification color dot or for the dampers, but I suspect that the manual is not yet updaed. Wonder if that is on purpose?

Someone else mentioned on this forum that the 2010 part numbers for the suspension have not changed. How does anyone know that? I can't believe that the Hyundai dealers have the parts list for the 2010 model yet.

About 5 months ago I went to a Rick Case dealership (not where I purchased my Genesis) to get some oil filters. The guy looks up some stuff on the computer and then comes back with a traditional metal oil filter. I tell him, No, it is a cartridge filter. Then after about 10 minutes of searching he comes back with a cartridge and I get two of them. When I change the oil, I realize that the filter he gave me is the wrong part number (not even close to right size).

Others in this forum have reported similar problems with getting the correct oil filter for the Genesis. From what I can tell, Hyundai does not provide their dealers with the best parts computer systems.

But it is also possible that the part numbers are the same, they are just slightly different parts for the 2010 model (different spring/shock rates). I don't know if they use a new part number if they make a minor change to a part from one year to the next if the parts are interchangeable (from what I understand the 2010 suspension changes will be interchangeable with 2009 cars).

 

[GripperDon]

If there are no changes in part number, how would you order the new ones? I am not arguing here that they are or are not different. The service manual gives a color dot designation. I am just trying to find out.

FWIW The service manual say to do the following for Poor ride quality:


Improper front wheel alignment
Repair

Damaged shock absorber
Repair or Replace

Varied or damaged stabilizer
Replace

Varied or damaged coil spring
Replace

Worn lower arm bushing
Replace

VARIED, MEANS WRONG PART!!!!

 

[Mark_888]

If there are no changes in part number, how would you order the new ones? I am not arguing here that they are or are not different. The service manual gives a color dot designation. I am just trying to find out.

FWIW The service manual say to do the following for Poor ride quality:


Improper front wheel alignment
Repair

Damaged shock absorber
Repair or Replace

Varied or damaged stabilizer
Replace

Varied or damaged coil spring
Replace

Worn lower arm bushing
Replace

VARIED, MEANS WRONG PART!!!!

Are you looking at the 2009 or 2010 Service Manual?

 

[GripperDon]

Unfortunately looking at both and they say the same thing and also give the spring options as two and both are the same dimensions and color codes.

 

[Mark_888]

Unfortunately looking at both and they say the same thing and also give the spring options as two and both are the same dimensions and color codes.

Where did you get a 2010 Genesis Sedan Service Manual? See if you can find a part for some of the new features like the adaptive cruise control or electronic emergency brake to prove it is really a 2010 manual.

But it doesn't really matter anyway. Hyundai is changing the spring/shock rates and some bushings for 2010 Genesis Sedan. That is the definitive word from HMA. The differences are not major, and if the parts were side-by-side, you may not even be able to tell the difference from the 2009 versions just by looking at them. The dimensions of these parts do not need to be changed to change their damping characteristics (spring/shock rates, etc).

 

[genesis 45]

Llt, thx for answering my question reference the serenity tires

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[genesis 45]

Some of you may want to check out the hyundai usa web page and look at the comments in the genesis owners comments....some pretty un-happy people there as well......

 

[LLT]

Well, the wife is strongly opposed to trading it for an LS460 as she wants to forge ahead with a vacation home on the coast, so it looks like I'll still be plugging away at the suspension on this thing.

By the way -- assuming there's no structural changes and you don't have to swap out the knuckle assemblies (I don't see why you would) I've calculated it will cost about $800 in parts to change over springs/struts/shocks all the way around. Hopefully that would resolve ride complaints as swapping out the bushings adds quite a bit of cost (and I've already done a good number of them.) You also have to add labor in if you're not planning on doing it yourself. I'm already more intimately familiar with tearing down the suspension on this car than I'd like, so it'll be a snap to complete.

I've yet to hear of anyone who has had Hyundai actually admit there's something wrong with the '09's, so I'm reasonably confident they would tell you to pound sand if you asked them to retrofit the changes and I've been told the changes are to "change characteristics, not fix issues" -- in other words, they're not touching it.

 

[Mark_888]

Well, the wife is strongly opposed to trading it for an LS460 as she wants to forge ahead with a vacation home on the coast, so it looks like I'll still be plugging away at the suspension on this thing.

By the way -- assuming there's no structural changes and you don't have to swap out the knuckle assemblies (I don't see why you would) I've calculated it will cost about $800 in parts to change over springs/struts/shocks all the way around. Hopefully that would resolve ride complaints as swapping out the bushings adds quite a bit of cost (and I've already done a good number of them.) You also have to add labor in if you're not planning on doing it yourself. I'm already more intimately familiar with tearing down the suspension on this car than I'd like, so it'll be a snap to complete.

I've yet to hear of anyone who has had Hyundai actually admit there's something wrong with the '09's, so I'm reasonably confident they would tell you to pound sand if you asked them to retrofit the changes and I've been told the changes are to "change characteristics, not fix issues" -- in other words, they're not touching it.

Are springs as easy to replace as shocks? I hope so.

Regarding your last comment about "admission" by Hyundai. I have heard HMA say that they are always looking to make improvements and have done so with the 2010 Genesis Sedan suspension. That admission does not rise to level of admitting that the current suspension is defective and needs to be replaced under warranty since it is pretty much performing as designed (even if it is performing crappy on certain roads).

It would be nice if Hyundai could meet us at least half-way and offer a discounted upgrade to the 2010 suspension for 2009 owners (obviously I would prefer they swap it out at no charge to me). But none of this is going to happen until all the 2009 units have been sold.

 

[LLT]

Actually, the multi-point suspension isn't too difficult to work on. You'll just need a strut spring compressor and a series of metric wrenches and sockets (ranging from 17mm to 24mm if memory serves.) You'll need a couple of jackstands as it makes things easier to support the knuckle assembly when you're disconnecting the upper control arms. I'd be happy to help anyone through it.

I agree with you, Mark - I don't expect HMA to admit anything with 09's still on the lots. I suppose I would feel better with the situation if they wouldn't downplay the issue as if I'm crazy (well, I am... but that's beside the point. )

 

[Mark_888]

Actually, the multi-point suspension isn't too difficult to work on. You'll just need a strut spring compressor and a series of metric wrenches and sockets (ranging from 17mm to 24mm if memory serves.) You'll need a couple of jackstands as it makes things easier to support the knuckle assembly when you're disconnecting the upper control arms. I'd be happy to help anyone through it.

I agree with you, Mark - I don't expect HMA to admit anything with 09's still on the lots. I suppose I would feel better with the situation if they wouldn't downplay the issue as if I'm crazy (well, I am... but that's beside the point. )

Thanks for the advice, but there is no way I will be making those kind of changes myself. Oil changes are about as far as I go these days.

 

[GripperDon]

09 and 10 service manuals here: http://hmaservice.com/ go to the specifications on the suspension section and read that the springs front and rear have the same two choices for both years.

 

[GripperDon]

Some of you may want to check out the hyundai usa web page and look at the comments in the genesis owners comments....some pretty un-happy people there as well......

I just did. WOW thought we were upset, they are livid.

 

[Mark_888]

09 and 10 service manuals here: http://hmaservice.com/ go to the specifications on the suspension section and read that the springs front and rear have the same two choices for both years.

That makes no sense that there are two choices unless they are for different markets (US vs Korea, etc). I don't think you can tell anything by that shop on-line manual if they made any changes. HMA said that spring/shock rates are different for 2010, but I would not at all be surprised if the dimensions are the same for the revised parts.

 

[GripperDon]

Please tell me why you would doubt the Hyundai Service site publication, it is a publication of HMA

I could believe that there may be 2 choices depending on a V8 or V6 or the initial spring designed into the system and the stiffer springs seleced by Mr. Collins, later.

To change the rate would require a different: free length, or number of active coils or coil diameter or coil wire cross section diameter or material. The easiest thing to change would be free length.

If the loaded length is to remain the same so as to keep the car height the same but you want a lower rate from that point on you need to have the slope of the deflection vs load of the two springs cross at that same length. If one of the cars weighs more then a softer rate spring will have to initially (un-loaded) be longer so it has the same length at the car load so it is the same elevation above the road.

Imagine a brick being the spring it has no deflection vs load so it is the shortest and it's un-loaded length is it's loaded length. The softer the spring the longer the initial length to get to the same loaded length for the static ride height. Then from that point on it deflects more per pound.

The two spring in the rear show the (Skyblue-Pink) spring to be 343.1mm free height and the (Skyblue-Skyblue) to be 341.6 mm


The front are shown to be 351.8 and 327.3 respectively.

 

[Mark_888]

Maybe they are different for V6 and V8, but the specs I saw where when I selected the V6 suspension and it did list two different sizes as you noted. The 2010 model will be available soon, so I think we ought to just wait until then to find out what changes were made and if they are available to be put on the 2009. I am assuming that HMA will be more forthcoming about the changes once the 2009's are sold.