It's early, but your thoughts on the 2015 Genesis?

[rminor]

I agree with your analysis, except for one thing. Not everyone is looking at comparably sized cars when shopping. Having been on this forum for quite a while, and read the logic of posters who explained which other cars they were considering besides the Genesis Sedan (including those who decided to get something else), a lot of the "other" cars a quite a bit different in size."

Likewise, RWD vs FWD vs AWD is not always what determines which cars are being considered. I have seen people trying to decide between a FWD car and a Genesis Sedan (RWD) and the drive system did not seem to be the determining factor (although it clearly is for some people). One reason for that may be that even though RWD generally handles better, and has better F/R weight distribution, FWD does have advantages in inclement weather, so it is not always cut and dried as to which is better.


I agree. I was just replying to this "The Azera is totally different in size and function. The Avalon is significantly larger than the Azera. I can't imagine someone shopping for an Avalon would consider the smaller Azera. Now, I could see someone shopping for an Accord or Camry jumping up to an Azera. They are similarly sized and functioning cars. The Azera is just much nicer."

 

[YEH]

I agree. I was just replying to this "The Azera is totally different in size and function. The Avalon is significantly larger than the Azera. I can't imagine someone shopping for an Avalon would consider the smaller Azera. Now, I could see someone shopping for an Accord or Camry jumping up to an Azera. They are similarly sized and functioning cars. The Azera is just much nicer."

The Azera has a 112" wheelbase and a length of 193.3".

The Avalon has a 111" wheelbase and a length of 195.3".

The Kia Cadenza (which is based on the Azera platform) has a 112" wheelbase and a length of 195.5".

The Camry has a 109.3" wheelbase and a length of 189.2".

The Sonata has a 110" wheelbase and a length of 189.8".

You have constantly claimed that you are not in the auto business and/or have no inside contacts to Hyundai, but you claim to know the breakdown between Genesis Sedan and Genesis Coupe sales, which Hyundai does not release. You also claim to know a lot of other stuff that is not public.

Um, everyone I have stated is from sources available to everyone (auto publications, newspapers, etc.), including the total no. of Genesis sedan sales in the US for 2012.

Just b/c you haven't seen/read it, don't assume that it's not out there (you seem to have a habit of jumping to hasty and erroneous conclusions).

I really don't care about how many 2015 Genesis are sold. I don't even care right now what options it will have, since it is not even available yet. But Hyundai has been candid about disappointing Genesis sales recently, even though it is quite heavily advertised given its low unit volumes.

Why would Hyundai be disappointed about Genesis sedan sales, even recently?

In 2012, in it's 5th year of sale in the US, Hyundai moved 23k of the Genesis sedan (total Genesis sales being around 33.9k).

In what is essentially it's last full model year of the 1G Genesis, Hyundai probably sold close to that amount (selling slightly less of both Genesis models - 32.3k).

Meanwhile, for the last couple of years of the previous gen GS, Toyota sold only around 7k w/ the last year dropping to just 3,700 in sales.

The current Infiniti M in its 4th year of sale sold 5,200 units last year.

Hyundai is doing very well w/ the Genesis sedan, esp. since it has the highest V8 take rate for a mid-size luxury sedan.

Even in its 5th year of sale, Hyundai sold more Genesis sedans in the US than they had projected (w/ the projections being calculated before the sub-prime meltdown) at 20k and probably were right on target, if not a little higher for what is the last full model year for the 1G.

What Hyundai is disappointed in is sales of the coupe, since they had projected 30k for the coupe (which was never a realistic no. considering how higher priced Asian coupes fare in the US market).

And unlike the sedan, the coupe doesn't sell either in Korea.

And if you don't care how many of the new Genesis sedan are sold, then why state that you would bet money that actual sales would fall far short of my projection?

 

[GenesisCaptain]

The Azera has a 112" wheelbase and a length of 193.3".

The Avalon has a 111" wheelbase and a length of 195.3".

The Kia Cadenza (which is based on the Azera platform) has a 112" wheelbase and a length of 195.5".

The Camry has a 109.3" wheelbase and a length of 189.2".

The Sonata has a 110" wheelbase and a length of 189.8".

Those statistics are factually accurate, and they completely miss the point. If you sit in or drive those cars, you get it. The Avalon is way bigger on the inside. The usable trunk volume in the Avalon seems (probably is) way bigger. The Avalon feels way bigger in every way. It is a comfortable people hauler. The Azera feels just a little bigger than a Camry or Accord. The back seat is tight compared to the Avalon.

 

[WowCool]

Blah Blah Blah ------------ Close this Thread........It's Dead..

 

[Mark_888]

Um, everyone I have stated is from sources available to everyone (auto publications, newspapers, etc.), including the total no. of Genesis sedan sales in the US for 2012.

No sir. Hyundai does not break out numbers for the Genesis Sedan and Coupe. You are so busted.

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Blah Blah Blah ------------ Close this Thread........It's Dead..

Click elsewhere then. I think this is entertaining.

 

[WowCool]

Entertaining! -- oh boy --

 

[GenesisCaptain]

Entertaining! -- oh boy --

I'm in Georgia. I have been snowed in for a couple days. I'll take all the simple entertainment I can get.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

I bet there are automotive investment analysts that know how to get this information.

 

[Mark_888]

I bet there are automotive investment analysts that know how to get this information.

YEH has posted photographs elsewhere in this forum (that appear to have been taken with a cell phone) that showed slides during a confidential presentation to people inside Hyundai (regarding Average Transaction Prices and other marketing data). The slides had Hyundai logos on them. YEH has some connection to Hyundai or the automotive industry that he not revealing, and which he continuously denies.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[WowCool]

Maybe YEH has a big mouth & is Full of Himself - Who Knows!!
Probably better to let certain aspects of this Post die quietly..
Nothing in these ramblings help or add to the pleasures of Hyundai Motoring..
If one needs entertainment, join the local Pole-ish Dance Club..
Im sure 1 or 2 folks on these and other motoring sites are linked in someway to manufacturers as opposed to being purely just owners..
Personally I don't care a hoot, I pay my taxes, drive within the speed limit & paid for my "G" in "Greens"" ----------------- Wise asses please leave the room & close the door behind you...............

 

[RickyBobby]

YEH has posted photographs elsewhere in this forum (that appear to have been taken with a cell phone) that showed slides during a confidential presentation to people inside Hyundai (regarding Average Transaction Prices and other marketing data). The slides had Hyundai logos on them. YEH has some connection to Hyundai or the automotive industry that he not revealing, and which he continuously denies.

YEH just makes up B.S all over with no actual facts outside of posting dimensions from Car & Driver. Truly Delusional.

Maybe YEH has a big mouth & is Full of Himself - Who Knows!!
Probably better to let certain aspects of this Post die quietly..
Nothing in these ramblings help or add to the pleasures of Hyundai Motoring..
If one needs entertainment, join the local Pole-ish Dance Club..
Im sure 1 or 2 folks on these and other motoring sites are linked in someway to manufacturers as opposed to being purely just owners..
Personally I don't care a hoot, I pay my taxes, drive within the speed limit & paid for my "G" in "Greens"" ----------------- Wise asses please leave the room & close the door behind you...............

Yup yeh is a known idiot.

With this premise, Hyundai would have failed w/ the Genesis (since the Azera is supposed to be the competitor to the Avalon).

But think it's actually the other way around; the Genesis has pretty much killed the GS and M (buyer of FWD sedans tend not to opt for RWD, esp. w/o AWD).

This is so full of garbage but typical from this guy. Ask acurazine.

 

[EXBMWGUY]

Pretty much describes me too -- except the part about driving the speed limit! :rolleyes.

 

[PMCErnie]

This thread has been soiled by folks debating over which one has the biggest Hammond organ. It furthers nothing.

 

[tompass]

Curious about the reference to the Hammond organ.

 

[ksoze]

If someone was from Hyundai or had direct access, I say let them add what they want here - ignore it if it does not interest you. If they were from Hyundai or had access to inside info, why would they admit that here?

 

[Mark_888]

If someone was from Hyundai or had direct access, I say let them add what they want here - ignore it if it does not interest you. If they were from Hyundai or had access to inside info, why would they admit that here?

I don't believe he/she has direct access, but some kind of access. Wouldn't bother me except that:

• YEH has denied it, and denied being in the automotive business
• I believe it is forum policy for vendors to disclose there affiliation

But I don't really think you are going to get any real inside info from YEH, just that he/she is not being objective. Fanboys are welcome, but they should be honest about it if they have some connection to the company.

I have been in chat sessions on Hyundai Think Tank with former CEO John Krafcik (with a group of about 20 members) and other HMA executives. They are pretty candid about their marketing strategy and trying to address "issues" that some people in the US have with the Hyundai brand name.

OTOH, people are a little too anxious IMO to try and get info about the US version of the 2015 Genesis, that may not have been decided yet, and besides, the cars won't be here until May, so what is the big rush?

 

[italiabrain]

OTOH, people are a little too anxious IMO to try and get info about the US version of the 2015 Genesis, that may not have been decided yet, and besides, the cars won't be here until May, so what is the big rush?

This makes perfect sense when the alternatives you might buy are currently already out and you might buy them now if you only knew whether the Gen had certain features at a certain price. It also makes sense if you have thousands of dollars allocated for a vehicle purchase burning a hole in your pocket for months for a vehicle you might not even end up wanting depending on those decisions. Besides, why be on the forum and discuss the future vehicle at all if you don't want to know? Just wait for the major auto mag reviews in March or April and go total blackout until then.

With production being so close I don't believe they haven't decided on features yet. They would have to have individual parts ready or at least being built by now to start production in Feb. They're not going to start production and then decide they need to order or assemble 10's of thousands of units for some feature imo.

 

[bmbutler]

I agree with you on Hyundai's horrible depreciation. You can't even compare it to a Toyota or Honda for that matter. I don't know how Hyundai can improve this. It has been that way since my first Hyundai Excel back in 1989! I am looking and researching several cars versus Genesis.

I love the new look, but my local dealer (who put swirls on my black gloss paint!!!) would have to give me the deal of the century to get me in one at this point especially after what they just did.

Price of an Avalon starts at $31,340, quite a bit lower than 2015 Genesis Sedan. That is just purchase price. When you consider higher depreciation of a Hyundai, the Genesis probably is even more expensive. Personally, I would consider an Avalon just based on Toyota reliability. That doesn't mean I would definitely buy one instead of a Genesis, but I would strongly consider a Toyota/Lexus.

When you say "Genesis killed the Avalon upon its introduction," I assume you mean it should have killed Avalon, not that it did based on actual sales numbers.

Hyundai has recently been very strong in terms of features and overall value versus all their competition. But Hyundai cannot command the same price as their competition for equivalent vehicles across their entire product line. An amazing number of Accord and Camry buyers do not even consider or test drive a Sonata. The reasons for that have a lot to do with consumer perception, but perception can become reality.

 

[rminor]

I agree with you on Hyundai's horrible depreciation. You can't even compare it to a Toyota or Honda for that matter. I don't know how Hyundai can improve this. It has been that way since my first Hyundai Excel back in 1989! I am looking and researching several cars versus Genesis.

I love the new look, but my local dealer (who put swirls on my black gloss paint!!!) would have to give me the deal of the century to get me in one at this point especially after what they just did.

The only good thing I know concerning the horrible depreciation is the great price for a used one. If I took the price I paid for my '12 and added a Hyundai extended premium warranty for a 100k miles b-b it would still be less than a '12 Avalon + it's a much nicer car. Now if I could find that warranty for a good price.