Some Comments on new Genesis G90

[8spd]

No soft close doors on a G90? Really? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I can confirm that soft close door is an available option in Korea. See soft close door in action in video below. I have yet to see a picture of panoramic roof though. Any can confirm the existence of panoramic roof on the G90 or share a picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MLrHxeD0O4E#t=85

 

[Alwaysforward]

I seen a picture somewhere and I thought all it had was a standard sunroof. I could be wrong.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

I can confirm that soft close door is an available option in Korea. See soft close door in action in video below. I have yet to see a picture of panoramic roof though. Any can confirm the existence of panoramic roof on the G90 or share a picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MLrHxeD0O4E#t=85

There are a lot of nice things the North American market does not get in any Hyundai/Genesis. Seems the rest of the world gets all the stuff that we want and are probably willing to pay for. I would hope the G90 will be as luxurious as the Koreans claim it to be. I'm sure it will look nice, but holding it against the gold standard of S-Class MB or a 750I BMW... that's some tall talkin !

 

[Mark_888]

There are a lot of nice things the North American market does not get in any Hyundai/Genesis. Seems the rest of the world gets all the stuff that we want and are probably willing to pay for.

I would dispute that, at least for the G80 or current Genesis. Maybe some are willing to pay, but most are not.

Hyundai conducts numerous surveys about the optional features to gage whether customers are willing to pay for them, and if so, how much they are willing to pay.

 

[turnne]

I would dispute that, at least for the G80 or current Genesis. Maybe some are willing to pay, but most are not.

Hyundai conducts numerous surveys about the optional features to gage whether customers are willing to pay for them, and if so, how much they are willing to pay.

at the end of the day
Hyundai is playing " catch up" with the G90
Your statement is interesting and I would change it to..."how much is a Hyundai customer willing to pay"...

That is very different from someone that just walks in the Lexus/Audi/BMW/Mercedes showroom and pays said amount for features that are either standard or typically a part of their full size cars...ie..soft close doors
As a point of fact soft close doors have been standard on the Mercedes benz S class since the North American debut of the 140 chassis in 1991

If Hyundai continues the same market positioning with the G90 as they did with the Equus
They are looking to have a car with MANY of the same attributes for 20-25% less
So..you lose some finishes, feature set , cosmetic changes, engine choices,creature comfort options as well as some general "polish" of the car
This allows a buyer to just about buy a class up for the same money
That is where the sweet spot is.
You are far more likely to get a 5 series/Eclass/Lexus GS buyer to take a look at the G90

An S class/7 series/LS460/A8 etc buyer is going to buy one of them and drive right past the Hyundai/Genesis dealership
They are not looking for a good value. They are looking for what they want

Warren

 

[Mark_888]

at the end of the day
Hyundai is playing " catch up" with the G90
Your statement is interesting and I would change it to..."how much is a Hyundai customer willing to pay"...

Why are you quoting me? I specifically was talking about features on the G80 (or current Genesis).

Obviously the G90 will have more features than the G80. Otherwise, there is no reason for the G90 to exist.

 

[turnne]

Why are you quoting me? I specifically was talking about features on the G80 (or current Genesis).

Obviously the G90 will have more features than the G80. Otherwise, there is no reason for the G90 to exist.

because of what you stated and the fact that this is a G90 thread

Warren

 

[8spd]

I seen a picture somewhere and I thought all it had was a standard sunroof. I could be wrong.

I have not seen a G90/EQ900 with panoramic roof yet. This is a highly desirable feature and a huge omission by Hyundai.

Maybe some are willing to pay, but most are not.

There are two additional factors to consider. Hyundai can add some of these features at a lower margin, thus making the overall product more appealing. They can certainly sacrifice some margin to brand the brand.

Another issue is price point. Hyundai will eventually want to push the price point of the Genesis brand higher. By offering more features, they will be able to start off at a slightly higher price point.

For me to consider the G90, Hyundai or Genesis rather will have to price it at a level that slightly undercuts the Volvo S90 and Cadillac CT6.

 

[Mark_888]

Another issue is price point. Hyundai will eventually want to push the price point of the Genesis brand higher. By offering more features, they will be able to start off at a slightly higher price point.

Eventually that may be true. But at this point they want market share, especially for the G80. That means aggressive pricing and/or incentives.

Hyundai will probably always offer features in their "packages" and there will be a finite number of those. With "packages' it is impossible to satisfy everyone in terms of getting the exact set of features that people want, and that they are willing to pay for. It will always be a compromise for every buyer.

MB and BMW will allow custom orders from Germany with a lot more flexibility of options, but I think the vast majority of US buyers just get what is in stock.

 

[turnne]

I have not seen a G90/EQ900 with panoramic roof yet. This is a highly desirable feature and a huge omission by Hyundai.



There are two additional factors to consider. Hyundai can add some of these features at a lower margin, thus making the overall product more appealing. They can certainly sacrifice some margin to brand the brand.

Another issue is price point. Hyundai will eventually want to push the price point of the Genesis brand higher. By offering more features, they will be able to start off at a slightly higher price point.

For me to consider the G90, Hyundai or Genesis rather will have to price it at a level that slightly undercuts the Volvo S90 and Cadillac CT6.

If the G90 is about $70K..it will be less than an equivalently equipped Cadillac CT6
I agree with you on the fact they cant have big feature omissions if this car is truly aimed at the full size ultra luxury crown
If they want to push the car to a higher price point...then they are going to have to recreate the Lexus entry into the US market
ie...free standing dealerships with the best service levels out there
Currently..they are far from that
My personal buying experience of my Equus was horrendous and from what I read I was not alone

Eventually that may be true. But at this point they want market share, especially for the G80. That means aggressive pricing and/or incentives.

Hyundai will probably always offer features in their "packages" and there will be a finite number of those. With "packages' it is impossible to satisfy everyone in terms of getting the exact set of features that people want, and that they are willing to pay for. It will always be a compromise for every buyer.

MB and BMW will allow custom orders from Germany with a lot more flexibility of options, but I think the vast majority of US buyers just get what is in stock.

I would say they already have market share on the Genesis/G80
Price ..IMO...is a big part of that. Its priced like a 3 series/C class

As you go up the ladder I think people are more conservative about what they buy and are less resistant to change from the "old guards"
Audi will also allow you to have a European delivery
But..its just a US spec car. There are no options on those cars that you could not get from walking into your local MB/BMW/Audi dealer
You do get a small discount from a European delivery car though
AND..I have seen people take a vacation in Europe and pick up their car and drive it there before it is shipped to the United States

If they want to play in the Ultra luxury class with the G90 and not just promote the car as being always the "cheaper option"

They are going to have to step up their game on the quality of their dealerships
I think its been proven that US luxury buyers want to be coddled and separated from the rank and file.
They also need to have more options for the car...ie...leather and trim choices as well as some very unique state of the art features
They also need a more high performance "halo" car....something like a G90 with better leather and trim.. a sports package with 21" wheels and a twin turbo V8 with 550hp etc

Warren

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[Mark_888]

I would say they already have market share on the Genesis/G80

You can never have too much market share. What they need is for people to stop having to ask" "what is that?"

Given that brand new 2015 Genesis models, even a few months ago, are selling for $12K off MSRP, they still have a ways to go in getting the market share they want for the Genesis/G80.

 

[8spd]

They are going to have to step up their game on the quality of their dealerships
I think its been proven that US luxury buyers want to be coddled and separated from the rank and file.

Warren

That is an excellent point and perhaps a critical realization by Hyundai. The dealership experience and reliability is what made Lexus special and a success story. Their current design is eroding the goodwill quickly though.

Cadillac is facing a similar problem. All the Cadillac dealerships around me are just a part of a multi-GM brand dealer. Rather than Chevy owners getting the Cadillac treatment, very often it is the other way around.

I expected the new Genesis sedan to be a huge success, but the significant discount and depreciation indicates otherwise. The new Genesis sedan might not be as sporty as the German counter parts, but it is price very favorably against the Acura TLX and Infiniti Q50.

 

[Seattle Genesis]

Is that mood lighting between the wood dash and the bottom panel?

https://youtu.be/rMRL3tcrPnc

 

[turnne]

You can never have too much market share. What they need is for people to stop having to ask" "what is that?"

Given that brand new 2015 Genesis models, even a few months ago, are selling for $12K off MSRP, they still have a ways to go in getting the market share they want for the Genesis/G80.

I dont disagree that you cant have too much
However...at least they have some market share with the genesis and IMO people know what it is readily when they see it
With the Equus not so much
and yes the discounts and resale value of neither are very good
Good for the used car buyer..not so much for a new car buyer

They also face another issue that cars over 50-60K are more firmly planted in the the traditional standard bearer brands

I hear you on the discounts
One of my local Hyundai dealer ships still has a new 2014 Equus on their lot and a couple of months ago had a new 2014 R spec Genesis still on their lot as well
I think I saw $15K off the genesis plastered on the windshield and 18K off the Equus
If I had been interested in either I would have started the negotiation at $20K off the Genesis and $25K off the Equus

Warren

 

[turnne]

That is an excellent point and perhaps a critical realization by Hyundai. The dealership experience and reliability is what made Lexus special and a success story. Their current design is eroding the goodwill quickly though.

Cadillac is facing a similar problem. All the Cadillac dealerships around me are just a part of a multi-GM brand dealer. Rather than Chevy owners getting the Cadillac treatment, very often it is the other way around.

I expected the new Genesis sedan to be a huge success, but the significant discount and depreciation indicates otherwise. The new Genesis sedan might not be as sporty as the German counter parts, but it is price very favorably against the Acura TLX and Infiniti Q50.

In the larger metro areas Cadillac typically has free standing one brand dealerships
In some smaller areas even Mercedes shares a dealership with some lower brands
I have also seen combination Toyota/Lexus dealerships in smaller populated areas

As I have said before
I dont think anyone that is going to buy the 5 series/E class is looking at the Genesis
Now...a 3 series/C class buyer. I think thats a market they can go after
Ditto with the Equus and the E class/5 series buyer
AND you will run some buyers off who are actually going to buy( vs lease) with the poor resale

However...some great dealers on 3 year old lease returns...
For what I paid for my Equus I am VERY satisfied. I did buy the 10 year wrap warranty and it remains fairly trouble free as it has this far I am good with it

I could pick it apart for certain things...but none of the com parables would have been anywhere near as low priced as I paid for the Equus

Warren

 

[Bogey99]

As I have said before
I dont think anyone that is going to buy the 5 series/E class is looking at the Genesis
Now...a 3 series/C class buyer. I think thats a market they can go after
Ditto with the Equus and the E class/5 series buyer
AND you will run some buyers off who are actually going to buy( vs lease) with the poor resale

Warren

I've read several of your comments like this about which cars the Genesis competes with and I must say that I disagree wholeheartedly.

I drive a 2002 BMW 530i that I bought new in 2001 via European delivery and did the whole drive-around-the-Alps vacation thing for a week that you mentioned. The car has been absolutely fabulous, truly fun to drive (stick shift) and hasn't been a repair problem like you hear about with BMWs.

I've been a very happy 5-Series owner for nearly 15 years, but now I'm starting to consider my next car and a new 5-Series is at the top of my list. Probably should be a slam dunk based on my positive experience, but I also want to check out the new car landscape today and other possibilities. I like what I've read about the Genesis, so I joined this forum recently to learn more.

I'm not considering a 3-Series or C Class - too small.
I'm not considering a 7-Series or S Class (or Equus/G90) - too big.
Size matters!

I don't go in thinking "I have X dollars to spend, which cars can that buy me?" Instead, I think "I want a mid-size luxury sedan, what are my choices?" Then I look at the pros and cons of each and consider the various factors, price/value being one of them where the Genesis shines. To me, the Genesis/G80 is deservedly in the mix among luxury sedans, along with the 5-Series, E Class, Audi A6, Lexus, Cadillac, Infiniti, etc. Each offers a different combination of factors that buyers will value differently, but they are certainly directly competing with each other in my mind.

Sorry for the first post rant, but I just wanted to share the thoughts of a happy 15-year BMW 5-Series owner and prospective Genesis buyer, as a contrast to your thoughts about competition for the Genesis.

 

[turnne]

I've read several of your comments like this about which cars the Genesis competes with and I must say that I disagree wholeheartedly.

I drive a 2002 BMW 530i that I bought new in 2001 via European delivery and did the whole drive-around-the-Alps vacation thing for a week that you mentioned. The car has been absolutely fabulous, truly fun to drive (stick shift) and hasn't been a repair problem like you hear about with BMWs.

I've been a very happy 5-Series owner for nearly 15 years, but now I'm starting to consider my next car and a new 5-Series is at the top of my list. Probably should be a slam dunk based on my positive experience, but I also want to check out the new car landscape today and other possibilities. I like what I've read about the Genesis, so I joined this forum recently to learn more.

I'm not considering a 3-Series or C Class - too small.
I'm not considering a 7-Series or S Class (or Equus/G90) - too big.
Size matters!

I don't go in thinking "I have X dollars to spend, which cars can that buy me?" Instead, I think "I want a mid-size luxury sedan, what are my choices?" Then I look at the pros and cons of each and consider the various factors, price/value being one of them where the Genesis shines. To me, the Genesis/G80 is deservedly in the mix among luxury sedans, along with the 5-Series, E Class, Audi A6, Lexus, Cadillac, Infiniti, etc. Each offers a different combination of factors that buyers will value differently, but they are certainly directly competing with each other in my mind.

Sorry for the first post rant, but I just wanted to share the thoughts of a happy 15-year BMW 5-Series owner and prospective Genesis buyer, as a contrast to your thoughts about competition for the Genesis.

Sure...you may go drive the G80

get back to me if you actually buy one
I think when you consider all the factors, including your history, you will probably remain right where you are

Warren

 

[jsmit86]

I find both Bogey99's post and Warren's reply interesting.

Bogey states that despite a very positive BMW 5 series experience, he will at least consider the Genesis G80.

Warren observes that he thinks Bogey will stay with BMW, despite the fact that Warrren, having owned Lexus LS, actually purchased an Equus.

In my case, the switch to Hyundai/Genesis was from Infinity. I went from a G35 to a Sonata.. (a deliberate downshift), and then from the Sonata to an Azera. My other strongest consideration at the time was ES.

Prior to the Genesis, I also considered CTS, and GS and ES. I found the Genesis to be the better value.

My take - Genesis will get SOME consideration from current top tier LUX brands, and will also likely get even more consideration from the more size or more features, etc. driven customer.

Looking back at history, Lexus owed a lot of their early growth from conquests from Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. It wasn't just grabbing S Class and 7 Series buyers out of the gate. What is Lexus' best seller? ES, not LS. "Luxury", but at a much more affordable price.

G80 will likely pull much of it's volume from people who move from ES, or Q50, and perhaps CTS and MKZ to some degree. They will also get a bit of volume from 5 Series, A6 and E Class prospects and owners. Reading through the "previously owned" threads on this forum shows this to be true.

Regarding pricing, yes there have been some incredibly deep discounts on the current Genesis. If I had waited 30 days, I could have saved about $2-3K, and probably around $4-5K now. Hyundai probably would have been better served by driving some better deals early on. Instead they let inventory build, and held some desirable color and feature combinations at port last summer and early fall.


Rome was not built in a day. They will likely increase brand value over time, and grow vs. the competition over time as well.

 

[8spd]

To Bogey99's and Warren's points, there are people that shop based on priced point just like there are people shop within a specific size segment.

There are also people seeking value (best bang for the buck) or specific sets of features. Not all buyers are the same.

The thing about brand is that some professionals feel obligated to stay with the establishment. Because buying a cheaper car implies weakness and failing business or personal finance. So, they must stay with the Bimmer and the Merc. For some, buying the cheaper car can end up being the more expensive option, at least that's how they perceive it.

 

[turnne]

I find both Bogey99's post and Warren's reply interesting.

Bogey states that despite a very positive BMW 5 series experience, he will at least consider the Genesis G80.

Warren observes that he thinks Bogey will stay with BMW, despite the fact that Warrren, having owned Lexus LS, actually purchased an Equus.

In my case, the switch to Hyundai/Genesis was from Infinity. I went from a G35 to a Sonata.. (a deliberate downshift), and then from the Sonata to an Azera. My other strongest consideration at the time was ES.

Prior to the Genesis, I also considered CTS, and GS and ES. I found the Genesis to be the better value.

My take - Genesis will get SOME consideration from current top tier LUX brands, and will also likely get even more consideration from the more size or more features, etc. driven customer.

Looking back at history, Lexus owed a lot of their early growth from conquests from Cadillac, Lincoln, etc. It wasn't just grabbing S Class and 7 Series buyers out of the gate. What is Lexus' best seller? ES, not LS. "Luxury", but at a much more affordable price.

G80 will likely pull much of it's volume from people who move from ES, or Q50, and perhaps CTS and MKZ to some degree. They will also get a bit of volume from 5 Series, A6 and E Class prospects and owners. Reading through the "previously owned" threads on this forum shows this to be true.

Regarding pricing, yes there have been some incredibly deep discounts on the current Genesis. If I had waited 30 days, I could have saved about $2-3K, and probably around $4-5K now. Hyundai probably would have been better served by driving some better deals early on. Instead they let inventory build, and held some desirable color and feature combinations at port last summer and early fall.


Rome was not built in a day. They will likely increase brand value over time, and grow vs. the competition over time as well.

I have never owned a Lexus LS
I have owned three different MB's and a couple of BMW's though...as well an an an Acura and a couple of Cadillac's in the past say 15 years
I have test driven several Lexus LS models over the years. The reason i didn't buy them?...Money
On the used market the Lexus holds resale so well that it costs as much as a Mercedes benz after 3-4 years...which is what I typically buy is certified lease returns

I highly prefer the germans cars...so at the same price its a no brainer for me
I dont really care about the status..I think Lexus has quite a name for itself these days
I am also willing to roll the dice, to an extent, on the lesser reliability of the German cars vs a Lexus
I think the service level, at the dealership, is pretty good at BMW, Mercedes and lexus...so that is a wash on the three
Why did I buy an Equus?

Purely financial reasons. I bought a 50 year old house that I am renovating and paying cash as I do so in the process

Trust me...I think that $108K Mercedes S550 4 matic with sports package is worth the money...
I just cant afford it
and it really has nothing to do with status..for me anyway

Lexus did get a lot of buyers from Cadillac and Lincolns as well as some from the Mid level BMW and Mercedes because of the value quotient of the LS
No..I dont think the 7 series and S classes were big targets back then
As I said before..the higher you go up the ladder($$) the more people are resistant to change from the established banner carriers

Comparing sales of the LS to the ES doesnt make much sense
The price was wide apart...one could say the same thing about Genesis vs Equus sales
The Lexus LS did very well. They sold 42,000 of them in the first year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS

By comparison Hyundai has only sold about 11,000 Equus since they were introduced for the 2011 model year
BIG BIG difference
Also..interesting to note that adjusted for inflation the first Lexus LS cars were about the same price as the Equus is today..sticker wise
If Hyundai wants to compete with the big boys in a real way
IMO...they have to get the Genesis cars out of the Hyundai dealership and try to recreate what Lexus did to the letter

Warren