333Hp? Why is Genesis so slow?

[Mark_888]

Thankyou! Finally someone understands! I'm not bashing the Genesis. I'm just saying that I was expecting much more performance from its high powered 333hp V6. Leading me to believe that Hyundai has overrated the actual HP number.

But since everyone here is mentioning problems with transmission, throttle response etc then I guess the slow acceleration is a flaw and not an engine problem.

But one thing I know is that Hyundai's motors are known to be quite 'peaky' in that they developed peak torque at high RPMs, normally above 5000rpm and their torque curve isn't very flat. I guess that also counts.

For 2015 Genesis, HP rating is down, but torque curve is better, probably with better 0-30 performance than the current model. But the current Genesis has had some transmission and computer issues that causes delay in throttle response, especially starting from standstill or slow speeds. They may have fixed that problem for 2015, but we will have to wait to find out. Some 2015 Genesis models will have optional driving mode (sport, efficiency, etc -- I forgot exactly the categories they chose, but are somewhere in this forum). Note that 2009-2011 Genesis had a different transmission.

 

[Rey]

I owned a 2012 RSpec and sold it at 40K miles after two transmissions replaced under warranty. Now have a 2013 V6.
My experience is that the V6 has almost the same or better initial "jump"/ torque of the RSpec. I think the reason is that the 8 speed transmission in the V8 has its power/torque severely limited/reduced in first gear and maybe even in second gear. My guess is this measure was done by Hyundai to preserve the transmission. This same torque management may also exist in the V6 transmission but not to the same degree as the V8's.
I had a 2009 and 2011 V8 with 6 speed transmissions, which I modified with Sprint Boosters. That helped reponsivness a great deal. To my knowledge the Sprint Booster is not offered for the 8 speed transmissions.
I think the real power of a Genesis, be it V6 or V8, is experienced above 25 mph when passing or on roll-on. Off the line they are a bit sluggish considering their torque to weight ratio.

 

[Philth]

I owned a 2012 RSpec and sold it at 40K miles after two transmissions replaced under warranty. Now have a 2013 V6.
My experience is that the V6 has almost the same or better initial "jump"/ torque of the RSpec. I think the reason is that the 8 speed transmission in the V8 has its power/torque severely limited/reduced in first gear and maybe even in second gear. My guess is this measure was done by Hyundai to preserve the transmission. This same torque management may also exist in the V6 transmission but not to the same degree as the V8's.
I had a 2009 and 2011 V8 with 6 speed transmissions, which I modified with Sprint Boosters. That helped reponsivness a great deal. To my knowledge the Sprint Booster is not offered for the 8 speed transmissions.
I think the real power of a Genesis, be it V6 or V8, is experienced above 25 mph when passing or on roll-on. Off the line they are a bit sluggish considering their torque to weight ratio.

Agreed. The same transmission in the V-6 and R-Spec, in my opinion, isn't the way to go.

 

[genesis r spec]

I owned a 2012 RSpec and sold it at 40K miles after two transmissions replaced under warranty. Now have a 2013 V6.
My experience is that the V6 has almost the same or better initial "jump"/ torque of the RSpec. I think the reason is that the 8 speed transmission in the V8 has its power/torque severely limited/reduced in first gear and maybe even in second gear. My guess is this measure was done by Hyundai to preserve the transmission. This same torque management may also exist in the V6 transmission but not to the same degree as the V8's.
I had a 2009 and 2011 V8 with 6 speed transmissions, which I modified with Sprint Boosters. That helped reponsivness a great deal. To my knowledge the Sprint Booster is not offered for the 8 speed transmissions.
I think the real power of a Genesis, be it V6 or V8, is experienced above 25 mph when passing or on roll-on. Off the line they are a bit sluggish considering their torque to weight ratio.

well said....ive read where several members on here are using the manual version sprint booster without any problems or issues. im going to buy one and apply it to my r spec...ive used them on my previous e55 amg and 750li and it greatly improved driveability of said vehicles. throttle response is not very good on the r spec due to torque management and the poorly programmed 8 speed transmission. very slow shifts and hesitation plague this fantastic 429 hp engine. it needs to be optimized for maximum performance.

 

[YEH]

A no. of publications have gotten the same times for the R-Spec and the 550i - so the V8 Genesis isn't exactly slow.

Granted, the BMW is listed w/ fewer HP but BMW tends to underrated their engines.

While HP is a factor in 0-60 times, other things like torque, transmission shifts, throttle response and tires also factor into the equation.

Hyundai increased the torque (tho reportedly more mid-range than low-end) and if they improved the transmission shifts, throttle response and put better rubber on the wheels, then the 0-60 should improve a little (even w/ fewer HP) - but probably not by much since the new Genesis added weight.

 

[stuofsci02]

Thankyou! Finally someone understands! I'm not bashing the Genesis. I'm just saying that I was expecting much more performance from its high powered 333hp V6. Leading me to believe that Hyundai has overrated the actual HP number.

But since everyone here is mentioning problems with transmission, throttle response etc then I guess the slow acceleration is a flaw and not an engine problem.

But one thing I know is that Hyundai's motors are known to be quite 'peaky' in that they developed peak torque at high RPMs, normally above 5000rpm and their torque curve isn't very flat. I guess that also counts.

Here is the torque curve of the 2GR-FE Camry V6 engine;

I am not sure how you could indicate that hyundai motors are peaky and then post the dyno curve you did of the Camry V6 engine... That is the definition of peaky.. That TQ curve looks like a mountain top..

A flat TQ curve would be one that makes >90% of peak TQ across the RPM band IMO..

 

[tompass]

So why the decrease in HP in '15? Overrated to begin with?

 

[SR22pilot]

So why the decrease in HP in '15? Overrated to begin with?

Possibly but it's more likely that Hyundai is maturing as a company and going beyond chasing numbers. Lower HP (by only 9) in return for more low end torque is a great trade-off for the average driver. I wouldn't be surprised to see better performance in 30 to 80 passing tests.

 

[tompass]

Actually new numbers show decrease of 22HP. Somewhat significant. So perhaps they have not been entirely honest? If so, is 311 HP accurate? Of course HP rating not quite as important as performance. For me to consider the V6, I will need to compare to the GS350, E350. A6, XF, etc. Price aside.

 

[YEH]

So why the decrease in HP in '15? Overrated to begin with?

Decreased HP in favor of increased torque (which is actually more impt. for acceleration).

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[tompass]

Torque increase is not all that according to numbers released. Can it possibly make that much of a difference? Something is not making sense to me here.

 

[Mark_888]

It is not just total torque or HP that matters, but the torque or HP curve that is also very important. If torque or HP can only be achieved at very high RPM, then it is not as useful as when it can be achieved at lower RPM's.

 

[tompass]

I understand that and of course tested performance will have bear that out.

 

[Fast55]

Troll thread folks................

By the way, numerically higher gearing (3.90 VS 3.54) means a car is geared LOWER and it increases acceleration at the expense of top speed and (usually) mileage. The top 3 gears in the 8 speed are overdrive gears to compensate for the lower gearing and improve mileage at cruise.

The issue overlooked by everyone is the adaptive ECM/TCM values. The car "learns" your driving style and cruising around makes throttle and shift response "lazy". Couple that with very conservative throttle ratios in the electronic throttle and the car "seems" slow. Most luxury makes are pretty "soft" on tip in response. MB's in particular are very numb off idle because the typical customer does not want quick, jerky response, even AMG's. Now drive the car like you stole it for 15 minutes and things change dramatically. Try it.

 

[SR22pilot]

For the V8

2014 429hp 376lb-ft
2015 420hp 383lb-ft

For the V6

2014 333hp 291lb-ft
2015 311hp 293lb-ft

Sorry for the confusion. I was discussing the V8. The 6 numbers are a different story so it will depend on whether the torque comes on earlier.

Actually new numbers show decrease of 22HP. Somewhat significant. So perhaps they have not been entirely honest? If so, is 311 HP accurate? Of course HP rating not quite as important as performance. For me to consider the V6, I will need to compare to the GS350, E350. A6, XF, etc. Price aside.

 

[Jimmmmbo!]

Fast55 is definitely right about how computers in cars these days "learn" our driving habits. Whether or not the OP was experiencing this situation is an open question.

I still think we need to focus on the OP's question. Honestly, numbers on a chart are pretty useless due to the many factors (previously discussed here) that can impact how any use of the objective data can be applied to day-to-day driving. (And as an engineer, I live on convincing management with pretty charts and graphs. )

As mentioned previously, you have to learn how to drive this car to get its potential to work for you. It took me a good 6 months or more to finally realize how to use the throttle (AND brakes) to my advantage in day-to-day driving.

 

[chronic]

Troll thread folks................

By the way, numerically higher gearing (3.90 VS 3.54) means a car is geared SHORTER and it increases acceleration at the expense of top speed and (usually) mileage. The top 3 gears in the 8 speed are overdrive gears to compensate for the lower gearing and improve mileage at cruise.

The issue overlooked by everyone is the adaptive ECM/TCM values. The car "learns" your driving style and cruising around makes throttle and shift response "lazy". Couple that with very conservative throttle ratios in the electronic throttle and the car "seems" slow. Most luxury makes are pretty "soft" on tip in response. MB's in particular are very numb off idle because the typical customer does not want quick, jerky response, even AMG's. Now drive the car like you stole it for 15 minutes and things change dramatically. Try it.

FIXED!

But yeah the transmission used in the Genesis is quite a lousy unit. Does anyone know the ratios used for the 8 gears?

 

[PMCErnie]

FIXED!

But yeah the transmission used in the Genesis is quite a lousy unit. Does anyone know the ratios used for the 8 gears?

Please, just go buy a Camry.

 

[stuofsci02]

FIXED!

But yeah the transmission used in the Genesis is quite a lousy unit.

Why do you say this? The tranny is one of the smoothest easy shifting transmissions I have ever driven.

I think the only complaint one might have is that the shifts are not lightning fast.. This might be as much a design decision as anything. For 95% of my driving I prefer this.

 

[YEH]

^ It's a programming thing in favor of fuel economy - get similar complaints about the Germans on certain models/trims.