Suspension Issue - A new take

[dataguy]

Only if the standard suspension was significantly softer.

I think that would be the implication. It could be a "luxury suspension" package instead, but if the default suspension was softer, a sport package could add more anti-roll, paddle shifters, better seat bolsters, and so on.

 

[GripperDon]

Talked to the Hyundai Genesis Task force folks again, Still hinting to me that new ASD will be on the 2010.

Meanwhile The Bridgestones 235 R55 - 17 will be on as soon as the chrome wheels get here.

So I thought I would run some test. I have a AC colled garage so I set the temp to 72 and let her soak overnight and out for a drive. Later at the daytime temp here was 109F I let her soak for more hours and took another drive.

Both times tire pressure was 32psi Argon filled tires. The RESULT:
Shocking change in behaviour over manhole covers, tar stpis in concrete pavement and small changes in roadway level. Cool good hot harsh.

According to the color dots on my rear shocks I have the "Long" shocks (just for info) Check you srvice manual.

Just another nickles worth of info
(PS read for content not typos or spelling.)

 

[jwaters943]

Argon filled? Do you mean Nitrogen?

Multiple typos aside, your posts are a bit hard to follow. Is English your 2nd language? Just wondering.

 

[genesis 45]

Hi, im brand new to posting on this site, but have been following it for months..I have 7500 miles on my 4.6..I have complained to hyundai about the rough ride as well...i was told the 2010 genesis sedan will have a "Re-tuned" suspension...It will not be a redesign, and it will not be a soft riding sedan.......

 

[GripperDon]

Keep trying to read the posts I am sure you will get to the answers and the struggle for you will be worth the effort. My language was good enought to give speeches to the board of Directors Ford Motor Company and the presenting of ideas capable enough to be granted in excess of 100 patents. Do some research pn me and find out just how good my conveying of ideas is.

I type this stuff to convey ideas which I evidently did. But since I am almost 4.5 decades older than you I understand

NO ARGON is correct. I do Air Bag research and invented the Direct Thermal Inflator, several patents including the use of ARGON a trully inert gas with better thermal properties than Nitrogen.

 

[jwaters943]

So then you're just too lazy to proof-read.

Seriously though, no need to explain/prove yourself to me. I was just wondering. I hope I didn't come off as too much of an as*.

Regarding Argon, is this the latest thing for tire inflation? I haven't heard of any places in my area offering this, I'll have to look into it. I wonder if it has any real, appreciable benefits.

 

[scottdk]

Keep trying to read the posts I am sure you will get to the answers and the struggle for you will be worth the effort. My language was good enought to give speeches to the board of Directors Ford Motor Company and the presenting of ideas capable enough to be granted in excess of 100 patents. Do some research pn me and find out just how good my conveying of ideas is.

I type this stuff to convey ideas which I evidently did. But since I am almost 4.5 decades older than you I understand

NO ARGON is correct. I do Air Bag research and invented the Direct Thermal Inflator, several patents including the use of ARGON a trully inert gas with better thermal properties than Nitrogen.

Which makes sense that Argon is in the Dual-paned windows on homes and buildings

 

[GripperDon]

So then you're just too lazy to proof-read.

Seriously though, no need to explain/prove yourself to me. I was just wondering. I hope I didn't come off as too much of an as*.

Regarding Argon, is this the latest thing for tire inflation? I haven't heard of any places in my area offering this, I'll have to look into it. I wonder if it has any real, appreciable benefits.

No it is not the latest thing in tire inflation, The industrial cost of the Argon in my tires is close to $5 retail it would be a $20-25 sell price.

Yes i do not proof and am sparse on capitalization and it is my right index finger that is paralyzed so I have problems typing and piano playing and finally I am usually thinking a few sentences ahead for content and the spelling etc. either is automatic or gets run over by the finger movements.

Argon advantages in compressed applications are related to the age old simple equation of pv= mrt and the van Der walls equations (too long to type ) and finally the Cp and Cv of the gas. In a tire application it has advantages of it's atomic size, moisture capacity and inability to combine with any other substance. Mostly because I have it and it better than Nitrogen besides air is 80% Nitrogen already so the 1/5 improvement is not all that great.

 

[TJPark01]

No it is not the latest thing in tire inflation, The industrial cost of the Argon in my tires is close to $5 retail it would be a $20-25 sell price.

Yes i do not proof and am sparse on capitalization and it is my right index finger that is paralyzed so I have problems typing and piano playing and finally I am usually thinking a few sentences ahead for content and the spelling etc. either is automatic or gets run over by the finger movements.

Argon advantages in compressed applications are related to the age old simple equation of pv= mrt and the van Der walls equations (too long to type ) and finally the Cp and Cv of the gas. In a tire application it has advantages of it's atomic size, moisture capacity and inability to combine with any other substance. Mostly because I have it and it better than Nitrogen besides air is 80% Nitrogen already so the 1/5 improvement is not all that great.

You have gone into this much care & detail to put air in your tires? Sounds like if you put as much attention into test driving the car, you wouldn't have bot it.

 

[jwaters943]

Sounds like if you put as much attention into test driving the car, you wouldn't have bot it.

LOL Ouch!


Don, I hope you can come to terms w/ the ride quality of your Genesis or at the very least get a good deal on trade-in. Honestly I don't think switching the tires and filling them with Argon will make you feel differently if you're that unhappy w/ the ride quality. If you do have to get rid of the Genesis, what car(s) are at the top of your list?

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[GripperDon]

Did plenty of test driving, definately knew what I was getting thats why I had the wheels changed to 17" prior to delivery. I am not at all unhappy with my Genesis in any way. I am simply trying to assist in it's achieving it's real potential or at least tailor it's ride to my tastes.

Argon has no effect on the ride nor did I expect it to do so. ( used on all my cars for at least 10 years) I am a retired Engineer with wide ranging interests and experiences. I have alredy changed much of the lighting and completed the circuit boards for a No-Nag that eliminates my having to hit the accept switch manually.

I like to "Play" with my cars,

Top of my list, a Bentley or an Aptera. I had about everything else. Before you ask, Best in the past, the VW Phaeton, closely followed by the 2000 "S" but I really did love my Muranos. Their is something great in most vehicles and always some entertaining challenges like the Ginny's rear end.

 

[rb cline]

Re this suspension/ride issue I have these observations or conclusions:

1.Given the overall attractiveness of the car and its other attributes the ride issue fades.

2.I doubt that fooling around with tire, wheel and air combinations will produce satisfactory results.

3. Uninformed tinkering with shocks and springs can have serious undesired consequences, not the least of which involve safety. There are few people doing business with the general public who know what they are doing in this area aside from selling bling stuff.

4.When you start to obsess about issues that are going to cost you big money it's time to step back, take a deep breath and rethink.

These observations are of course personal but based on many years of hot rodding, engine swapping, restoration, etc. I plan to get a 2010 Genesis and I do hope the folks at Hyundai can sort it out by then. Even if they don't, the car is a winner.

Keep on keeping on,

Dick


I stand by my observations, which incindentially, were not directed toward or about any specific individual posting.
I urge the average Genesis driver dude with ride/handeling issues to at least consider some of the quieter voices on the subject. It could save you money and heartburn.

Keep on keeping on,

Dick

 

[GripperDon]

1. True
2. False, they have already made significant improvements for me.
3. I am very informed, trained and experienced
4. As the former Technical Director for Air Cushions Safety for Allied Corp and a holder of 28 patents in the automotive safety field I have no worries as to my actions regarding this subject.
5. My interest in this area are intent, and part of a very full life filled with other intent interests and family. Also I have great lung capacity so I take deep breaths all the time.
6. My opinions are also personal what other kind can individuals have.

The Gripper

 

[CUMan]

Although I have not previously made any posts, I have followed the ride/suspension posts on the forum for several months.

I purchased my Genesis in late May. It is the 3.8 Premium Plus model. However, like GripperDon did, I had the dealership swap the 18" wheels for the 17" wheels. I was familiar with all the posts about the suspension and assumed that the "problem" would be lessened with the smaller wheels. As an aside, I failed to take into account the speedometer/odometer error that the wheel change would cause. If I had thought of it before taking delivery, I would have asked if this could be corrected by the dealership. However, I doubt that they can do this.

Several comments: I would suggest that anyone test-driving a Genesis make sure they find a concrete highway and drive on it. The bump caused by the expansion joints is the most noticeable (to me) flaw in the ride/suspension.

Shortly after getting the car, I lowered the air pressure to 30 lbs. I really cannot detect any difference this made in the ride.

When the tires wear down, I will likely consider switching to a 60 series tire from the 55 series that comes on the 17" wheels. This will partially correct the speedometer/odometer error and could possibly smooth out the ride.

Ride vs. handling will always be a trade-off. My previous car was a 1993 Lexus LS 400 that I had owned for 11 years. The ride was better than the Genesis on rough roads but not as good on smooth pavement. The handling of the Genesis is significantly better than the Lexus.

All things considered, I don't regret the purchase. I suspect that a calibration change in the suspension will be made on the 2010 models. I just hope it is a fine tune that does not take too much away from the handling. It would be great if this were made available to 2009 owners at no cost, but this might be too much to expect.

The power of the v-6 engine is great, and the gas mileage has been better than I expected. I have had two fill-ups with MPG's over 27.

 

[GripperDon]

Congrats on you initial post and haveing a Genesis!

I like mine also. The outer circumference of the 17inch rim with the 55 series tire as compared to the 18inch rim and the 50 series tire , which is the way the factory equips the car is a change of less than 1% so no need to worry about the spedo error.

I had also thought about a series 60 tire but have been having problems getting a speed rating higher than "S" and a few "T" this concerned me a wee bit however I am a city driver and even on the freeways around here the number of radar installations is so high that going over 72mph will cost you very dearly. So the lower rating is in reality not a problem. The taller side wall will certainly help the ride comfort but the steering response will suffer. I would love to "Try out" a set of series 60.

I really like my Jenny also for the price it is a fine car. While not a "S" class MB is is really good. Good for you on getting the 17 inches.

 

[CanukV6]

Some observations on this issue, which is obviously still a very HOT topic (are you listening Hyundai?).

My 3.8 Genesis now has more than 20,000 miles on it and the suspension has definitely softened up somewhat. Not enough to cure the oscillation problems on certain surfaces, but definitely better than it was. Since I have never thought the springs were an issue here - and they certainly wouldn't have changed much in 20k - I can only assume the change is down to some age change in the shocks and/or changes in the suspension rubber bushings.

Another thing I have noted is that the problem is definitely worse at lower temperatures during the winter months. Come spring and summer, the issue is less obvious. I run 17" wheels with winter tires (225/55/17) and the ride was better with these compared to the stock 235/50/18 that I ran for the first few months of winter, but changing back in the spring did not cause the ride to deteriorate as much as I expected.

As I have stated previously, 95% of the time the ride is just fine. It is firm but not uncomfortable, although transverse ridges are still an issue. It is only certain surfaces that cause the jarring oscillation that has been described by many owners. I guess if you live near such road surfaces and travel them every day, the problem is much more of an issue. For me, I love the car and it is one of the best vehicles I have ever owned. Much as I want to see a solution to this ride issue, there is no way I would dump my Genny because of it.

 

[GripperDon]

Great post! IMO

 

[CUMan]

GripperDon -

Just a brief followup on the postings re the 60 series tires.

I had already checked on speed rating and availability. Our local Sam's Club carries two tires in 225-60-R17 that are either H or V Rated. The H rated is a Goodyear, and the V is a Michelin. (Of course, Sam's would probably not install this size tire on a Genesis, since that is not the size that the factory installs. But somebody else would install them, no doubt.)

Tirerack carries 6-8 tires of that size with either H or V ratings. The brands include Kumho, Pirelli, Yokohama, Michelin, and Goodyear.

 

[GripperDon]

GripperDon -

Just a brief followup on the postings re the 60 series tires.

I had already checked on speed rating and availability. Our local Sam's Club carries two tires in 225-60-R17 that are either H or V Rated. The H rated is a Goodyear, and the V is a Michelin. (Of course, Sam's would probably not install this size tire on a Genesis, since that is not the size that the factory installs. But somebody else would install them, no doubt.)

Tirerack carries 6-8 tires of that size with either H or V ratings. The brands include Kumho, Pirelli, Yokohama, Michelin, and Goodyear.

Very interesting THANKS for the follow up, The michelin would be the one I am interested in. The 60 series is fitted on the genesis as a 215-60-17 so they may put it on. Check out the site hmaservice.com and sign up for the free service manuals, Go to tire specifications and there is lists the 60 series, the 55 series and the 50 series. The 60 and the 55 being shown on the 17inch J rim
I Appreciate you telling me og the V speed rated tire, very much. Grip

 

[Bear]

I changed to the Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season. My reason was safety. No change in the ride. Tires are not the answer. Wish I could put the Audi A6 suspension on the Genesis.