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Suspension Issue - A new take

I thought I read in an earlier thread, that has since been closed, that had accompanying video interviewing the main guy from HMA that personally oversees the re-tuning of the US Genesis once is comes off the ship. Anyone else have a recollection of that thread?

I'll poek a round and see if I can find it.
I am not sure which video you are talking about. There are two videos:

1. A Car and Driver video review, which features the current acting president of HMA, John Krafcik (in addition to Csaba Csere who was editor in chief of Car and Driver at the time).

2. A video with an engineer responsible for the suspension tuning of the Genesis for the North American version. He did the tuning of the suspension for the 2009 model (and presumably future models) at the Hyundai Design Center (or whatever it is called) in CA. The Genesis suspension for North America is different than for the Korean version, and the final specs of the springs, shocks, etc, came from the CA design center (the Korean version uses an air suspension). Those specs are incorporated into the Genesis models made for North America at the Korean assembly plant. He (or Hyundai) does not change, inspect, or tune every Genesis that comes off the boat (the suspension is already completely finished when it rolls off the assembly line in Korea).
 
I don't want to offend anyone, but there is a reasonable explanation why more V-6 owners complain. There are more of you. I don't have deep pockets, so I have to live with my V-8 purchase for a long time. If this manufacturing/engineering/quantity control problem is not corrected the only thing I can do is tell people the story that Hyundai stands behind their autos is fictitious. My V-8 was manufactured in August 2008, beside the terrible ride I have list of other intermittent problems. Please don’t anyone tell me to call Hyundai.
I would wait until the 2009 models are gone, and then start contacting Hyundai. That should only be another month or two. HMA does not want to admit to anything until the 2009's are all sold. If you back them into a corner right now, you will force them get defensive, and that would be very unfortunate for everyone involved.
 
I've not noted many V8 owners complaining of an issue and I didn't find one when I drove them.
There have been plenty of V8 complaints. One V8 owner sold his car back to his dealer a day or two after he bought it (took a long day trip right after purchase and decided the car was not for him) for a $9K loss and turned around and bought a new LS460.

Among V8 owners (especially on this forum) they have a tendency to be more performance car oriented and care a little less about about a comfortable ride. Obviously there are exceptions.
 
I am not sure which video you are talking about. There are two videos:


2. A video with an engineer responsible for the suspension tuning of the Genesis for the North American version. He did the tuning of the suspension for the 2009 model (and presumably future models) at the Hyundai Design Center (or whatever it is called) in CA. The Genesis suspension for North America is different than for the Korean version, and the final specs of the springs, shocks, etc, came from the CA design center (the Korean version uses an air suspension). Those specs are incorporated into the Genesis models made for North America at the Korean assembly plant. He (or Hyundai) does not change, inspect, or tune every Genesis that comes off the boat (the suspension is already completely finished when it rolls off the assembly line in Korea).


Yes, thanks Mark, thats the video I was referring to.
So I guess this means that each country sets its own design spec for their country for manufacture. I guess the HMC did a good job up here in Canada on our suspension. :D
 
Yes, thanks Mark, thats the video I was referring to.
So I guess this means that each country sets its own design spec for their country for manufacture. I guess the HMC did a good job up here in Canada on our suspension.
I would not say that each country has their own design specs, but there is a separate version of the Genesis for the US market. In addition to the air suspension, the Korean version has more luxury items and is priced accordingly. The Korean version is also sold in some other countries without modification.

I know the Canadian version is a little different from the US version (interior dash trim, running lights, LSD, etc), but not sure about the suspension.

If the Canadian suspension is different, it was probably spec'ed at the Hyundai design center in CA, although maybe approved by some Hyundai Canada executives.
 
I'd bet quite a few Loonies ($Canadian:)) that our "Canadian" Genesis suspension is identical to the rest of North America. My car certainly has the same ride issues, as I have posted before, and I know other Canadian owners have also written about their concerns as well.
 
I'd bet quite a few Loonies ($Canadian:)) that our "Canadian" Genesis suspension is identical to the rest of North America. My car certainly has the same ride issues, as I have posted before, and I know other Canadian owners have also written about their concerns as well.

If thats the case, and the Canadian version is the same as the US version then all I can say is that the issue may have more to do with a matter of perception rather than a matter of fact.

All it takes is one person to identify a problem, either perceived or factual, and it doesn't take long before that same issue becomes evident to others, who prior to finding out about an issue, did not experience the problem.

Anyway, I don't want to continue to beat this dead horse, but didn't everyone road test their vehicles before taking delivery?
By the sounds of it, the issue was evident upon taking delivery and didn't just crop up out of the blue at a later date. (flame suit on) :eek:
 
Anyway, I don't want to continue to beat this dead horse, but didn't everyone road test their vehicles before taking delivery?

Glad you have your flame suit on. Yes I drove 3 cars before i took delivery, None had any problem on the roads i was told were the test route. The car i took delivery one was NOT driven as it was on the showroom floor and "Could not be test driven as it was special, the only one of that color and full options. Also I paid full MSRP.

The dealership was a more than 40 mile trip. They hung me up till after closing at night before I could have the car AND since I had the 18 rims replaced with 17 inchers it was mine when I drove it and my state excludes car purchases from the 3 day recension rule.
 
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Thatts a bummer Don. It's really unfortunate that you couldn't test drive the actual car you bought before delivery. The car I test drove was not the one i took delivery of because it was only a Premium and I wanted a tech. I test drove the car I ordered from them before I signed any papers binding me to the vehicle.

Man I really hope they,Hyundai, correct all of your suspension issues ( i am referring to all of you that consider it sub-par). This is too nice of a car to give up on!

I think it is going got take 1 of 2 things to fix this;

1) the 2010 Genesis does get a re tuned suspension that will allow everyone to easily retro fit their 2009's, be it shocks, springs, bushings or what have you.

or
2) Someone in the aftermarket comes up with parts that improve the ride.
 
I test drove my v6 tech. Actually I drove a v8 also, but that 15 minute drive is nothing compared to an hour or a day of driving and really 'getting to know' the car. Im not here to bash Hyundai or anyone that does not believe me that I have a serious issue with the suspension. This forum is a great place to discuss these issues and I greatly appreciate it since I see others that are having the same issues as me. It's a good feeling that Im not alone in having suspension issues. I just hope Hyundai is listening here and will provide some kind of resolution. Im hoping for one, but I'm a realistic person too and very seriously doubt Hyundai will do anything on their own. Unless they are forced to do so....:(
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The suspension is kinda two faced in my mind.. It seems that when the road is smooth, this car is BUTTER smooth. But the second you hit a road seam, or repetitive bumps, what have you, it seems to behave like a whole other car. It is almost embarassing when my co-workers are with me in my car. I just assure them it is because it has a "sport" suspension.

I drove my Accord Coupe V6 6MT before I the guy came to buy it... It was just amazing how much the accord is firm, yet is able to *dampen*.

I know this has been beat to death - but just wanted to give my view. It just seems to have 2 personalities. When it gets rough, I am sitting in my car thinking, wow - this is a super nice car - and I can't believe the car just jostled around over a few minor bumps.

I did test drive my car...and actually thought it rode decent. I knew going into it to watch out for the suspension. Like said before, maybe the some aftermarket upgrades might be available later.

If I was a damper manufacturer - I would be working on a solution for the aftermarket.

Take care,

Bob
 
I agree Bob.. its like the car has two personalities, but expressed at the wrong times.

Some may think my experience is a perception problem and may be brought on by over stimulation by reading other peoples post on this forum. Ya know, "bird of a feather..." and "misery loves company". So Im going to take a long hiatus from this forum to see if my perceived issues disappear. Its like a science experiment for me.... :D

Chat later !!

Seattle Genesis
 
I found this interesting info on "smart shocks". After reading this, I think it is likely that the Sachs shocks on the Genesis are tuned wrong:
http://www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/asp/ccr/ccr20001101vv.asp#Monroe%20Reflex%20&%20Rancho%20RSX

Shock absorbers improve ride quality by cushioning suspension movement. Even on smooth roads, shocks stroke approximately 1,750 times per mile, which is why many OE absorbers won't last beyond 10,000-12,000 miles.

Traditionally, shocks are prioritized to deliver a ride biased toward one end of the ride-control spectrum: either comfort/softness or handling/stiffness. The shock's valving has the biggest impact on firmness. Standard shocks are commonly valved so that about 30% of their available damping goes to compression and 70% to rebound. This bias cushions bump impacts, then cushions the spring's rebound force while the tire maintains road contact.

Smart Valving | Back To Top
For years, motorcycle front forks have moved either faster or slower based upon road conditions. Early automotive adaptations of this philosophy were electronically controlled "active" suspension systems in Formula 1 cars and exotic sports cars such as the Lotus Esprit. A more mass-marketable mutation was driver-controlled adjustable valving, such as the Rancho RS9000 off-road shock (see Photo 2). A dial allows five different levels of firmness to be selected.

Recent technological advancements now allow automotive shocks to automatically alter their valving to match road conditions. The two prominent ways of accomplishing this are through position-sensitivity or impact/inertia-activation. The Monroe and Rancho divisions of Tenneco Automotive are pioneers in these areas, and the Edelbrock IAS shock is another popular example of an impact- or inertia-sensitive shock.

Monroe Sensa-Trac | Back To Top
The Sensa-Trac shock and strut are position-sensitive, using piston travel to change their valving. Under smooth conditions, tapered grooves in the cylinder allow the hydraulic fluid to flow freely for soft damping up to mid-stroke. When the piston travels beyond the tapered grooves, fluid is routed through the piston only, which stiffens the ride.

Monroe Reflex & Rancho RSX | Back To Top
Tenneco Automotive calls the adjustable valve system in its Monroe Reflex and Rancho RSX shocks Impact Sensor Technology. When a bump is encountered, the valve cushions the impact in 12 milliseconds by letting more fluid through. The harder the bump, the more fluid is allowed to pass, so the damping becomes progressively softer. The shock returns to its firm/control damping in 15 milliseconds. This is particularly advantageous in taller vehicles such as SUVs—the shocks are firm for flat cornering but soften to absorb road irregularities. In evasive maneuvers, the Reflex reduces body roll by as much as 12% compared to new OE shocks. In ABS braking, the Monroe Reflex reduces pitch rate up to 18%. The RSX has heavy-duty seals and includes shock boots to help withstand off-road abuse.

Edelbrock IAS | Back To Top
As with most self-adjusting shocks, Edelbrock designs each of its IAS (Inertia Active System) units for the specific application. Furthermore, a standard shock has two circuits (compression and rebound), whereas the IAS has a third "compliance" circuit. Edelbrock says that this circuit can sense the difference between side loads (pitch and roll during braking and cornering) and vertical forces (such as potholes) and adjust itself accordingly. For example, during cornering or nose-dive braking, the IAS switches to a higher damping force to keep the chassis stable. Over bumps or potholes, the damping force softens to allow the wheel to follow the surface irregularities without transmitting the jolts to the chassis. Furthermore, Edelbrock claims that the Inertia Active valving has a wider damping range than conventional shocks: stiffer on-road than non-adjusting shocks that are valved for "performance" and softer than those biased toward comfort.

Conclusion | Back To Top
Naturally, these "smart" shocks are more expensive than garden-variety replacements. However, they increase safety as well as comfort. Improved tire-to-road contact translates into better handling and shorter stopping distances.

Resources | Back To Top
Edelbrock, (800) 416-8628, www.edelbrock.com

Monroe/Rancho, (888) SAFER-RIDE, (888) 467-2624, www.monroe.com, www.gorancho.com

Toyota/Lexus, (800) GO-Toyota, www.toyota.com



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I would suggest waiting a few months until it becomes clear what the 2010 parts look like.

Mark_888 if we don't know how you feel by now, WAIT WAIT WAIT we will never know. AND if you don't KNOW BY NOW that I WILL NOT WAIT you never will. That's the way it is you and me, so telling me to wait is a waste of time, I am not going to, never have been that way and am not going to do so now. I'll probably have it sold before the 2010 come out, till it is I'll not wait to try and seek a solution........ those are periods. :)


Genesis 380 Thanks for the good tutorial. !!!
 
I wish this were a non-subjective issue... the longer this thing sits in my garage, the more irate I get. I'd love to, for the first time in my life, go at HMA with full legal forces. Their arrogance and incompetence frustrates me more by the day.

Unfortunately, the suspension is just terrible, not defective. That's difficult to combat against. I think we need to just speak with our pocketbooks and give our money to the competitors rather than "waiting" for a half-assed Hyundai solution.... or worse yet, "upgrade" to a 2010 (why any of us would do that is beyond me... HMA hasn't stood behind the 09, what makes us think they'll stand behind the 2010?) They're
clearly still an economy car maker that happened to churn out an otherwise nice vehicle. The service hasn't changed.

If you're going to trade or sell it - now is the time, IMO. Once the 10's come out, the value of the 09's will naturally drop even further. As more and more issues come to light and more get traded, the value will drop even further.

I'm trying to negotiate a trade right now. It won't be a pretty loss though.
 
GD, are you going to call Discount Auto Shockshocks today about the Ranchos? I would but I'm stuck at a client all day. I emailed them but didn't get a reply. I'm really hopeful that they have a solution.
 
GD, are you going to call Discount Auto Shockshocks today about the Ranchos? I would but I'm stuck at a client all day. I emailed them but didn't get a reply. I'm really hopeful that they have a solution.

YES I did first thing this morning. I explained the situation fully to the sales technician. He left the phone to converse with someone and returned to say that they had nothing that would work for the car.

I intend to call again and try someone else. I have been attempting to contact someone anyone at Scachs I did get a reply email and a phone number in California but so far no one has answered or returned my phone call voice mails.

I'll keep trying. I have called a number of placess, Koni, KYB, etc. They will fit a shock based upon the weight of the car, fron to rear distribution of weight and extended and colasped length and mounting info. I am trying to get that info from SACHs, so far no luck. It may be that I have to take the car to a local wheel alignment service place, have the shock removed, measurements made and then order a shoch and have it installed. What a shame the dealers are so lame.
 
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