Suspension - Test Drove 2009 and 2010 Genesis back to back

[PINGGOLF]

The main job of a moderator is to keep things on topic.

Its WAAAY more complicated than that. Trust me, I wish it were that easy.

 

[GripperDon]

Well I guess I'll have to say something about all this. No caps no colors no threats.

I absolutely love the car except it's ride. I am interested in discussing anything that will assist in finding ways to determine if someone has a "harsh ride" as I feel I do and ways to go about mitigating it.

I laud some specific parts of the car like the sound system and disparage some things like the high beams and am loath to stick my head in the sand and say, "I like things" that I don't believe, just because others will or will not like it.

I got "blasted" a while ago and replied with what I felt was a fair and factual reply. I do also feel the Hyundai has not done right to fix the problem for existing owners and only tried to assure themselves of continuing sales by fixing the new production. Kind of like if Toyota had of only fixed new products not the previously sold one. I personally feel that this is not a wise thing on Hyundai's part for either themselves or present owner of car owners that feel they have the problem.

Now I hope this posting is fair, not inflammatory and illustrates why I think it is correct to continue posting about the "Ride" and "Suspension" of the car and what is reported here or other places about it.

Peace to all. Gripper

 

[Mark_888]

No one complains about my posts because I always respect the views and opinions of others. I have always given Doug a warm greeting (I am sure he will chime in if he reads this) and inquire as to how his Milan is treating him. As you correctly pointed out, I do not own a Genesis (Lord knows I tried to, but as others here have posted, the pre-sales dealer experience was sub-par in my area). I do appreciate you pointing that Doug and I sit on opposite sides of the fence with regards to the Genesis suspension. Despite that, I enjoy seeing him here and always treat him with respect. I wish everyone could treat each other here, despite personal differences in opinion, the way Doug manage to. For heaven's sake...as good as it is, the Genesis is just a car after all. As for me, I am patiently awaiting Hyundai to improve its dealer network in my area so that I could feel comfortable buying one. For the record, the only reason I am not driving a Genesis is because of my experience. I do love the car.

I don't have a problem with you posting on this forum even though you don't own a Genesis. I don't think people should have a problem with Doug posting simply on the basis that he sold his Genesis.

Regarding why no one complains about your posts, I would respectfully disagree with the reason you gave in the first sentence above, and I would say it is because you are on the opposite side of Doug on this issue.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

Well I guess I'll have to say something about all this. No caps no colors no threats.

I absolutely love the car except it's ride. I am interested in discussing anything that will assist in finding ways to determine if someone has a "harsh ride" as I feel I do and ways to go about mitigating it.

I laud some specific parts of the car like the sound system and disparage some things like the high beams and am loath to stick my head in the sand and say, "I like things" that I don't believe, just because others will or will not like it.

I got "blasted" a while ago and replied with what I felt was a fair and factual reply. I do also feel the Hyundai has not done right to fix the problem for existing owners and only tried to assure themselves of continuing sales by fixing the new production. Kind of like if Toyota had of only fixed new products not the previously sold one. I personally feel that this is not a wise thing on Hyundai's part for either themselves or present owner of car owners that feel they have the problem.

Now I hope this posting is fair, not inflammatory and illustrates why I think it is correct to continue posting about the "Ride" and "Suspension" of the car and what is reported here or other places about it.

Peace to all. Gripper

I agree with you Don on all points. I too love my Genesis except for the ride which is 80% of the car IMO. The ride is so important to the car. Its not like changing the badges if you dont like them. Its a huge integral part of the car. I guess people, like me, who are very upset they spent $35 - $40k for a car they dont really like driving. It kinda hurts when you make that payment every month. It also hurts when people here dont accept or acknowledge we think there is a serious issue with the suspension. Im pretty sure we that hate the suspension use this forum to vent since Hyundai does not seem to think there is an issue.

I try to never slam anyone for what they post. They must be a reason why someone feels the way they do. I accept that. So please accept the way we feel about our issues.

Thanks,
Seattle Genesis

 

[Sayantsi]

I sincerely hope that people who have issues with the suspension characteristics of their cars come to a fruitful solution, and I enjoy reading the ongoing threads where people investigate ways to modify their cars to suit their personal needs, but I do not agree with people that feel that the suspension is fatal and needs remediation from Hyundai. If someone doesn't like the way their car rides, that is their prerogative, but saying that its a factory defect simply seems unreasonable to me.

Like the color paint you choose, its part of the package you bought with your $30-40k. If you end up not liking what you have, take the appropriate steps to find a solution, but don't blame Hyundai for selling red or blue cars. Life is too short to not be happy with what you have, especially when you have the capability to make yourself happy. Don't settle.

 

[GripperDon]

Dear Mr. Sayantsi.

I respect your right to have the point of view you do. Again respectively the color example is even fine with me as then I could choose one or another.

With the suspension we have no choice given to us like a sport or city suspension.

Finally I think that Hyundai did recognize that the suspension was flawed that is why they changed it. Fatal is related to the decision as to weather or not I would have bought the car if I was aware of its ride performance over less well surfaced roads. In my case, I would have not, so it would have been fatal to my decision to purchase.

I would be satisfied if Hyundai would let me pay for getting the change they have made, I think it would be fair if they paid for it but if they don't well then they don't. However not openly admitting that it to us is another thing in that it puts us in the very difficult position that the factory will not allow us to get the information to make the change on our own.

I hereby offer to sign a release for to Hyundai for any untoward results of the change. I only want to get the ride better for my body and am willing to pay for it, having to figure out and try and reverse engineer it, is IMO unnecessarily makeing the job difficult. Thank you for listening.

 

[TJPark01]

Dear Mr. Sayantsi.

I respect your right to have the point of view you do. Again respectively the color example is even fine with me as then I could choose one or another.

With the suspension we have no choice given to us like a sport or city suspension.

Finally I think that Hyundai did recognize that the suspension was flawed that is why they changed it. Fatal is related to the decision as to weather or not I would have bought the car if I was aware of its ride performance over less well surfaced roads. In my case, I would have not, so it would have been fatal to my decision to purchase.

I would be satisfied if Hyundai would let me pay for getting the change they have made, I think it would be fair if they paid for it but if they don't well then they don't. However not openly admitting that it to us is another thing in that it puts us in the very difficult position that the factory will not allow us to get the information to make the change on our own.

I hereby offer to sign a release for to Hyundai for any untoward results of the change. I only want to get the ride better for my body and am willing to pay for it, having to figure out and try and reverse engineer it, is IMO unnecessarily makeing the job difficult. Thank you for listening.

In lieu of spending unknown sums of time and money to reverse engineer the suspension, selling the car and buying another car that you can live with stress free seems easier. I know you love the car but hate the suspension, but the suspension is an integral part of the car. That is like being a home buyer and saying saying I love the house but hate the neighborhood, the two will be inexorably linked forever, you can't separate the two. So if you hate the suspension and the ride, then what you're saying is that you pretty much hate a large part of what makes up the car. There are so many choices out there, why not sell the car and buy one that you like?

 

[LLT]

I certainly agree with you, PING! Although I was a dissatisfied suspension junkie, I don't think there's a single issue that hasn't been rehashed on the site at least two dozen times.

For what it's worth, I no longer own a Genesis and don't consider my postings to be "trolling" in nature. Apart from the obvious, I did enjoy the car and gained some insight into the vehicle, so I try to be helpful in other parts of the forum. I try to stay out of the suspension topics - there's nothing to be said that hasn't been said 100 times over.

 

[TJPark01]

I certainly agree with you, PING! Although I was a dissatisfied suspension junkie, I don't think there's a single issue that hasn't been rehashed on the site at least two dozen times.

For what it's worth, I no longer own a Genesis and don't consider my postings to be "trolling" in nature. Apart from the obvious, I did enjoy the car and gained some insight into the vehicle, so I try to be helpful in other parts of the forum. I try to stay out of the suspension topics - there's nothing to be said that hasn't been said 100 times over.

SO you had a Genesis Sedan, didn't like the ride, sold it and bot something else? Don't you feel better now that you have something that you like?

 

[GripperDon]

why not sell the car and buy one that you like?


OK, would you just send me the $10,000 to cover the loss and I am on my way!

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[TJPark01]

why not sell the car and buy one that you like?


OK, would you just send me the $10,000 to cover the loss and I am on my way!

Yes I get that... but you're gonna spend how much to fix the suspension, with no guarantee that it's going to get better, not to mention the time it will take and the aggravation it will cause if it doesn't work.
I agree the suspension is rough at low speeds and I have no problem with people voicing their opinions about it at all. But it just seems like it would be easier to sell a 1 year old Genny and buy a one or two year old, Honda Accord, or Maxima, or C300, or Altima, Camry, ES350, and actually really enjoy the car and be satisfied and feel Zen when they drive, instead of feeling the way you guys do now.

 

[PINGGOLF]

For what it's worth, I no longer own a Genesis and don't consider my postings to be "trolling" in nature.

Great! Me neither!


Ok...with all that said...lets do 2010genesis a favor and get back on the topic that he started.

Thanks to all for your comments and let it be known that I have read through all of your replies and have taken them to heart.

Sometimes...I myself EXPLODE and wish I can take back some of the things I said...but unfortunately, I cant with this sticky situation. Im sure all of you understand that I have a job to do here. It will make some of you happy and others it will do nothing but tick you off even more. Am I sorry, no. But I do hope that things will be a little nicer here in the future with regards to suspension.

Ok...grouphug everybody!! HA!

 

[GripperDon]

Yes I get that... but you're gonna spend how much to fix the suspension, with no guarantee that it's going to get better, not to mention the time it will take and the aggravation it will cause if it doesn't work.
I agree the suspension is rough at low speeds and I have no problem with people voicing their opinions about it at all. But it just seems like it would be easier to sell a 1 year old Genny and buy a one or two year old, Honda Accord, or Maxima, or C300, or Altima, Camry, ES350, and actually really enjoy the car and be satisfied and feel Zen when they drive, instead of feeling the way you guys do now.

Well you are entitled to your opinion, which I have read before, but mine is mine and I would rather fix it than sell it. I take the problem as a challenge to be solved. I enjoy challenges and problems. I don't really like most of the cars that you mentioned extremely well anyway and I NEVER buy a used car. SO that's the way it is down here. Fixing and hopefully helping and posting and living. I am lucky to have a great family, life, wife, a wonderful climate and a garage filled with a big challenge (the Genesis) to keep me physically busy and mentally active, as the urge suits. So I enjoy the car plenty.

 

[Rey]

I have some thoughts on a solution to the ride quality. First, I don't hear many complaints about the front suspension. Assuming that to be o.k., then the problem is with the rear suspension. People are suggesting that it is both the springs and shocks which cause the harshness. It may be either springs or shocks and not both.
Let me compare my experiences with an '05 Cadillac CTS-V. This car had Sachs shocks which had a load-leveling feature so as to keep the HID headlights properly aimed with various seat loadings. The shocks were Sach's "Nivomat" series, which is not the series used on the Genesis. I found the Nivomat shocks to have huge compression dampening and very little rebound dampening. I changed the shocks to a non-load leveling model designed for the CTS; and my ride was vastly improved.
So, I wonder if our oem Sachs rear shocks have too much compression dampening? One way to find out if the shocks or the springs are the major part of the problem is to test your care without the rear shocks in place. Rear shock removal is very easy. It will drive like a car with very worn shocks, but you should quickly be able to determine if oem shocks are too stiff. Obviously, your test driving should be in zero traffic and on a deserted roadway; exercising extreme caution at all times.
Then, if you determine the shocks are the culprit, I think you will have to wait many months before Bilstein, Koni, etc. come out with aftermarket shocks. But there is another source for the enterprising and inventive: QA1 shocks. QA1 has a long history of making a wide variety of shocks for special applications. Check out their web site.. Talk to them. They will tell you what to measure and whether or not they have something that will do the job.
If you are wondering why I do not do this myself, the simple reason is that I find the suspension quite satisfactory (build date 5/29/09). But my car is still new.

 

[PINGGOLF]

I have some thoughts on a solution to the ride quality. First, I don't hear many complaints about the front suspension. Assuming that to be o.k., then the problem is with the rear suspension. People are suggesting that it is both the springs and shocks which cause the harshness. It may be either springs or shocks and not both.
Let me compare my experiences with an '05 Cadillac CTS-V. This car had Sachs shocks which had a load-leveling feature so as to keep the HID headlights properly aimed with various seat loadings. The shocks were Sach's "Nivomat" series, which is not the series used on the Genesis. I found the Nivomat shocks to have huge compression dampening and very little rebound dampening. I changed the shocks to a non-load leveling model designed for the CTS; and my ride was vastly improved.
So, I wonder if our oem Sachs rear shocks have too much compression dampening? One way to find out if the shocks or the springs are the major part of the problem is to test your care without the rear shocks in place. Rear shock removal is very easy. It will drive like a car with very worn shocks, but you should quickly be able to determine if oem shocks are too stiff. Obviously, your test driving should be in zero traffic and on a deserted roadway; exercising extreme caution at all times.
Then, if you determine the shocks are the culprit, I think you will have to wait many months before Bilstein, Koni, etc. come out with aftermarket shocks. But there is another source for the enterprising and inventive: QA1 shocks. QA1 has a long history of making a wide variety of shocks for special applications. Check out their web site.. Talk to them. They will tell you what to measure and whether or not they have something that will do the job.
If you are wondering why I do not do this myself, the simple reason is that I find the suspension quite satisfactory (build date 5/29/09). But my car is still new.

Great thoughts Rey!

I actually did this on my 87 Toyota P/U. Though the truck had leaf springs, you were still able to tell exactly how much the shocks help or hurt the ride.

From there, I bought air shocks. Basically, you just route the air tubes to a location that is easy to get to and then you can change your settings by using a drive up air compressor. If i needed to haul a trailer, I would put more air in them. If I wanted a smooth ride, I would bleed some off. They were cheap and did exactly as I wanted!

 

[Mark_888]

Yes I get that... but you're gonna spend how much to fix the suspension, with no guarantee that it's going to get better, not to mention the time it will take and the aggravation it will cause if it doesn't work.
I agree the suspension is rough at low speeds and I have no problem with people voicing their opinions about it at all. But it just seems like it would be easier to sell a 1 year old Genny and buy a one or two year old, Honda Accord, or Maxima, or C300, or Altima, Camry, ES350, and actually really enjoy the car and be satisfied and feel Zen when they drive, instead of feeling the way you guys do now.

My strategy is to get the parts for the 2010 rear springs and shocks and have someone install them on my 2009. I don't think that should cost too much (less than $750), and would likely make a noticeable difference. Certainly it would cost a lot less than selling my 2009 and buying a 2010 Genesis or other new car. I very happy with my 2009 Genesis in all other regards.

As some have noted, it is a shame that HMA will not help us do this (by providing a kit at customer expense that can be installed at the dealer), but I will just have to figure out some way to get it done without their help. My suspicion is that HMA lawyers are paranoid about 2009 crash test certification and/or other liability issues if they provide any help in this matter.

 

[GripperDon]

One way to find out if the shocks or the springs are the major part of the problem is to test your care without the rear shocks in place. I find the suspension quite satisfactory (build date 5/29/09). But my car is still new.

Sounds like one of my private message comments. I had a shock removed during the first oil change)and someone (might have been you or not) also added to disconnect one end of the sway bar for testing as a simulated softer spring by running over a bump on one side only. I promised, but have not yet done it, to get the diameter of the sway bars. I think both are good ways to get some insight into what is doing what on the rear suspension.

My build date is after the new part number date also (now remember that I only reported 4/8/09 as the suspension change date only based on a source (wonder who that was ) that had access to the full parts number list by date and that is the date when the part numbers for the shocks changed)

I feel the ride is harsh anyway. This adds to the fact that anything you judge by the seat of your pants has to be a bit subjective. Which may be why the ride was as it was. Since the designer in California that made the change to the suspension originally, bragged he did it by the seat of his pants. I think from the video he had adequate cushioning in his pants.

PS I agree QA1 might be a good site for springs. Shocks wise there are lots of options not that QA1 would not be on the list, just that other could be lots cheaper.

WOW! Rey, 888 and others this is sounding like a good exchange of thinking and a start of ways to get the problem solved, even if it is not a problem.

 

[Rey]

Another observation, it seems the V6 owners are complaining more than the V8 owners. While the V8 is heavier, I suspect the weight on the rear tires is pretty close to the same. Perhaps the dampening on the V8 rear shocks is different. They seem to be different on the parts fiche at Hyundaioemparts.com. In my old hot rod days we'd put a V8 and a V6 in a garage and swap shocks for a day.

Another item which really affects ride quality is tires. The V8s have Dunlops. Shop around any all-brand tire shop if you want a quiet ride. I think you may conclude, as I have, that the Michelin offers the most certain quiet-riding tire.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

I drove by my local Hyundai dealer today and saw four 2009 Genesis on the used car lot. Not sure why they are there. I will find out tomorrow when I go in for service myself. I thought that was alot of 2009's.

Seattle Genesis

 

[Mark_888]

Another observation, it seems the V6 owners are complaining more than the V8 owners. While the V8 is heavier, I suspect the weight on the rear tires is pretty close to the same. Perhaps the dampening on the V8 rear shocks is different. They seem to be different on the parts fiche at Hyundaioemparts.com. In my old hot rod days we'd put a V8 and a V6 in a garage and swap shocks for a day.

Another item which really affects ride quality is tires. The V8s have Dunlops. Shop around any all-brand tire shop if you want a quiet ride. I think you may conclude, as I have, that the Michelin offers the most certain quiet-riding tire.

There are a lot more V6 Genesis cars sold than V8's, hence the more complaints from V6 owners. They both have the same Dunlop tires.