Recommending the best synthetic oil

[RSPEC429]

So far, I have provided more data to prove my point, which is that TGMO is not Mobil Super. Additionally, it has a very high VI, which you have provided no info to discredit thus far.

Unless you have data showing that TGMO does not have a high VI, I believe we are done here.

 

[427435]

No. Did you even bother to read the article that I provided?

Yes, I did. How about answering my question??

A 5w-30 oil from one supplier and a 5w-30 from another supplier will have similar VI numbers. If their VI numbers were significantly different, both wouldn't be 5w-30 oils.

 

[RSPEC429]

Yes, I did. How about answering my question??

A 5w-30 oil from one supplier and a 5w-30 from another supplier will have similar VI numbers. If their VI numbers were significantly different, both wouldn't be 5w-30 oils.

This should answer your question:
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

Ranges from a low of 157 to a high of 177. I'll let you define the word "similar."

 

[EXBMWGUY]

This should answer your question:
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

Ranges from a low of 157 to a high of 177. I let you define the word "similar."

Thanks, guys. I'm outa here now, because the chart here confirms once again why I changed to the Ultra - and it was the impressively lowest NOACK of 6.6, which for the 5.0 is probably the most important number if all other numbers (namely VI and additives) are within reason.

So thank you for the ego and attitude-free facts presented here. To all others, see ya.

 

[Mark_888]

Once again, you have strayed from the original dispute. You were claiming that Mobil Super and TGMO were the same oil, and I explained that they are not. If you want to believe that they are the same oil, so be it. As I said a few posts back, quote me where I explicitly state one oil is better than the other. When you do that, I will go away.

And just for good measure, I will post more VOAs from BITOG. It is a long-shot to believe that people are falsifying VOAs over there.

The main point I was trying to make is that the Toyota Synthetic (at least at one time) was made by ExxonMobil. That seems indisputable based the information that I posted above from your favorite site (BI[N]TOG).

Since Toyota claimed that their oil (made for them by ExxonMobil) was not the same as Mobil 1, I assumed it was probably Mobil Super Synthetic, but I don't really know, and whether it is or is not the exactly the same is not central to any of my arguments. The main point is that I find it hard to believe that a motor oil made by ExxonMobil for Toyota is superior to any oil under an ExxonMobil brand name (such as Mobil 1, etc). There is a undertone that permeates BI[N]TOG that there are all kinds of reasons why a particular oil is better than Mobil 1, and many rumors surrounding that voodoo cult thinking, even though most of that is pure bunk (although I am not claiming that Mobil 1 is better than every single synthetic out there).

As far as the "tests" conducted and posted on BI[N}TOG, no I don't believe that they are accurate, although I don't claim they are intentionally skewed. Why don't you write to Toyota and get a spec sheet and MSDS from them, and we can compare same to Mobil 1 or Mobil Super Synthetics and then go from there.

Once you get a product that is the quality of Mobil 1, Pennzoil Ultra, and Castrol Edge Platinum, which I think all contain some Group IV and V components (I know Mobil 1 does), then they are pretty much the same unless one is racing a multi-million dollar vehicle at 200+ MPH. The main thing that matters is getting the right viscosity to suit the weather conditions (for startup) and to address issues like oil consumption in some engines. It is a ridiculous waste of time trying to argue one is better than the other (meanwhile, a large number of Genesis owners on this forum are using Group II conventional oil and wondering WTF we are arguing about).

 

[Mark_888]

This should answer your question:
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

Ranges from a low of 157 to a high of 177. I'll let you define the word "similar."

According to a link you posted previously:

Viscosity index can be classified as follows:

• low - below 35
• medium - 35-80
• high 80-110
• very high - above 110

So all the synthetics are off the chart for VI and the difference between 157 and 177 appears to be a nit. Also, as noted previously, the VI rating may be achieved by viscosity modifier additives (especially for Group III synthetics) that break down over time, so those numbers may not be conclusive.

As previously mentioned, VI for 5W-30 and 0W-20 are likely different, and may be more different than the differences between brands of the same viscosity rating (assuming all are synthetic with similar base stocks).

Bottom line is that forget about using VI to choose one synthetic over another. Find a synthetic with high quality base stock (oils with better base stocks typically have fewer viscosity modifiers that can break down) at a reasonable price, and pick the right viscosity for your engine.

I think Pennzoil Ultra may be at least as good as Mobil 1, but since it is no longer carried at most Walmarts (the death knell of any product), one can only special order it at about $10 a quart (at least where I live). I can get a 5-quart jug of Mobil 1 for $25 or Mobil I EP for $27, which makes Pennzoil Ultra about twice the price as Mobil 1, and I just don't think my engine would ever really notice the difference between the two (assuming I picked the correct viscosity).

 

[RSPEC429]

I have no allegiance to a certain brand of oil. I currently run M1 in all of my vehicles but am considering changing things up just for variety's sake; perhaps I will notice a difference, though it is unlikely. As far as TGMO, like I said, you can choose to not believe the numbers. I would write to them but I don't really have a use for TGMO.

 

[RSPEC429]

According to a link you posted previously:

Viscosity index can be classified as follows:

• low - below 35
• medium - 35-80
• high 80-110
• very high - above 110

So all the synthetics are off the chart for VI and the difference between 157 and 177 appears to be a nit. Also, as noted previously, the VI rating may be achieved by viscosity modifier additives (especially for Group III synthetics) that break down over time, so those numbers may not be conclusive.

As previously mentioned, VI for 5W-30 and 0W-20 are likely different, and may be more different than the differences between brands of the same viscosity rating (assuming all are synthetic with similar base stocks).

Bottom line is that forget about using VI to choose one synthetic over another. Find a synthetic with high quality base stock (oils with better base stocks typically have fewer viscosity modifiers that can break down) at a reasonable price, and pick the right viscosity for your engine.

I think Pennzoil Ultra may be at least as good as Mobil 1, but since it is no longer carried at most Walmarts (the death knell of any product), one can only special order it at about $10 a quart (at least where I live). I can get a 5-quart jug of Mobil 1 for $25 or Mobil I EP for $27, which makes Pennzoil Ultra about twice the price as Mobil 1, and I just don't think my engine would ever really notice the difference between the two (assuming I picked the correct viscosity).

Again, all I said was the TGMO has a MUCH higher VI than the other mainstream oils. It doesn't matter to either one of us, though whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[Mark_888]

I have no allegiance to a certain brand of oil. I currently run M1 in all of my vehicles but am considering changing things up just for variety's sake; perhaps I will notice a difference, though it is unlikely. As far as TGMO, like I said, you can choose to not believe the numbers. I would write to them but I don't really have a use for TGMO.

It is almost impossible to tell the difference between two quality synthetics of the same viscosity and same API/ILSAC certifications using a blind testing methodology where someone else changes the oil and doesn't tell you which one is installed. The human mind is too much influenced by what it wants to believe, rather than what is actually true. I notice that my car seems to run smoother right after I wash it, even though I know it is completely irrational to believe that is true.

 

[Gunkk]

Must be the rocker arm bushings absorbing water, making them less stiff. Must be I tell you!

On a more serious note, thanks for keeping this (mostly) civil, as some interesting points were made and useful links posted for folks like us who know (or knew) little about the differences and similarities between synthetic oils.

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[NSXNEXT]

Must be the rocker arm bushings absorbing water, making them less stiff. Must be I tell you!

On a more serious note, thanks for keeping this (mostly) civil, as some interesting points were made and useful links posted for folks like us who know (or knew) little about the differences and similarities between synthetic oils.

Next up on the agenda...the benefits of upgrading to HID blinker fluid.

My Genny is about to hit 1,000 miles soon (yeah i know i need to drive it) and I will be switching to Pennzoil Platinum 5w30.
Really wish I could find Ultra but Wallyworld has decided to stop carrying it.

 

[Mark_888]

Again, all I said was the TGMO has a MUCH higher VI than the other mainstream oils. It doesn't matter to either one of us, though whether you want to believe it or not.

1. You don't have any definite proof of those numbers other than what someone posted on BI[N]TOG. VI is a number that manufacturers publish themselves, so I would like to see it from them.
2. You cannot compare a VI for a 0W-20 oil with one for 5W-30 oil, since viscosity ratings are different as mandated by the API.
3. There is no proof whatsoever that having a higher VI makes one oil superior to another, since there are many other factors involved in evaluating a motor oil.
4. There are disadvantages to having a VI that is too high, since the oil will not flow as well when cold and still provide sufficiently high viscosity when hot (high VI equates to more stable viscosity with varying temps, which is contrary to the theory of multi-grade oil).

 

[Mark_888]

Really wish I could find Ultra but Wallyworld has decided to stop carrying it.(

Walmart stopped carrying it because it did not sell. It appears that they also stopped carrying Castrol Edge, even after Walmart launched a massive joint marketing campaign with Castrol with all kinds of special product displays for Edge at Walmart stores.

I think Pennzoil and Castrol have had a hard time marketing their premium synthetics since they previously spent so much time and money telling us how great Pennzoil Platinum and Castrol Syntec were, and then they come along and say that those products are not really the best and they now have something even better (for more money). Probably they were mainly cannibalizing sales of their other products and not getting very many to switch from Mobil 1, which is still the king of synthetic oil marketing.

You can go to Peep Boys online site and order Pennzoil Ultra, and have it sent to your local store for pickup (without shipping cost) but it will cost you about $10 per quart. I think Walmart has a similar service on their website (but not sure).

 

[NSXNEXT]

You can go to Peep Boys online site and order Pennzoil Ultra, and have it sent to your local store for pickup (without shipping cost) but it will cost you about $10 per quart. I think Walmart has a similar service on their website (but not sure).

I think Platinum will do me just fine.

 

[427435]

This should answer your question:
http://pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html

Ranges from a low of 157 to a high of 177. I'll let you define the word "similar."

Yup, I would call them similar. The difference between 157 and 177 would never be noticed in the performance or life of an engine. There are many other aspects of an oil that would be more important than an oil being at the high or low end of that range.

 

[RSPEC429]

• You don't have any definite proof of those numbers other than what someone posted on BI[N]TOG. VI is a number that manufacturers publish themselves, so I would like to see it from them.

I still don't understand how you can possibly believe that these VOAs are fake. I simply cannot fathom what would possess three different people would create their own VOAs.

Also, I'm still waiting for proof showing that what I have provided is false...

• You cannot compare a VI for a 0W-20 oil with one for 5W-30 oil, since viscosity ratings are different as mandated by the API.

So are you acknowledging the higher VI of TGMO 0W-20? If you're not, I don't get what you are trying to say because I have not compared 0W-20 to 5W-30 at all. You can continue fabricating all the out of left field arguments you want as I am enjoying seeing you fail to produce any legitimate evidence to refute anything I am saying

• There is no proof whatsoever that having a higher VI makes one oil superior to another, since there are many other factors involved in evaluating a motor oil.
• There are disadvantages to having a VI that is too high, since the oil will not flow as well when cold and still provide sufficiently high viscosity when hot (high VI equates to more stable viscosity with varying temps, which is contrary to the theory of multi-grade oil).

Is this directed at me? Or is it simply another straw man? If it is directed at me, I'm still waiting for you to quote me where I say that TGMO is better than anything else.

 

[RSPEC429]

On top of all this, Mark 888, the original argument was that TGMO and Mobil Super are the same oils. I have provided a plethora of information showing that they are not. Unless you can provide data showing that they are the same oil, this argument is over. Everything else that you add is simply you going off on some tangent.

 

[RSPEC429]

Yup, I would call them similar. The difference between 157 and 177 would never be noticed in the performance or life of an engine. There are many other aspects of an oil that would be more important than an oil being at the high or low end of that range.

So what is your point? TGMO 0W-20, as I have shown to be true, has a VI well over 200; Eneos Sustina, another 0W-20 has a VI well over 200 as well; M1 AFE 0W-20 has a VI of 173.

Can you explain why these oils of the same viscosity have such a huge variance? I wouldn't call these "similar." Of course, you can call it whatever you want.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-20_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx

 

[Mark_888]

Is this directed at me? Or is it simply another straw man? If it is directed at me, I'm still waiting for you to quote me where I say that TGMO is better than anything else.

I think it is pretty clear that you are saying by implication that the higher the viscosity index, the better, and therefore TGMO is better than other products made by ExxonMobil (which also makes TGMO for Toyota).

 

[RSPEC429]

I think it is pretty clear that you are saying by implication that the higher the viscosity index, the better, and therefore TGMO is better than other products made by ExxonMobil (which also makes TGMO for Toyota).

A few posts back, I said that I use M1 in all my vehicles and that I have no use for TGMO. I don't know why I would pontificate about an oil that I do not and will not have a use for.