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Test drove one tonight - impressions and a question

Protest too much? I do not begrudge anyone for posting complaints about the car. That's their right and it's part of the reason I read this forum. I want the good as well as the bad. It makes for a more informative discussion. I have posted several complaints myself. I've just grown tired of reading the exact same comments time after time, that's all. As far as insults, I wasn't looking to insult anyone. If I did, I apologize. I am also not trying to "defend" the car. My wife, my kids, them I will defend. Not a car.

Some of us have been in the forum longer and as such, we will see the same things more often. That isn't true for new posters. We have to be careful not to lose patience or be hasty in our responses. What might seem tired to some of us is new discussion to others. We'll keep this forum a lot more civil if we stick to discussions of the car, and not the attack each other. Two things senior members have to be careful of. 1. Berating newcomers to "use the search engine." 2. Getting into individual arguments. Both these things make the forum a hostile place and turn people off.

I apologize, as well, for jumping on you, about it. I got a bit tired/annoyed too. Overall, this is a pretty civil forum, with great contributors.
 
I could be wrong, but AFAIK the Genesis sedan is only sold in South Korea, Russia, Middle East, US, and Canada (although I suppose it could be imported by individuals to any country).

Also sold in China and a couple of Latin American markets.

And while I generally agree w/ oreipa's sentiments, I have no issue to what was stated in this thread - it was a simple synopsis of the diff. in suspension tunings across the markets as well as to any changes made.
 
I think hard suspension isnt a totally bad idea now since governments spent tonnes of money repairing roads in the last few years. However, I still wish they have a V8 with 17" wheels and smaller brakes to make it a dedicated cruiser. How many of you really drive genesis like a bmw m5 anyway?
 
How many of you really drive genesis like a bmw m5 anyway?

I drive mine pretty hard.
I haven't seen a single M5 being driven like it's supposed to. :D

Dan
 
I think hard suspension isnt a totally bad idea now since governments spent tonnes of money repairing roads in the last few years. However, I still wish they have a V8 with 17" wheels and smaller brakes to make it a dedicated cruiser. How many of you really drive genesis like a bmw m5 anyway?

Definitely don't drive it as hard as I'd like, safety and not getting tickets are bigger factors then when I was a young boy. Having said that, I would never want smaller brakes. I wish the V6 came with the same brakes as the V8, or they were included in a package.
 
Looks like the dealer couldn't find a single V8+tech in beige/cashmere... Oh well, no Gennie for me for now :)
 
Got mine done at
Executive Tint: Car Stereo & Alarm‎1208 Gessner Drive, Houston, TX 77055(713) 467-7000
$269.00 for 30% ceramic sungurd one time only deal so they said (wink wink) reg $469
You can get the same price you just need to start you offer low.
 
Gee, I never would have guessed that this thread would include the old "suspension complaints" topic. I've stayed completely away from the fray on this, but it's getting a little old, even for me. Mark (and others), what exactly do you expect to come of your continued dredging up of the same old comments? Do you really think that Hyundai pays that close attention to this forum that your comments will lead to a retroactive solution for you? I would think your time would be better spent emailing/calling back and forth with Hyundai corporate in an effort to resolve your individual issues.
Your claim that I am dredging up anything is completely off-base. I responded to others who brought up the subject in this thread and I posted information that clarified the facts regarding the different Genesis suspension versions that Hyundai has implemented (early 2009, mid-year 2009, and 2010 suspension versions). People who own 2010 models, or even 2009 models after the mid-year change, should know that their suspensions are different (albeit not major changes) than early 2009 models, and take that into account when listening to others discuss their experiences.

With regard to what I would like Hyundai to do (since you asked), I would like them make an upgrade kit available to dealers to provide to customers who want to upgrade to the 2010 suspension changes. Obviously I would like this for free or at a cost without markup, but would be satisfied with them charging retail prices (parts and labor) for such an upgrade. So far, Hyundai (HMA) refuses to provide such a kit, or to document what exactly needs to be done to make the upgrade (this is information that I have received from several owners who have contacted HMA about this, but maybe you know something I don't know about this subject and how HMA is dealing with it).

BTW, the 2010 upgrade also includes steering improvements. Quite a few people have had at least minor pulling to the left, and I believe that was fixed with the 2010 steering changes (minor but effective).
 
Some of us have been in the forum longer and as such, we will see the same things more often. That isn't true for new posters. We have to be careful not to lose patience or be hasty in our responses. What might seem tired to some of us is new discussion to others. We'll keep this forum a lot more civil if we stick to discussions of the car, and not the attack each other. Two things senior members have to be careful of. 1. Berating newcomers to "use the search engine." 2. Getting into individual arguments. Both these things make the forum a hostile place and turn people off.

I apologize, as well, for jumping on you, about it. I got a bit tired/annoyed too. Overall, this is a pretty civil forum, with great contributors.

This is true. However, I've seen the same six people posting the same complaints about their cars' ride quality every chance they get. There is no problem with any Genesis's suspension, just people's opinions and the fact that the car doesn't meet there expectations. The cadence seems to be, someone asks an innocuous question, one of a few brings in mostly unsubstantiated arguments about how suspensions are flawed and Hyundai is out to get them, and eventually other owners can't take the Peter Wolf posts and chime in in response, and the whole thread falls apart.

The Genesis isn't the first car that I have heard has a bad ride, and it won't be the last, especially as long as people buy cars without really knowing what they are buying.
 
Mark, are 09s even left on lots any more? Did the OP mention 09s? No, you brought it up. Its 2010, time to move on.
I am not a dealer or Hyundai employee, and I don't care if there are any 2009's on their lots any more. I don't understand how that is relevant. There are a lot of members of this forum who own 2009's.

I have only occasionally made specific remarks about the suspension on my own 2009. I have never said it is horrible or even unacceptable. I have posted about the changes in the suspension that Hyundai has implemented for the mid-2009 model year, and for 2010 models. Some who post here are not aware of these changes, especially some 2010 owners who don't understand what all the discussion is about (maybe because they don't realize that their suspensions are different than the 2009, especially early 2009 models).
 
This is true. However, I've seen the same six people posting the same complaints about their cars' ride quality every chance they get. There is no problem with any Genesis's suspension, just people's opinions and the fact that the car doesn't meet there expectations. The cadence seems to be, someone asks an innocuous question, one of a few brings in mostly unsubstantiated arguments about how suspensions are flawed and Hyundai is out to get them, and eventually other owners can't take the Peter Wolf posts and chime in in response, and the whole thread falls apart.

The Genesis isn't the first car that I have heard has a bad ride, and it won't be the last, especially as long as people buy cars without really knowing what they are buying.

Not sure if I'm one of those 6 people you refer to, but I disagree that there is "no problem" with any Genesis's suspension and that it is "just people's opinions." You are also not being factual when you say "unsubstantiated arguments."

Let me address each one.

1. "no problem." That is only true if you didn't get a car that porpoises over certain road surfaces and you don't have to drive on said road surfaces.

2. "just people's opinions" A suspension that gets excited over surfaces which it should damp out is going into a resonance condition. This is not how a suspension should react...ever. Suspensions can be stiff. Suspensions can be soft. But they damping should always be sufficient to avoid a resonance condition. This isn't an opinion. It is an integral part of suspension design.

3. "unsubstantiated arguments." They are only unsubstantiated to you because you don't seem to believe people who have described the particular problem. My dealer was already aware of the issue from feedback from a customer when I talked to him about it. He corroborated the issue of porpoising which he said occurred with a customer who had a V8 Genesis.

While I would like my particular car to have better damping, I have been fortunate enough not to have driven on roads that caused the car porpoise. If I did, and Hyundai wasn't willing to fix the problem, I would be justifiably upset with them.

I also agree with people who say Hyundai should make the suspension upgrades easily available for customers who have earlier cars. Some people have suggested some parts were changed without changing the part numbers and I would be concerned that I wouldn't get the new part when ordering from the parts department stock.

When it comes to people's experiences, we should be able to agree that there can be differences. For example, I had a fantastic dealer experience and got a very fair price with only the minimum of upselling. Likewise, my service experience has been stellar. Others have had horrible experiences with dealers trying to charge MSRP, tacking on unwanted extras and the like. Others have described services where oil fill caps were not replaced and seats were damaged. I have no reason to believe they are lying and understand why these things would upset them.

My point is, if a discussion mentions something where someone wants to provide a bit of caution based on their experience it should be OK. The other people can counter by posting their positive experiences and we can have a nice civil discussion. It shouldn't turn into an attack on an individual, that makes the forum a hostile place and will drive people from it.

Forums should be open places where people aren't afraid to express their opinions and experiences. When they stop being that, and turn into a few cheerleaders patting each other on the back, they become irrelevant and therefore useless to all but those cheerleaders.

A good example of this is Michael Karesh's (TrueDelta) on a Jaguar forum. He is developing a website that tracks reliabilty data through customer surveys. He was kicked off the Jaguar forum website because his data and discussions of it reflected poorly on a new model. That forum did a nice job of hiding the problems with this particular car and anyone who used it, to make a purchase decision would have been very poorly served. The people who care to do more than just pat each other on the back for their purchase of that fantastic Jaguar, will quickly realize that forum is worthless to them. In Michael's case he was kicked off, but berating people for discussing their experiences is another way to drive them away. These people might end up helping us all...after all, the squeaky wheel, does often get oiled, but we would never know about it because they wouldn't be here to let us know.
 
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this is information that I have received from several owners who have contacted HMA about this

Mark...have you had conversations with Hyundai? I've spoken with several members of the Genesis team on unrelated matters and they have proved extremely helpful. I don't see a problem with you seeking a resolution, free or otherwise (I myself got the trunk liner and am currently awaiting reimbursement), but it just strikes me, right or wrong, that the back and forth you're having with members here ought to be with the people at Hyundai who at least have the ability to do something about it. If you find out new information as you go along, I'm sure members would be very receptive to that. I know I would. Again, I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. This will be the last I post on this topic.
 
Not sure if I'm one of those 6 people you refer to, but I disagree that there is "no problem" with any Genesis's suspension and that it is "just people's opinions." You are also not being factual when you say "unsubstantiated arguments."

I've seen just as many people complain about the nav system as I have the suspension system. The difference is, there are nav system issues, and that's why there's a TSB for them. All I've seen are opinions, and those are far from substantial - the difference is, for everyone with no problems with the characteristics of their car, no one keeps bringing up how they have no problems. Yet, the same small group of people never miss an opportunity to complain that they don't like the car's handling characteristics, and think it is a defect that requires Hyundai to take action. Its not.

If the suspension is too lively for you, change it, buy an Avalon, but don't keep whining about it in every thread here. If you really must continue to complain, do it in the forum that was started just for suspension discussion. Its getting even more ridiculous now that Hyundai is selling 2010 models and its supposedly a problem with early-year 2009 models. What's next, complaining that the Tiburon has a weak engine and you shouldn't buy one?
 
Yet, the same small group of people never miss an opportunity to complain that they don't like the car's handling characteristics, and think it is a defect that requires Hyundai to take action. Its not.

I disagree with you on this one, but that is OK.

I feel a suspension should never go into a resonance condition and if it does, that is a defect in the design or manufacturing (variability) of the suspension. I base this on; 1.) My own experience with the "lively" suspension on my early build 2009. 2.) The feedback from other forum users and the salesman at my Hyundai dealership. 3.) My experience as an automotive engineer who was involved in damping systems. 4.) My college education as a mechanical engineer who took graduate level dynamics classes. 5.) My part time racing hobby where I tuned suspensions.

How bad the defect is to an individual depends on a lot of things, the variability in the defect, the roads they drive, and their sensitivity to it. I just saw someone post that the 14 speaker system has a defect such that the equalizer presets are lost every time one turns off the radio and that would be unacceptable to them. I have a 14 speaker system and I haven't even noticed the problem because I don't touch the equalizer. That doesn't make the issue any less for the person with it and I'm not justified in berating them because they complained about something that doesn't bother me.

If the suspension is too lively for you, change it, buy an Avalon, but don't keep whining about it in every thread here. If you really must continue to complain, do it in the forum that was started just for suspension discussion. Its getting even more ridiculous now that Hyundai is selling 2010 models and its supposedly a problem with early-year 2009 models.

Here, I strongly disagree with you. I don't feel there has been "wining", just discussion and it is wrong to stifle other people's discussion because your experience is not similar to theirs. The best way to "react" to the discussion is to post your own positive experience or the information that the issue appears to be fixed with late 2009 models or even more so with 2010 models which got additional suspension changes.

If someone jumped into a navigation thread and started complaining about the suspension when it wasn't brought up, I would agree that person was taking it to excess. But, if there is a discussion about ride, or someone brings up a question about ride, in a discussion, the suspension discussion is perfectly justified. It is also fine in any discussion of issues or dissatisfaction.

P.S. I like stiff suspensions. The "stiffness" is not the issue. The "liveliness" is. I want a suspension that controls the car over wavy surfaces...doesn't allow it to wallow around like a darn Avalon. In fact, we own an Avalon and I installed lowering springs and stiffer shocks because I hated the handling. The difference is night and day. It rides flat and damps quickly without wallowing around. I know that the Genesis would handle better if the suspension was tuned properly. If I was tuning the suspension of the Genesis I wouldn't go after the springs first. I would try increasing the low speed damping rate first. My point is that everyone who complains about the car's ride and handling isn't interested in a softer ride. Some of us are interested in a more controlled ride.

I would love to update my suspension to improve it, but it isn't the biggest issue I have with the car, and I don't want to spend the money unless I know it will be more than a marginal improvement. I've been standing by the sidelines waiting for more feedback from people who have done this.

My biggest issue with the Genesis's performance is the ESC/traction control that is too Nannyish and can't be disabled enough without pulling a fuse (which disables it entirely and throws an error code.) This problem isn't limited to the Hyundai Genesis, my neighbor complains about the same thing with his Mercedes E550, but that isn't much consolation. In fact, it is a bit depressing because I suspect we will see this on all cars in the future, since ESC is mandated, in the U.S., for all cars by 2012.
 
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Disaster,
One thing suddenly came up to my mind; could it be possible that the V6 models are more prone to this porpoise effect?
V8 models have 200lbs of more weight up front and when we think of a seesaw, it's harder to porpoise when it is not balanced well.
Do they use different spring rates for the V6 and the V8?

Dan
 
Disaster,
One thing suddenly came up to my mind; could it be possible that the V6 models are more prone to this porpoise effect?
V8 models have 200lbs of more weight up front and when we think of a seesaw, it's harder to porpoise when it is not balanced well.
Do they use different spring rates for the V6 and the V8?

The salesman told me the customer that had the issue had a V8.

The suspension on my V6 doesn't damp out fast enough, but I've never had it porpoise but that could just be because I haven't seen the right road surface.

There is a road near my house, where the suspension gets uncomfortably excited. The road has worn into a washboard effect. I hadn't noticed it until I drove the Genny over it and it bounced around like an amusement park ride. Our Acura and Avalon (with modified suspension) handle the surface much, much better. In fact, I've never driven in a car that had issues over this road, like the Genesis does. I recall one other stretch of road, being worse, but I can't recall where that was. Someday I will have to go out looking for the worst case road so I can get in a 2010 and drive it over the same surface.

The V8 might very well have different tuning.

I hope the people are right about the 2010's handling better. I plan on keeping the car a long time and would like to upgrade the suspension down the road, perhaps when it starts to wear and the damping gets worse in a few years.

P.S. Have you driven your car on Long Lake, just west of Woodward Ave? We should hook up sometime and we can compare rides, yours was built 6 months after mine. I wonder if it has some of the suspension changes people speak of.
 
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The salesman told me the customer that had the issue had a V8.

The suspension on my V6 doesn't damp out fast enough, but I've never had it porpoise but that could just be because I haven't seen the right road surface.

There is a road near my house, where the suspension gets uncomfortably excited. The road has worn into a washboard effect. I hadn't noticed it until I drove the Genny over it and it bounced around like an amusement park ride. Our Acura and Avalon (with modified suspension) handle the surface much, much better. In fact, I've never driven in a car that had issues over this road, like the Genesis does.

The V8 might very well have different tuning.

I hope the people are right about the 2010's handling better. I plan on keeping the car a long time and would like to upgrade the suspension down the road, perhaps when it starts to wear and the damping gets worse in a few years.

I see. Is this road the one you talked about earlier?(Long Lake & Woodward).
If so, I will definitely test out my car on this road to compare the feel.
Since I have the newer '09 suspension, I would be able to give you some feedback on how they handle.

Dan
 
P.S. Have you driven your car on Long Lake, just west of Woodward Ave? We should hook up sometime and we can compare rides, yours was built 6 months after mine. I wonder if it has some of the suspension changes people speak of.

Sure. I PM'ed you back :)
Let me know when you're free.

Dan
 
Some of us have been in the forum longer and as such, we will see the same things more often. That isn't true for new posters. We have to be careful not to lose patience or be hasty in our responses. What might seem tired to some of us is new discussion to others. We'll keep this forum a lot more civil if we stick to discussions of the car, and not the attack each other. Two things senior members have to be careful of. 1. Berating newcomers to "use the search engine." 2. Getting into individual arguments. Both these things make the forum a hostile place and turn people off.

I apologize, as well, for jumping on you, about it. I got a bit tired/annoyed too. Overall, this is a pretty civil forum, with great contributors.

What makes people hostile is to be lectured by a "senior member" like you. Senior members, like me, have already made the plunge, bought the car and have every right to "belittle new members". Disaster, obviously you weren't in the military and know nothing about earning your dues. New people would use the search engine if people like you didn't respond to their every little hand holding question.

A civil forum is a boring forum. Individual arguments are good and healthy. That's how you learn about people and determine whether you want to be friends with them or not. The purpose of a forum is to discuss common interests, fix problems, have laughs and cultivate friends, not to argue about knobs, rattles and to babysit new inquiries. Weren't you man enough to buy the car when few knew about it? Did your mother have to drag you down to the dealer and force you to buy the car?

And what is it with all the apologies? We're big guys. You didn't hurt our feelings. Is the Genesis for the "sensitive/politically correct" owner. Oh, I hope not. The Prius owners in my state of California would feel awfully bad if they found out.

At least Brady is trying to get people together in S. California. I suggest we stop lecturing and start to have a little more fun. I'm sure there are some great people on this site that I would like to have a beer with but too few people are cut short by people like you. Disaster- Lighten up!

Oh, I apologize--
 
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