Why not the Lexus ES350?

[Sal Collaziano]

The Lexus ES350 is a great car. No doubt about that in my mind. If I wanted a vehicle with more luxury than sport, I'd probably opt for the ES350. Softer suspension being the main reason. If I wanted an equal serving of luxury and sport - with a bit of a stiffer ride (and much better handling), I'd opt for the Hyundai Genesis.

 

[dh19440113]

Lexus ES 350 VS Hyundai Genesis VS BMW 3-series

Three of the best sudan in the 30,000 dollar price tag, each has its own loyal following and their pro and cons. Most auto journal rank them at the top three.

Hyundai Genesis is the newcomer winning consumer report best entry level luxury comparison. It used the same Lexus formula two decades ago by bring a low cost reliable RWD sedan at the 30K range and it still works. The Cabin is largest in class, standard option are cheaper, RWD handling, 290 v6 and 375 V8, and 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.

Negative: its a hyundai, they didn't introduce a luxury brand, which is very risky in the USA, where brand is important american wants to be noticed.


Lexus ES 350, Why is a upscale camry worth 30K? Lexus L is an established brand, you're expected to pay more for main brand product and lexus reliability. The interior has a more mature look with tight tolerance around seams as a luxury sedan should. The suspension is cushy soft, sound deadening used to block out harsh noise. Not all americans read car journals or even care about intricate details. Therefore many just buy the Lexus, based on its history.

BMW 3-series, rated best sports sedan in the price range and the best handling vehicle you can buy for 30K. Car journal all praise its crisp handling and sharp cornering. Very Very Fun to drive. BMW inline six has very good response and its manual shift smoothly, the suspension provide feedback to driver when pushed to the limit. (BMW ultimate driving experience trackday)
Its interior are sophisticated, the brand is well established luxury brand.
0 dollar 4 year 50,000 dollar maintainence. a friend had a rock strike his windshield which result in a crack, the windshield was replaced at no cost to the owner. 30K well spent I say.

Negative: Its interior is small, smaller than lexus which is then smaller than genesis. If you are large, well you won't be very comfortable. Not everyone care about driving experience, for those who want pury luxury choose something else.

 

[jwaters943]

I don't know where you live, but a BMW 3 and ES350 won't get you noticed. Sure, when you tell your family/friends you bought a BMW/Lexus they'll be impressed, but who cares? On the road and everywhere else they blend in because there are simply so many on the road. Some people actually, gasp, like the fact that the Genesis doesn't have some stuffy luxury brand affiliation and isn't so commonplace. It's nice to have a luxury car without the "I paid an extra $10-20k extra for the badge on the hood and a fancier dealership just to prove to everyone I'm rich and successful" stigma. Plus, if my experience is anything to go by, the Genesis garners quite a bit of positive comments from complete strangers. Something I never encountered in my BMW (528i)/Lexus (GS430). I usually got more snide comments like "oh, you drive a Bimmer!".

Just my opinion.

 

[TJPark01]

My interpretation of it has come down to a matter of taste. If you are a BMW Infiniti type guy, you will love this car. If you are a Mercedes Audi Acura guy, you may or may not. If you are a Lexus lover this car will piss you off.
I like Bimmers and I like to feel the road. If you like Lexus try the 3.8 & 17 inch tires on the V6. Of course the car looks and feels softer with those shoes. Other than the ride (subjective), the rest of the car is freaking awesome.

 

[wallymn]

I can't see someone cross shopping the Genesis and ES350.

The ES350 is comfort/luxury, it is about road isolation and floating down the road in comfort.

The Genesis is attempting to be more sport/luxury (no comments on execution)

Add to that the people I know that bought an ES were fixed on buying a "luxury brand" car, (in all 5 cases it was their first luxury car) and thus would not have considered a Hyundai.....

 

[dataguy]

I think you might look at the ES350 if you're shopping based on price primarily. Basically the question is "what upscale can I get into in the mid-30's to mid-40's?" There are probably a lot of people who would buy the 350 to avoid being one of the millions with a Camry and to hang on the Lexus brand coattails.

 

[TJPark01]

Guess I'll put my two cents in.

Anyone else feel that the ES350 has very bland styling and also just a super boring car? It makes me want to yawn and just reminds me of a Camry.

I do however, love the GS350/GS460's styling, but am super glad I bought the Genesis.

I was considering GS350. It is a very nice car, but you start putting some options in there and yikes 55k. The car is considerably smaller than the Gen and the rear end and back quarter doesn't look right. It's a great car, just not 15k better than a Genesis.

 

[Sal Collaziano]

I was considering GS350. It is a very nice car, but you start putting some options in there and yikes 55k. The car is considerably smaller than the Gen and the rear end and back quarter doesn't look right. It's a great car, just not 15k better than a Genesis.

I agree on the price.. Lexus is getting far too arrogant with their pricing these past few years.. It's going to bite them in the ass very soon..

 

[wallymn]

think the GS350 is bad, look at the price of the GS460.. prices with options push into the low 60s....

 

[TJPark01]

I agree on the price.. Lexus is getting far too arrogant with their pricing these past few years.. It's going to bite them in the ass very soon..

It already has bitten then in the arse. Collectively Toyota is starting to look like a maelstrom of cars (GM anyone?). They lost their way, and are trying to get back to their roots, with a bunch of management shake ups.

______________________________

Help support this site so it can continue supporting you!

 

[jwaters943]

I was considering GS350. It is a very nice car, but you start putting some options in there and yikes 55k. The car is considerably smaller than the Gen and the rear end and back quarter doesn't look right. It's a great car, just not 15k better than a Genesis.

The GS is arguably their worst car. It's not even $1500 better than the Genesis, let alone $15000. I had a 2006 GS430 that felt no quicker than my 3.8 Genesis (according to instrumented testing its .0 - .3 seconds quicker to 60mph), rode even worse over broken pavement, offered poor seating comfort/support on long trips, had a ridiculously small trunk opening, and was plagued w/ numerous rattles/creaks/pops. I've literally examined every minute detail of each car and the only areas I feel the Lexus is superior is a very slight advantage in available feature content, nicer wood trim, softer headliner material, and superior finishing of the trunk. In literally every other regard I find the Genesis to be equal or superior. Even refinement and ride quality (the 18" runflat tires kill ride quality). Maybe my GS was funky, but it never felt as refined as one would expect of a $60k automobile. Whenever I would have it in for service I was also more impressed/shocked by the greater refinement of my loaner vehicle (even the lowly Camry LE they gave me had a smoother ride w/ much less impact harshness).

 

[Sal Collaziano]

To that, I say, "Good luck!"... Lexus has a long way to go to get back to where they were...

It already has bitten then in the arse. Collectively Toyota is starting to look like a maelstrom of cars (GM anyone?). They lost their way, and are trying to get back to their roots, with a bunch of management shake ups.

Remember the previous GS? Now THAT was something to be proud of...

The GS is arguably their worst car. It's not even $1500 better than the Genesis, let alone $15000. I had a 2006 GS430 that felt no quicker than my 3.8 Genesis (according to instrumented testing its .0 - .3 seconds quicker to 60mph), rode even worse over broken pavement, offered poor seating comfort/support on long trips, had a ridiculously small trunk opening, and was plagued w/ numerous rattles/creaks/pops. I've literally examined every minute detail of each car and the only areas I feel the Lexus is superior is a very slight advantage in available feature content, nicer wood trim, softer headliner material, and superior finishing of the trunk. In literally every other regard I find the Genesis to be equal or superior. Even refinement and ride quality (the 18" runflat tires kill ride quality). Maybe my GS was funky, but it never felt as refined as one would expect of a $60k automobile. Whenever I would have it in for service I was also more impressed/shocked by the greater refinement of my loaner vehicle (even the lowly Camry LE they gave me had a smoother ride w/ much less impact harshness).

 

[TJPark01]

from a previous post:
Toyota's new president Akio Toyoda:
"Rather than asking, 'How many cars will we sell?' or 'How much money will we make by selling these cars?' we need to ask ourselves, 'What kind of cars will make people happy?' as well as, 'What pricing will attract them in each region?' Then we must make those cars." (gee who's strategy does that sound like?)

 

[Sal Collaziano]

from a previous post:
Toyota's new president Akio Toyoda:
"Rather than asking, 'How many cars will we sell?' or 'How much money will we make by selling these cars?' we need to ask ourselves, 'What kind of cars will make people happy?' as well as, 'What pricing will attract them in each region?' Then we must make those cars." (gee who's strategy does that sound like?)

Inquiring minds want to know... (I really don't know)

 

[jwaters943]

Remember the previous GS? Now THAT was something to be proud of...

Absolutely! I still remember the "something wicked this way comes" commercial for the 2nd-gen GS. It's performance was really quite impressive back in the day and made people re-think their preconceptions of Lexus. Today that job rests on the IS/IS-F. The GS seems to be the red-headed stepchild of Lexus' lineup.

I hope they go all-out w/ the 4th-gen and don't give us another half-baked product with mild improvements in each category. I would love to see a GS-F w/ a torque-vectoring AWD system and V8 or V10 producing around 500-550hp.

 

[dh19440113]

It already has bitten then in the arse. Collectively Toyota is starting to look like a maelstrom of cars (GM anyone?). They lost their way, and are trying to get back to their roots, with a bunch of management shake ups.

Last quarter toyota was so in the red it has not lost this much in a quarter in its entire history. Its not all due to the down turn since honda isn't suffering nearly as bad. GM ch11 of the future anyone lol

 

[Sal Collaziano]

Absolutely! I still remember the "something wicked this way comes" commercial for the 2nd-gen GS. It's performance was really quite impressive back in the day and made people re-think their preconceptions of Lexus. Today that job rests on the IS/IS-F. The GS seems to be the red-headed stepchild of Lexus' lineup.

I hope they go all-out w/ the 4th-gen and don't give us another half-baked product with mild improvements in each category. I would love to see a GS-F w/ a torque-vectoring AWD system and V8 or V10 producing around 500-550hp.

0-60 in 5.9 seconds for the 1998 Lexus GS430 was faster than the M5 unless I'm mistaken. That was really impressive. Cadillac's fastest vehicle hit 60 in 6.6 seconds.. Lexus was really on the ball back then.. And like you mentioned, that really got them recognition.. It would be great if Hyundai would get direction injection on their Tau NOW before EVERYBODY is doing 0-60 in five seconds flat..

 

[TJPark01]

0-60 in 5.9 seconds for the 1998 Lexus GS430 was faster than the M5 unless I'm mistaken. That was really impressive. Cadillac's fastest vehicle hit 60 in 6.6 seconds.. Lexus was really on the ball back then.. And like you mentioned, that really got them recognition.. It would be great if Hyundai would get direction injection on their Tau NOW before EVERYBODY is doing 0-60 in five seconds flat..

DI would necessitate the use of premium unleaded fuel. Also some have complained about the lack of low end torque. If you get these "upgrades" and then wonder why the fuel mileage is so poor, you gotta remember, life is full of compromises.

 

[ImInPA]

DI would necessitate the use of premium unleaded fuel. Also some have complained about the lack of low end torque. If you get these "upgrades" and then wonder why the fuel mileage is so poor, you gotta remember, life is full of compromises.

It is the compression ratio that dictates the need for premium fuel, not the delivery system. There is no technical reason that a DI engine could not run regular grade fuel. Premium fuel has higher octane (a combustion inhibitor) to prevent dieseling or knocking in Higher compression engines.

 

[jwaters943]

Even if it does end up requiring premium, with DI and the upcoming Hyundai-built 8-speed auto it should be capable of increasing the fuel economy by 1-2 mpg which would offset the extra cost of premium unleaded.