G70 2.0T 6MT Owner - Has anyone else with this noticed?

[egenesis12]

Do you think among Top Tier gas the brand makes any difference? In most cases, it is all coming out of the same tank at the terminal, just some different additive packages. Over the years I've used probably every major brand and never found a difference. Some engines, especially in older cars, really needed premium fuel, less today when designed to run on 87 octane.

No, just being complete with my response so as not to leave loose threads for other to pull.

 

[LandOfConfusion]

Are all of you with the manual transmission using regular 87 octane or premium gas?

i have done full tanks of both (87 and 93, but always top tier) without switching often so as to minimize mixing.
Have seen no effects with either performance or fuel efficiency. Not even the butt dyno can measure the difference.

 

[pulsar]

Do you think among Top Tier gas the brand makes any difference? In most cases, it is all coming out of the same tank at the terminal, just some different additive packages. Over the years I've used probably every major brand and never found a difference. Some engines, especially in older cars, really needed premium fuel, less today when designed to run on 87 octane.

There is a fuel terminal on my way to DFW airport. I’ve seen all brands of tankers lined up there before. When growing up I remember seeing Shell tankers, Exon (Esso for those who want to date ourselves) tankers, Shamrock, Gulf, to name a few from major oil companies had their own tankers and I think back in the day the fuel came from those manufacturers. These days, at least in my area I see no names on tankers at Shell and Exxon. They all come out of the same terminal with maybe additive packages differences. Racetrack and QT come out of the same fuel terminal too. If Top Tier rated fuels use a baseline additive package, most auto manufacturers say Top Tier fuels are recommended. That tells me fuels are basically the same if Top Tier. Sure, some fuel may have extra detergents or additive packages that offer benefits to a degree that come at a cost. Each of us decides that cost threshold and whether it’s worth it or not?

 

[MorrisGray]

Do you think among Top Tier gas the brand makes any difference? In most cases, it is all coming out of the same tank at the terminal, just some different additive packages. Over the years I've used probably every major brand and never found a difference. Some engines, especially in older cars, really needed premium fuel, less today when designed to run on 87 octane.

So what fuel grade are you using Ed?

 

[EdP]

So what fuel grade are you using Ed?

87. Tried some 93 just for fun, did not see any difference. I do use top tier. Mostly Shell because that is cheapest and readily available around here. There is a Marathon across the street from Shell and it always 10 cents higher.

 

[tarhoosier]

As a boy I recall my father discussing with his men friends and neighbors and there was agreement how one brand of gas was better than another. It may have been at that time and for those vehicles.

I also recall how valuable the information that there was a station with gas prices several cents lower. This was valuable enough to share with those he wished to impress and to conceal from those he wished to remain unaware. I think now how far I would drive to save, say, 3¢ per gallon. Not far.
Cars then had LARGE gas tanks and a full tank would save 70¢ or more. That was enough for a breakfast, a six pack of sodas or a pack of cigarettes. Those three things all cost several dollars now. The cost of gas has not increased, over time, as much as the cost of other everyday items.

 

[18fost]

I would also have to ask what tires are on the car when this happens and how much slip or bite you can read from the clutch pedal. Traction bite will big a motor, so may I ask what rpm you aim to launch at? Does the car ever scoot sideways; are you trying to avoid punching it and pulling off sideways?

 

[Greg6M/T]

The power "dip" at clutch engagement has been an annoyance to me ever since I got my G70 6MT in March. I pride myself on being able to give my passengers (usually my wife and kids) a smooth ride no matter what car I'm driving, but especially in a manual. Maybe with more time I would be able to perfect the clutch/throttle movements to deal with the dip, but after 1500 miles I was still getting a jerky ride while trying to drive relaxed and smooth.

As an experiment, I bypassed the clutch switch so the ECM always thinks the clutch is engaged. The result is pretty incredible: NO DIP! I've been driving with it this way for a week and I'm still getting used to the smooth clutch release; I keep expecting the jerkiness that I've been so disappointed with. Slow, relaxed driving is much smoother now. I also notice that when feathering the clutch as I turn up a slight incline into my garage, the engine doesn't want to die as easily if I don't give it any gas.

I like my car to always feel and drive the same way no matter what I'm doing. Being able to adjust the steering and throttle response with the drive mode switch is great, but once I've found my preferred settings, I want to keep it that way. I used to always drive in Sport mode because, as others have mentioned, the dip is less pronounced in that mode. It was an inconvenience to have to switch to Sport mode every time I started the car. Now I'm finally able to drive in the default Comfort mode without the dip. The steering is less twitchy in Comfort, which I like, but I had gotten used to the throttle calibration in Sport mode. So I've installed a BMS pedal tuner to increase the sensitivity of the throttle in Comfort mode. Now I've found that I prefer the pedal tuner set near its lowest setting for smooth driving, so my throttle is probably not quite as sensitive as the stock Sport mode.

This modification is not without any downsides; there are two side effects that I've noticed. The description of the clutch switch in the service manual states that the "signal enables ECM to cope with instant change of load condition." The first side effect is extra rev hang between upshifts. The ECM normally lets the revs fall when the clutch is disengaged. When it doesn't know that you've pressed in the clutch pedal, there is a longer delay before the revs fall. I have to say I really don't mind the rev hang. I find that when I'm driving relaxed and shifting slowly, sometimes the revs would fall a little too much. Now they might stay a little too high, but a slightly slower release of the clutch pedal after shifting takes care of that. And when driving aggressively and shifting fast, the rev hang seems to give me a little head start as I get on the throttle in the next gear.

The second side effect is the inability of the engine to rev freely when blipping the throttle for a downshift. Since the ECM still thinks the engine is under load, it revs much more slowly than it normally would with the clutch pedal pushed in. I've found that if I jab the throttle all the way to the floor, I can get just enough increase in engine speed for a smooth downshift. When trying to downshift very quickly, the revs probably won't climb quite high enough for a perfectly smooth shift. I'm still testing this aspect of the modification and haven't had the car in all driving conditions, such as a twisty mountain road.

These two side effects definitely take some getting used to, in a similar way that driving with the dip requires some different technique. I'm going to keep testing the car this way, and if I can get used to the side effects, I plan to keep this modification permanently. I wanted to share this as something people can try if they just can't get used to that power dip after clutch engagement. It does require a little wiring harness surgery that some people might not be comfortable with, but it can be put back the way it was pretty easily.

 

[canucklehead604]

^ props for taking a stab at this, and troubleshooting a fix that works for you. i'll stay tuned for more updates. not sure if i'll go that route for now, but it is good to know there is an option.

i almost never drive in comfort due to the dip being most pronounced for me. eco is actually a bit better, so i'll use eco while my car warms up to reduce driveline lash and general harshness. once things are up to temps i always switch to sport, unless the wife and kids are in the car...then only sometimes. of note - my wife prefers sport mode the best when she's driving the G70. she prefers the responsiveness, as do i.

 

[LandOfConfusion]

The power "dip" at clutch engagement has been an annoyance to me ever since I got my G70 6MT in March. I pride myself on being able to give my passengers (usually my wife and kids) a smooth ride no matter what car I'm driving, but especially in a manual. Maybe with more time I would be able to perfect the clutch/throttle movements to deal with the dip, but after 1500 miles I was still getting a jerky ride while trying to drive relaxed and smooth.

As an experiment, I bypassed the clutch switch so the ECM always thinks the clutch is engaged. The result is pretty incredible: NO DIP! I've been driving with it this way for a week and I'm still getting used to the smooth clutch release; I keep expecting the jerkiness that I've been so disappointed with. Slow, relaxed driving is much smoother now. I also notice that when feathering the clutch as I turn up a slight incline into my garage, the engine doesn't want to die as easily if I don't give it any gas.

I like my car to always feel and drive the same way no matter what I'm doing. Being able to adjust the steering and throttle response with the drive mode switch is great, but once I've found my preferred settings, I want to keep it that way. I used to always drive in Sport mode because, as others have mentioned, the dip is less pronounced in that mode. It was an inconvenience to have to switch to Sport mode every time I started the car. Now I'm finally able to drive in the default Comfort mode without the dip. The steering is less twitchy in Comfort, which I like, but I had gotten used to the throttle calibration in Sport mode. So I've installed a BMS pedal tuner to increase the sensitivity of the throttle in Comfort mode. Now I've found that I prefer the pedal tuner set near its lowest setting for smooth driving, so my throttle is probably not quite as sensitive as the stock Sport mode.

This modification is not without any downsides; there are two side effects that I've noticed. The description of the clutch switch in the service manual states that the "signal enables ECM to cope with instant change of load condition." The first side effect is extra rev hang between upshifts. The ECM normally lets the revs fall when the clutch is disengaged. When it doesn't know that you've pressed in the clutch pedal, there is a longer delay before the revs fall. I have to say I really don't mind the rev hang. I find that when I'm driving relaxed and shifting slowly, sometimes the revs would fall a little too much. Now they might stay a little too high, but a slightly slower release of the clutch pedal after shifting takes care of that. And when driving aggressively and shifting fast, the rev hang seems to give me a little head start as I get on the throttle in the next gear.

The second side effect is the inability of the engine to rev freely when blipping the throttle for a downshift. Since the ECM still thinks the engine is under load, it revs much more slowly than it normally would with the clutch pedal pushed in. I've found that if I jab the throttle all the way to the floor, I can get just enough increase in engine speed for a smooth downshift. When trying to downshift very quickly, the revs probably won't climb quite high enough for a perfectly smooth shift. I'm still testing this aspect of the modification and haven't had the car in all driving conditions, such as a twisty mountain road.

These two side effects definitely take some getting used to, in a similar way that driving with the dip requires some different technique. I'm going to keep testing the car this way, and if I can get used to the side effects, I plan to keep this modification permanently. I wanted to share this as something people can try if they just can't get used to that power dip after clutch engagement. It does require a little wiring harness surgery that some people might not be comfortable with, but it can be put back the way it was pretty easily.

Thanks, @Greg6M/T . . . much appreciated. Please keep us updated. Ironically, I have recently been considering starting a new thread on this topic, not so much to solicit DIY fixes, but to explore the possibility that the ECM programming constitutes a design defect. In particular, I suspect the need to counteract the programmed dip in throttle will result in premature clutch plate wear.

Good luck, and looking forward to the updates.

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[Greg6M/T]

Thanks, @Greg6M/T . . . much appreciated. Please keep us updated. Ironically, I have recently been considering starting a new thread on this topic, not so much to solicit DIY fixes, but to explore the possibility that the ECM programming constitutes a design defect. In particular, I suspect the need to counteract the programmed dip in throttle will result in premature clutch plate wear.

Good luck, and looking forward to the updates.

I would love for the dip to be gone without any side effects. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help in your quest to get Genesis to update the programming.

Unfortunately, I've found that unless it's safety related, manufacturers won't spend any money to retroactively fix a complaint that their customers have with their product.

 

[Greg6M/T]

Quick update: I'm going to keep my clutch switch bypassed. The extra rev hang on the upshifts doesn't bother me, and I've gotten used to the delayed revving during downshifts. The downshift timing is different; I catch the revs on the way up instead of blipping to a high rpm and catching them on the way down. I can still shift smoothly, which is what I care about. If you do a lot of heal-and-toe downshifting or double clutch your downshifts, then you probably wouldn't want to bypass your clutch switch. But for me, it's well worth the side effects to be able to drive smoothly and banish the power "dip" for good.

 

[KWG70owner]

^ yes, this has been discussed. the 'lag' is worst in Comfort mode. note sure why Genesis tuned it this way, but that's the deal for now. in Eco, and particularly Sport, the lag is almost completely eliminated. switching drive modes is the 2nd thing i do after firing up every day. most driving is done in Sport. Eco is nice with passengers since it smooths out throttle response and driveline lash.

in CAD there is a TSB for a 2.0T ECU retune which is said to improve driveability as well as increased boost/power. i will get this ECU update when i go in for my first complimentary service.

I haven't found anything regarding the TSB in canada, (and I work for the dealer). Do you have an update on this? Maybe there's something I'm missing.... My manual is a 2021 and experiences the same thing.

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KWG70owner]

Quick update: I'm going to keep my clutch switch bypassed. The extra rev hang on the upshifts doesn't bother me, and I've gotten used to the delayed revving during downshifts. The downshift timing is different; I catch the revs on the way up instead of blipping to a high rpm and catching them on the way down. I can still shift smoothly, which is what I care about. If you do a lot of heal-and-toe downshifting or double clutch your downshifts, then you probably wouldn't want to bypass your clutch switch. But for me, it's well worth the side effects to be able to drive smoothly and banish the power "dip" for good.

I'm having my dealer put through a request for a re-tune based on driving safety. If I'm caught in a snowy/ icy intersection and try to accelerate and get nothing but bog, it could result in a collision. Here's to hoping..... I just see a lawsuit occurring in that instance against the manufacturer that intentionally programmed in a way of retarding power that can't be overridden like T/C or ESP with a button push.

 

[canucklehead604]

I haven't found anything regarding the TSB in canada, (and I work for the dealer). Do you have an update on this? Maybe there's something I'm missing.... My manual is a 2021 and experiences the same thing.

Any help or info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KWG70owner]

View attachment 34593

That's awesome, thanks! I'll see where it gets me. Did it solve the issue?

 

[Ribs6MT]

Recently bought the 6 M/T and ran headlong into this incredibly annoying power dip issue in 1st gear. I don't get all the complaining about the clutch or the shifter - they're not the most amazing, but certainly not bad. The shifter, in particular, feels quite positive as you're getting in and out of gear, so I've grown to like it, even if it's rather springy.

But, I just can't get over the power dip in 1st gear. The separate turbo lag isn't great, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. That power dip, though...I can consistently avoid it if I accelerate really slowly or as fast as possible. Anything in between and the dip is super noticeable, even in sport. As everyone has noted, comfort mode is the worst offender, but it's present in all modes for me. I'll see if I can get the dealer to install the ECU update you've all flagged, but if they can't fix this (I'm in the US), I don't know if I can tolerate it long-term. Sigh. Not how I want to feel about my new car.

 

[KWG70owner]

Recently bought the 6 M/T and ran headlong into this incredibly annoying power dip issue in 1st gear. I don't get all the complaining about the clutch or the shifter - they're not the most amazing, but certainly not bad. The shifter, in particular, feels quite positive as you're getting in and out of gear, so I've grown to like it, even if it's rather springy.

But, I just can't get over the power dip in 1st gear. The separate turbo lag isn't great, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. That power dip, though...I can consistently avoid it if I accelerate really slowly or as fast as possible. Anything in between and the dip is super noticeable, even in sport. As everyone has noted, comfort mode is the worst offender, but it's present in all modes for me. I'll see if I can get the dealer to install the ECU update you've all flagged, but if they can't fix this (I'm in the US), I don't know if I can tolerate it long-term. Sigh. Not how I want to feel about my new car.

There is a system outage with Hyundai / Genesis, but there seems to be a fix at least in Canada.

I'll make sure to post once I've got mine done.

 

[Ribs6MT]

There is a system outage with Hyundai / Genesis, but there seems to be a fix at least in Canada.

I'll make sure to post once I've got mine done.

Much appreciated!

 

[KWG70owner]

So... System back up but I'm being told that the issue is normal. Fighting with Genesis to acknowledge that it's a safety concern. This will make me sell my car after 6-8 months.