You will win in a drag race

[ntmehan]

Several things on this stuff. First off the dude in the 1st Gen, I'm by no means discounting how quick your car is, but get out of here trying to compare to the second gen cars. The newer suspension is tuned by Lotus engineers, the engine was de-rated to be smoother, have more useful torque lower in the RPM range and actually last (not chew through rings...), and the car is SO MUCH HEAVIER and that means its a far better everyday driver (which is what it's meant to be) than your modded, dropped, sloppy, old 1st gen.

Something nobody seems to be mentioning here (or just barely brushed past) the 8spd in the these cars are fine, but they are absolutely not sporty in any way. All this talk about trying to beat an M4 with similar power numbers: totally irrelevant because their transmissions are far better as is the programming that controls it. We don't even need to discuss how power is delivered (obviously peak numbers mean very little but some of you don't seem to understand this) just the simple fact that if they made the same hp and torque, and weighed the same (remember when BMWs used to be whales compared to everything else...) the BMW would still be faster because it's transmission hardware and programming is better. If you don't believe me go get in an Audi A3 with a 2.0T and DSG automatic and tell me it's not pretty much just as fast as our cars even though it has a measly 220hp.

I'm going to sound super elitist here especially since I don't personally know any of you but why are we teaching people how to brake-torque launch their cars? If you don't already know how to do this, and aren't on a track in a controlled environment being taught how to do it by someone well more experienced than you, you don't need to even attempt it. I'm serious; if you think your 3.8 is fast (it's not), and you're worried about trying to brake-torque it to get better 0-60 numbers on public streets, I hope you total it and stay right the hell away from me. When I was younger, I admit that I was a dumbass but I still didn't attempt shit like that unless I was at an autocross event, or car-control clinic and even then since I imagine this is most people's daily driver I don't understand why anyone would want to. These aren't sporty, I've had sporty cars, and my 5.0 is NOT sporty. It's fast in a straight line and is smooth and comfortable.

Lastly the inclusion of launch control is super hit or miss these days. Somebody said their old GLI had it (I assume with a hydraulic auto and I know with just FWD...) and I can't imagine it was needed. Genesis gives the base model G70 2.0T launch control but it can't spin it's rear tires anyway and is surprisingly slow even with launch control active, so it definitely doesn't need it. Meanwhile G80 5.0s don't have it...? Odd for sure.

 

[skipgen]

Agreed... the 5.0 is pretty quick in a straight line, it's no handler but that's not it's mission. It excels at putting down hundreds of miles of Interstate in a day & providing enough effortless power to blow by the left lane bandits while keeping you comfy.

If I want to centrifuge my guts around, I get in my prepped Miata and head to the track. Different tools for different jobs.

 

[Lead Head]

Several things on this stuff. First off the dude in the 1st Gen, I'm by no means discounting how quick your car is, but get out of here trying to compare to the second gen cars. The newer suspension is tuned by Lotus engineers, the engine was de-rated to be smoother, have more useful torque lower in the RPM range and actually last (not chew through rings...), and the car is SO MUCH HEAVIER and that means its a far better everyday driver (which is what it's meant to be) than your modded, dropped, sloppy, old 1st gen.

Something nobody seems to be mentioning here (or just barely brushed past) the 8spd in the these cars are fine, but they are absolutely not sporty in any way. All this talk about trying to beat an M4 with similar power numbers: totally irrelevant because their transmissions are far better as is the programming that controls it. We don't even need to discuss how power is delivered (obviously peak numbers mean very little but some of you don't seem to understand this) just the simple fact that if they made the same hp and torque, and weighed the same (remember when BMWs used to be whales compared to everything else...) the BMW would still be faster because it's transmission hardware and programming is better. If you don't believe me go get in an Audi A3 with a 2.0T and DSG automatic and tell me it's not pretty much just as fast as our cars even though it has a measly 220hp.

I'm going to sound super elitist here especially since I don't personally know any of you but why are we teaching people how to brake-torque launch their cars? If you don't already know how to do this, and aren't on a track in a controlled environment being taught how to do it by someone well more experienced than you, you don't need to even attempt it. I'm serious; if you think your 3.8 is fast (it's not), and you're worried about trying to brake-torque it to get better 0-60 numbers on public streets, I hope you total it and stay right the hell away from me. When I was younger, I admit that I was a dumbass but I still didn't attempt shit like that unless I was at an autocross event, or car-control clinic and even then since I imagine this is most people's daily driver I don't understand why anyone would want to. These aren't sporty, I've had sporty cars, and my 5.0 is NOT sporty. It's fast in a straight line and is smooth and comfortable.

Lastly the inclusion of launch control is super hit or miss these days. Somebody said their old GLI had it (I assume with a hydraulic auto and I know with just FWD...) and I can't imagine it was needed. Genesis gives the base model G70 2.0T launch control but it can't spin it's rear tires anyway and is surprisingly slow even with launch control active, so it definitely doesn't need it. Meanwhile G80 5.0s don't have it...? Odd for sure.

Bit of a rant, some points made sure, but ultimately to each their own. It's clear you don't agree with the core of the thread though, that much isn't up for debate.

 

[carguy75]

Agreed... the 5.0 is pretty quick in a straight line, it's no handler but that's not it's mission. It excels at putting down hundreds of miles of Interstate in a day & providing enough effortless power to blow by the left lane bandits while keeping you comfy.

If I want to centrifuge my guts around, I get in my prepped Miata and head to the track. Different tools for different jobs.

Why do everyone states the 2015+ Genesis does not handle well. The car is large and still manage to pull .87g on skid pad conducted by Car and Driver in the 3.8 model and .86g in the heavier 5.0 model with all season tires. I am sure that the same car will pull a .90g+ with high performance summer tires like most sport sedans tested. Hell, the late model 5 series BMW only does about .85g to .88g in the same skid pad test with all season tires unless they have an M performance package equipped with summer tires.

Any sedan that can pull .86g is a great handling car, let alone one as large as the Genesis with crappy Hankook all season tires.

2012 BMW 528i
2017 BMW 540i xDrive

2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0
2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan V-6 RWD

 

[ntmehan]

Why do everyone states the 2015+ Genesis does not handle well. The car is large and still manage to pull .87g on skid pad conducted by Car and Driver in the 3.8 model and .86g in the heavier 5.0 model with all season tires. I am sure that the same car will pull a .90g+ with high performance summer tires like most sport sedans tested. Hell, the late model 5 series BMW only does about .85g to .88g in the same skid pad test with all season tires unless they have an M performance package equipped with summer tires.

Any sedan that can pull .86g is a great handling car, let alone one as large as the Genesis with crappy Hankook all season tires.

2012 BMW 528i
2017 BMW 540i xDrive

2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0
2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan V-6 RWD

I don't disagree with that. The only drivability trait that irritates me about mine is it can't seem to put power down if the road surface isn't perfect. (And I'm on summer tires, albeit they're crappy Hankook Ventus V12s...) You'd think as heavy and cushy as it is, it could maintain grip through the slight ruts that are typical of well-traveled asphalt city streets while you (or do I just mean me...? ) pull out in front of someone and roll into the power. Add to that the super aggressive stability control and it has a bit of a poor handling perception, but you're absolutely right that G2s handle very well considering their portly weight! (I think this sentiment also applies to the G70.) I have actually noticed a considerable difference in how much less nose-heavy my 3.8 loaner feels! It seems to put power down just fine, but it sort of runs out of real pull at 4000-4500rpm so maybe it just isn't an issue since it's 25% less powerful?

 

[Markymark]

I don't disagree with that. The only drivability trait that irritates me about mine is it can't seem to put power down if the road surface isn't perfect. (And I'm on summer tires, albeit they're crappy Hankook Ventus V12s...) You'd think as heavy and cushy as it is, it could maintain grip through the slight ruts that are typical of well-traveled asphalt city streets while you (or do I just mean me...? ) pull out in front of someone and roll into the power. Add to that the super aggressive stability control and it has a bit of a poor handling perception, but you're absolutely right that G2s handle very well considering their portly weight! (I think this sentiment also applies to the G70.) I have actually noticed a considerable difference in how much less nose-heavy my 3.8 loaner feels! It seems to put power down just fine, but it sort of runs out of real pull at 4000-4500rpm so maybe it just isn't an issue since it's 25% less powerful?

Portly. Yes. I have wondered why it is so portly. If it weighed 800 # less it would be even faster.
Anyone know? It is a bunch of sound deadening materials, is the frame made from tungsten, etc?

 

[skipgen]

Why do everyone states the 2015+ Genesis does not handle well. The car is large and still manage to pull .87g on skid pad conducted by Car and Driver in the 3.8 model and .86g in the heavier 5.0 model with all season tires. I am sure that the same car will pull a .90g+ with high performance summer tires like most sport sedans tested. Hell, the late model 5 series BMW only does about .85g to .88g in the same skid pad test with all season tires unless they have an M performance package equipped with summer tires.

Any sedan that can pull .86g is a great handling car, let alone one as large as the Genesis with crappy Hankook all season tires.

2012 BMW 528i
2017 BMW 540i xDrive

2015 Hyundai Genesis 5.0
2015 Hyundai Genesis Sedan V-6 RWD

I never said it didn't handle well... for it's size, it's a damned fine thing. I wouldn't have bought one if it cornered on its door handles. But it's no road racing track weapon either.

 

[skipgen]

I don't disagree with that. The only drivability trait that irritates me about mine is it can't seem to put power down if the road surface isn't perfect. (And I'm on summer tires, albeit they're crappy Hankook Ventus V12s...) You'd think as heavy and cushy as it is, it could maintain grip through the slight ruts that are typical of well-traveled asphalt city streets while you (or do I just mean me...? ) pull out in front of someone and roll into the power. Add to that the super aggressive stability control and it has a bit of a poor handling perception, but you're absolutely right that G2s handle very well considering their portly weight! (I think this sentiment also applies to the G70.) I have actually noticed a considerable difference in how much less nose-heavy my 3.8 loaner feels! It seems to put power down just fine, but it sort of runs out of real pull at 4000-4500rpm so maybe it just isn't an issue since it's 25% less powerful?

Yes...it doesn't seem to have all that much rear mechanical grip & the stability control is pretty aggressive. Could use a limited slip diff.

 

[carguy75]

I never said it didn't handle well... for it's size, it's a damned fine thing. I wouldn't have bought one if it cornered on its door handles. But it's no road racing track weapon either.

True, the Genesis was not designed to be a auto crossing sedan in stock form nor a track focused sedan. It is a sport sedan more akin to grand touring not a race car.

 

[carguy75]

Yes...it doesn't seem to have all that much rear mechanical grip & the stability control is pretty aggressive. Could use a limited slip diff.

A good set of summer tires does improve rear traction. I use Falken FK510 summer tires on my 2015 5.0 and the rear tires hardly every break loose from a hard start like with the AS tires that seems to spin and triggered the traction control without much effort.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[carguy75]

Portly. Yes. I have wondered why it is so portly. If it weighed 800 # less it would be even faster.
Anyone know? It is a bunch of sound deadening materials, is the frame made from tungsten, etc?

The second generation Genesis is built like a tank with being composed of over 50% high strength steel. Reinforced chassis for stiffness and crash safety. I actually prefer the vault-like chassis in my daily driver. Yes, it would quicker if it were lighter but it would also be less safer in an accident.

GENESIS - Hyundai Newsroom

https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/1783

Speed is not everything, however the car is quick enough for its size. I got my 2015 5.0 model to run 0-60 mph in about 4.6 seconds just by changing the stock rear differential gear oil, using 93 octane and using performance air filters. The car is quick enough even with its chubby weight.

 

[J Dixon]

In the rare times I've needed the best acceleration, I have found my 5.0 Ultimate launches best by using the Auto Hold. Yep, you read it right. No pressure on the brake pedal and right foot hovering over the gas. When the gas pedal is depressed do NOT stomp it to the floor. Quickly and smoothly apply pressure to about 80-85% full down. This gets me to 45-50 mph and not ONE of those jerks trying to pass on the right before the merge (my personal "tick me off" move) has been successful. All I care about as I'm not into street racing, but ALL about not allowing the jerks to go uncontested. At highway speeds, the best acceleration comes by - once again - NOT flooring the gas pedal. If you can modulate the pressure to slightly less than fully down, it has better acceleration. My understanding is that the various pedal electronic mods help to control the computer and drive-by-wire fuel control which equates fully depressed pedal into a gear kick down mode and limits fuel delivery to something like 75%, instead of the 100% one would assume with a mechanical linkage fuel system. Makes sense and once you practice it, you'll feel the difference.
But I have to agree while this car handles well and has excellent straightline acceleration, it just ain't a car for the twisties. My son's Focus ST is an absolute BLAST to drive on curvy roads and/or road courses, but the Genesis is better off the line. One could drive the ST hard and get out afterwards not feeling tired. To me, that's more of a sports-oriented car; light, good power/weight ratio, good braking, excellent acceleration/deceleration transition, and high "g" road-holding ability.
Still can't think of another car I'd rather have as a daily driver than my 5.0 Ultimate.

 

[Cali Gen]

Not sure what genesis you own or motor in it but I have the 5.0 r spec 2012 and I've modded just about everything possible and then some and I'd say I'm still only running about 475-480hp realistically. That's with cat deletes, full custom 3" catback w/ x pipe, custom 4" direct flow gold heat wrapped air intake tubing stemming directly off the factory airbox system with a k&n drop in panel, sprint booster, removed excess small weight like spare tire, engine cover, etc. Lightweight wheels, high performance tires on 10.5" wheels, Bloodtyperacing ECU/TCU tuned, added aerodynamics like sport style trunk and roof spoilers, ark GTS lowering Springs, UNIQ rigid collars... etc (not sure if anything else is even possible to add at this time with the aftermarket. .. if there is let me know cuz I need more performance!)

.....and I still only run an 1/8th mile in 8.8 seconds on a good day.

This car probably makes what I said above but when you subtract the drivetrain loss you probably see closer to 390-400hp to the wheels.

This thing can hang with the big boys for fun runs in traffic but when they really step on it I'll start getting gapped. For instance I was running with a gt500 shelby and an ACR viper in traffic and we were flying pretty close but once we hit the highway they started pulling hard on me and I felt like some weaksauce.

P&P your Upper and lower intake mani. Port your TB, then retune

 

[Cali Gen]

In the rare times I've needed the best acceleration, I have found my 5.0 Ultimate launches best by using the Auto Hold. Yep, you read it right. No pressure on the brake pedal and right foot hovering over the gas. When the gas pedal is depressed do NOT stomp it to the floor. Quickly and smoothly apply pressure to about 80-85% full down. This gets me to 45-50 mph and not ONE of those jerks trying to pass on the right before the merge (my personal "tick me off" move) has been successful. All I care about as I'm not into street racing, but ALL about not allowing the jerks to go uncontested. At highway speeds, the best acceleration comes by - once again - NOT flooring the gas pedal. If you can modulate the pressure to slightly less than fully down, it has better acceleration. My understanding is that the various pedal electronic mods help to control the computer and drive-by-wire fuel control which equates fully depressed pedal into a gear kick down mode and limits fuel delivery to something like 75%, instead of the 100% one would assume with a mechanical linkage fuel system. Makes sense and once you practice it, you'll feel the difference.
But I have to agree while this car handles well and has excellent straightline acceleration, it just ain't a car for the twisties. My son's Focus ST is an absolute BLAST to drive on curvy roads and/or road courses, but the Genesis is better off the line. One could drive the ST hard and get out afterwards not feeling tired. To me, that's more of a sports-oriented car; light, good power/weight ratio, good braking, excellent acceleration/deceleration transition, and high "g" road-holding ability.
Still can't think of another car I'd rather have as a daily driver than my 5.0 Ultimate.

Im a 3.8 BH so i have a little less weight but if you do the suspension/brake work and you have the right tires with proper use of the manual mode these cars can definitely fly through the twisties! going to be honest i would actually even wager being able to keep up/pull on an ST in a hill run. but that could just be a driver mod thing too.

 

[carguy75]

In the rare times I've needed the best acceleration, I have found my 5.0 Ultimate launches best by using the Auto Hold. Yep, you read it right. No pressure on the brake pedal and right foot hovering over the gas. When the gas pedal is depressed do NOT stomp it to the floor. Quickly and smoothly apply pressure to about 80-85% full down. This gets me to 45-50 mph and not ONE of those jerks trying to pass on the right before the merge (my personal "tick me off" move) has been successful. All I care about as I'm not into street racing, but ALL about not allowing the jerks to go uncontested. At highway speeds, the best acceleration comes by - once again - NOT flooring the gas pedal. If you can modulate the pressure to slightly less than fully down, it has better acceleration. My understanding is that the various pedal electronic mods help to control the computer and drive-by-wire fuel control which equates fully depressed pedal into a gear kick down mode and limits fuel delivery to something like 75%, instead of the 100% one would assume with a mechanical linkage fuel system. Makes sense and once you practice it, you'll feel the difference.
But I have to agree while this car handles well and has excellent straightline acceleration, it just ain't a car for the twisties. My son's Focus ST is an absolute BLAST to drive on curvy roads and/or road courses, but the Genesis is better off the line. One could drive the ST hard and get out afterwards not feeling tired. To me, that's more of a sports-oriented car; light, good power/weight ratio, good braking, excellent acceleration/deceleration transition, and high "g" road-holding ability.
Still can't think of another car I'd rather have as a daily driver than my 5.0 Ultimate.

I agree that some cars are better suited for race-like handling than the Genesis. The Ford Focus ST like you mentioned and other cars like the Honda Civic SI. Hell, even my favorite hot hatchback the VW golf R handles better than the Genesis. However, my 2015 Genesis 5.0 is not that far off in handling feel especially on normal roads with some curves. Circuit racing would be a different story I bet, but not normal driving conditions with a little fun sometimes. Hence why I chose the 2015 Genesis 5.0 over buying a rough riding sport oriented sedan or hatchback.

The Genesis 5.0 is quick enough to keep up with most sport oriented cars(if not quicker) and handles just as well while still being comfortable and loaded with the latest options that many of the sport sedans do not provide. The Genesis is a performance sedan that do not require you to make trade-offs such as ride quality or features.

 

[Suburbazine]

Why do everyone states the 2015+ Genesis does not handle well. The car is large and still manage to pull .87g on skid pad conducted by Car and Driver in the 3.8 model and .86g in the heavier 5.0 model with all season tires. I am sure that the same car will pull a .90g+ with high performance summer tires like most sport sedans tested. Hell, the late model 5 series BMW only does about .85g to .88g in the same skid pad test with all season tires unless they have an M performance package equipped with summer tires.

Any sedan that can pull .86g is a great handling car, let alone one as large as the Genesis with crappy Hankook all season tires.

You're not far off. I was pulling 0.98G in corners with wider Pilot Super Sport tires. My RC-F would sustain 1.09G on the same tires.

What's to be amazed about is the Genesis has LESS body roll on the track than the RC-F did. The Lexus was like driving a whale...and it's supposed to be the sports car! (It was considerably faster on the straightaway, though)

I'd love to get a decent recording to compare but my HPTuners Track Addict has not been recording properly.

 

[Andyj]

We went from a 2006 BMW 330I sport 6 speed manual (the original E90) to a 2015 Genesis 3.8 Ultimate. The E90 cornered like on rails with staggered Michelin ps tires. Surprisingly the much larger and heavier Genesis with Pirelli P1s is no couch or slouch. Pretty agile and quick for a limo and way more comfy. Love it.

 

[carguy75]

I forgot to post this test sheet from Car and Driver that states the 2015 Genesis 5.0 can do 0-60mph in 5 seconds without torque-braking the engine, only pressing the gas pedal due to traction issues with the stock tires I bet . The test was conducted with the crappy stock Hankook AS tires(personal opinion based on reviews), but the car pulled a .86g skid plate. Car and Driver usually brake-torque most of the performance cars for the best 0-60 times or use factory launch control to obtain those quick 0-60 times. Therefore, I am sure the stock 2015 5.0 is much quicker(sub-5 seconds) if the rear tires can hook up with a good 2000-2500rpm brake torqued launch.

 

[carguy75]

These are great instructions, thank you for explaining the process. For 3.3T G80 Sport, would the throttle point be to 1500 RPM? And do you roll on throttle after releasing the brake, or do you bury it?

Sorry it took so long to read this, just try to use the rpms that the G70 Sport uses with its factory launch control system since both cars uses the same 3.3T engine. Hyundai predetermined launch rpms should be good to use.

When you feel the car move forward bury it.

 

[glennk]

I forgot to post this test sheet from Car and Driver that states the 2015 Genesis 5.0 can do 0-60mph in 5 seconds without torque-braking the engine, only pressing the gas pedal due to traction issues with the stock tires I bet . The test was conducted with the crappy stock Hankook AS tires(personal opinion based on reviews), but the car pulled a .86g skid plate. Car and Driver usually brake-torque most of the performance cars for the best 0-60 times or use factory launch control to obtain those quick 0-60 times. Therefore, I am sure the stock 2015 5.0 is much quicker(sub-5 seconds) if the rear tires can hook up with a good 2000-2500rpm brake torqued launch.

View attachment 24883
View attachment 24884

View attachment 24885

Great find. The tires (Noble2) were recalled due to sidewall defects and unceremoniously replaced with the Continentals. This car (Genesis/G80) was originally tested and tuned for UHPAS tires. Considerable athleticism returns when just replacing/upgrading the tires.