To Lemon Law or not to Lemon Law, that is the question.

[Giant Robo]

I need to ask for help from the Genesis Sedan Owners community for some advise, as I have never been in this type situation with any of the automobiles that I have ever owned. I will give the community a time line of what I have been facing ever since my Genesis over heated and has been in and out of the dealer since late September.

Time line since purchasing my Genesis Sedan

March 5, 2013
Purchased my 2010 Genesis Sedan from St. Augustine Hyundai with 42K on the clock as a CPO car.

September 7, 2013
I have the cars oil changed at my local Mobil 1 Service center (I have always used Mobil1 oil on all of my vehicles). The Mobil1 center advised me that my Genesis had a bad oil leak from the oil filer area and that the oil leak had covered most of the back of the engine, Transmission and coated the fire wall and some of the underneath of the chassis. From what I was told and I what I saw this leak had been going on for some time and prior to my purchase of the car.

Here you can see the oil leak.


Another picture


Here you can see how the Transmission is also covered in oil.


September 21, 2013
My Genesis overheats and is taken into the dealer on flatbed.

September 27, 2013
I take possession of my Genesis after the dealer fixes her up (dealer told me that the heater control assembly was at fault)

September 28, 2013
On my way to Broward County via Florida Turnpike my Genesis hits the rev limiter at 3.5 RPM and first time the engine stalls. After getting off the turnpike the engine is stumbling severally check engine light comes on but I'm able to make it home.

September 30, 2013
On my way home from work the engine stumbles and turns off and will not start, car is flat bedded back to dealer. Dealer changed the following to attempts to fix the problem (updates the car, changes 4 cam sensors, VVT Valve.

October 2, 2013
I take possession of my Genesis and on my way home from the dealer the engine stumbles and turns off, the car has to be flat bedded back to the dealer again.


October 4, 2013
My writer asks if he can drive the car after the techs are done, now when my writer is test driving my Genesis it continues to have the same problem that the engine will not pass 3.5 PRM and also leaves him stranded.

Now since October 4th my Genesis has been at the dealer and after two Hyundai Field Engineers have had a chance to review the car they are determining that the cause is that the oil leak damaged the main engine wire harness and that they are will be replacing the Engines Main Wire Harness and also a few other sensors including the coolant sensor as well. My Genesis has been stopped for over a month and since then I have contacted the South Eastern Hyundai Corporate Office filling my complaint and requesting the car to lemon lawed as I have no faith in my Genesis any more. I was told that since my Genesis is used purchase I need to have the BBB moderate in my case. I have contacted the BBB and also put into motion having the BBB moderate between Hyundai USA and I.

This is where I'm turning to the Genesis Owners community for advise, I purchased this car specially because it was a CPO car and In good faith thinking that I was getting a good product. I truly feel that the dealer that I purchased the car from did not to its job and truly inspect the car prior to giving it the CPO certification. As I have stated prior I have never had this type of problem with any vehicle that I have owned in the past and coming from owning two Lexus a GS and ES, prior to the Genesis I'm honestly regretting leaving Lexus in light of the problems that I'm having with the Genesis. I'm feeling that the dealer that I purchased it from really did nothing other than clean up the car and slapping on the CPO certification and raising the price because of the CPO cert. I also feel that the dealer that is servicing my Genesis is just stabbing in the dark, and my biggest fear is what other problems will pop up after the Engines Main Wire Harness is replaced and truthfully I don't know if that will remedy the problem. I have to say that I understand that Hyundai wanted to enter the Premium Sedan Market, and even that the Genesis Looks great and is a good Sedan with great road manners I honestly have to say that I do not feel that Hyundai is not mechanically on par with the other long time premium Sedan Players (Lexus, Acura, Infinity, and also MB, BMW, and Audi) I understand that other may never even have a faction of the problems that my Genesis has, but again I came to Hyundai in good faith and after what I have gone through I don't know if I will in the future. Maybe it I'll change my mind, but this is how I'm feeling today, knowing that I will be a another week that I do not have my car back from the dealers shop.

 

[OneFunGenesis]

Lemon law for sure. Your dealer did NOT do a CPO check in. Ask if they have the records of the PDI (pre-delivery inspection) to see what was done.

Trust is huge with a car. I got rid of my last one because I couldn't really trust it and now I love my Genesis. I am sorry this has happened to you.

I would totally lemon law this thing. Also, do you know where the car came from? You can check the dealer records there too

 

[PMCErnie]

Florida Lemon Law does not apply to used cars. Same in my state and, I imagine, in most states.

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/2752ee5b7dc22ff785256cc9004ff9b4!opendocument

Keep working with Hyundai and drive their free rental car in the meantime. We have one of the best warranties imaginable. Use it.

 

[Mark_888]

Florida Lemon Law does not apply to used cars. Same in my state and, I imagine, in most states.

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/2752ee5b7dc22ff785256cc9004ff9b4!opendocument

Keep working with Hyundai and drive their free rental car in the meantime. We have one of the best warranties imaginable. Use it.

This is correct. Lemon laws do not apply to used cars in FL, nor any state I know of (but there could be a few exceptions since every state has its own laws). Usually, a buyer has a few days to return a used car and get a complete refund (in most states) but no lemon law on a used car. New cars cannot be returned for full refund once purchased. Obviously there are other legal remedies available other than a lemon law, although a buyer may have agreed to arbitration when they purchased the car (one of the papers they make you sign).

Hyundai does offer a long warranty, although I would not necessarily say it is the "best" because they often (IMO) cross the line in coming up with excuses to not honor it.

 

[PMCErnie]

This is correct. Lemon laws do not apply to used cars in FL, nor any state I know of (but there could be a few exceptions since every state has its own laws). Usually, a buyer has a few days to return a used car and get a complete refund (in most states) but no lemon law on a used car. New cars cannot be returned for full refund once purchased. Obviously there are other legal remedies available other than a lemon law, although a buyer may have agreed to arbitration when they purchased the car (one of the papers they make you sign).

Hyundai does offer a long warranty, although I would not necessarily say it is the "best" because they often (IMO) cross the line in coming up with excuses to not honor it.

I said our warranty is "one of the best," not THE best. I will continue to believe that.

 

[Giant Robo]

Florida Lemon Law does not apply to used cars. Same in my state and, I imagine, in most states.

http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/main/2752ee5b7dc22ff785256cc9004ff9b4!opendocument

Keep working with Hyundai and drive their free rental car in the meantime. We have one of the best warranties imaginable. Use it.

This is correct as I found out when I called the Florida Attorney Generals Office, I was told that the BBB would moderate between Hyundai USA and I. Since then I have submitted my case and will be overnighting the paperwork back to the BBB on Monday.

 

[Giant Robo]

Lemon law for sure. Your dealer did NOT do a CPO check in. Ask if they have the records of the PDI (pre-delivery inspection) to see what was done.

Trust is huge with a car. I got rid of my last one because I couldn't really trust it and now I love my Genesis. I am sorry this has happened to you.

I would totally lemon law this thing. Also, do you know where the car came from? You can check the dealer records there too

OneFunGenesis

You hit the nail on the head mate, there is no way on Gods Green Earth that Hyundai of St. Augustine performed any type of PDI, or anything else for the matter in regards to mechanical inspection. My mistake was to "trust" the dealer and the fact that it was "CPO", and not inspect the vehicle from the underneath as I have done in the past. I have always had the dealer place the car that I have been interested in on a lift so I could see what was going on underneath and check for damage, leeks, what have you. This time around I drove 4+ hours from Miami to St.Augustine and did something that I have never done is to blindly trust a car sales person.

My mistake was "Blindly trusting Hyundai of St. Augustine" in selling me a properly inspected Genesis Sedan as a CPO Vehicle. I can guaranty that if they would have done a proper inspection there is no way this Genesis would have passed with the oil leek that it has, and in turn I would have passed on it as I did multiple other Genesis Sedans that where not CPO.

 

[homeofstone]

From the photos it looks as though the large o ring on the oil filter cap was missing and caused leak.

 

[landtuna]

Your experience with the Genesis is indeed regrettable but don't think for a moment owners of other high-end vehicles don't occasionally go through similar or worse situations. One of them is my neighbor who foolishly bought out his Audi after his lease expired. One thing after another then failed on that car and expensive things to boot. He figures he is into double what he paid for the car and only because he is a lawyer and makes more money than he knows what to do with he stays with it. I have known people who owned BMW's MB's and even lexi who have had similar experiences.

I would not condemn Hyundai for this failure since it was either the original owner(s) or the dealer who sold you a bag of bones. I would however cross off this dealer from any future business and make sure that a substantial number of the local population knew all about my troubles.

You have discovered why I will never buy a used vehicle unless I know the seller personally and know how they cared for it as well as its complete history.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

This totally sucks. That said, there are a few paths out...

First, the car is still under its original factory warranty, right? That is my take, based on model year and mileage. And second, it appears that the dealership has accepted the problem as a warranty issue, right? These two are key, because it means you are dealing directly with Hyundai (not a third-party warranty company), and that Hyundai is not likely to push back and argue that it is a non-warranty issue.

Next, it seems like the problem is progressive... It started with an initial failure, and not it seems to fail frequently. This is key, because it helps the service guys know for sure when it is solved.

They may be stabbing, but they will eventually fix the car. It is very frustrating now, but you will emerge with a working car. So, hold on to the hope that the car will likely be in good working order once they get to the true cause of the problem.

Next thing to hang your hope on is that this has nothing to do with the brand or the Genesis in general. Your problem is likely specific to one poor oil change service in a previous life that caused secondary damage. So, when it is fixed, it will likely be fixed for good. This is in huge contrast to BMW, who could not get their 7 Series and 5 Series cars to even turn on in the early 2000s because of massive computer module problems. Their techs bricked many cars and they did a lot of buy backs. They were really stabbing in the dark like you would not believe.

Last, if I were a guessing man, I would guess that the leak started with the oil change at St. Augustine when they took the car in and CPO'd it. And, if I were Hyundai, that is what I would argue to the BBB. So, my hunch is that a BBB case may not end with any satisfaction on your part. Hyundai would simply say "it was a good CPO, and we did a bad oil change. Since it is under warranty, we will take care of it." And the BBB would likely say "sounds fair to us."

So, what are the paths out?

1) Be patient. This will get done, but you may have to wait a bit and you may have to deal with clueless or unhelpful people.

2) When the car is done, sell it. If you like the Genesis, buy another one.

3) When the car is done, keep it. You could have another problem related to the oil leak, but I bet not. If you like the car, keep it.

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[landtuna]

One other thing that occurred to me is that I would never recommend keeping a car which was overheated. Depending upon the severity of the incident that could lead to all sorts of future problems which would never be sorted out short of a complete engine rebuild.

If you do want to keep the car I would insist a thorough investigation of all items which could be damaged from overheating (mainly cylinders and pistons) be inspected to ensure they are still serviceable. Since this would be almost as expensive as an engine replacement I'd just push for that.

 

[homeofstone]

If the cause of the failures is that a bad oil leak damaged components then unless there is a record showing that only Hyundai dealers performed service and damaged or left the large O ring off the filter housing there is no warranty for a careless maintenance procedure regarding the oil filter installation.

 

[Mark_888]

If he cause of the failures is that a bad oil leak damaged components then unless there is a record showing that only Hyundai dealers performed service and damaged or left the large O ring off the filter housing there is no warranty for careless a maintenance procedure regarding the oil filter installation.

I wonder if Hyundai Motor America would pay for warranty work for dealer negligence. If there were multiple dealers who performed oil changes, things may get complicated. Personally, I don't trust dealers to change the oil correctly, so I do it myself.

 

[shagnat]

Your experience with the Genesis is indeed regrettable but don't think for a moment owners of other high-end vehicles don't occasionally go through similar or worse situations. One of them is my neighbor who foolishly bought out his Audi after his lease expired. One thing after another then failed on that car and expensive things to boot. He figures he is into double what he paid for the car and only because he is a lawyer and makes more money than he knows what to do with he stays with it. I have known people who owned BMW's MB's and even lexi who have had similar experiences.

I would not condemn Hyundai for this failure since it was either the original owner(s) or the dealer who sold you a bag of bones. I would however cross off this dealer from any future business and make sure that a substantial number of the local population knew all about my troubles.

You have discovered why I will never buy a used vehicle unless I know the seller personally and know how they cared for it as well as its complete history.

The best way to ruin a friendship (or any relationship) is to do business with a friend.......... BOOM

 

[Giant Robo]

For does who have had a chance to read my post, yes Hyundai is covering the repair so nothing out of pocket for me.

What I would like for does who read the post, if you could give me your advise as to Lemon Law or not.

 

[homeofstone]

For does who have had a chance to read my post, yes Hyundai is covering the repair so nothing out of pocket for me.

What I would like for does who read the post, if you could give me your advise as to Lemon Law or not.

I believe that your are fortunate that Hyundai is covering the cost. The oil leak appears that it was not a mfg. defect. I would not go the lemon law route unless you have a continued problem that is not related to the oil leak and is not repaired after three or more trips to the dealer for them to preform the repair and they fail.

 

[PMCErnie]

For does who have had a chance to read my post, yes Hyundai is covering the repair so nothing out of pocket for me.

What I would like for does who read the post, if you could give me your advise as to Lemon Law or not.

You already have learned that the FL Lemon Law does not cover used cars. What are you asking?

 

[dg_moore]

3 posters explained above that lemon laws do not apply to used cars, and you acknowledged those posts. What is it that you are now asking?

 

[StangKiller]

So when I was buying my CPO I talked to the dealer and he said that it costs them about $600 to CPO a car and that doesn't necessarily mean they go through the checklist and completely service the car. He said they basically pay the $600 into a pool that covers the cost of the extended warranty in cases of failure. He told me without telling me that most of the time they don't even look at anything except for tires and an oil change, even though they claim a 300 pt inspection...

FYI

 

[veed]

So when I was buying my CPO I talked to the dealer and he said that it costs them about $600 to CPO a car and that doesn't necessarily mean they go through the checklist and completely service the car. He said they basically pay the $600 into a pool that covers the cost of the extended warranty in cases of failure. He told me without telling me that most of the time they don't even look at anything except for tires and an oil change, even though they claim a 300 pt inspection...

FYI

stang - not to be contrary, but if this is the case, it seems to me that it's their problem. can't imagine not taking the time to at least put it on a rack and have a once-over.

OP - glad they're covering it.