Steering on Curves - Sticks

[SuperKing]

I find I have to fight the wheel on the highway when it rains. The LKAS thinks the trail left in the water by the car in front of me is a lane line.

 

[ilateapex]

My fathers G80 is having this problem now. The dealer can not seem to understand or duplicate the problem. Which dealers did you guys use that decided to replace the rack? Maybe I can get them to contact those dealers and understand the problem better.

Thanks,
Michael

 

[DrWilliamR1]

G80 Sport 2018: In moderate curves, the steering changes abnormally, almost a slight wallowing feel. Wonder if it's the tires, which do NOT get rave reviews.

Wallowing in moderate curves started in my 2018 Genesis G80 Sport at about 13K miles, can't always reproduce or demonstrate this, service manager couldn't reproduce when he drove, BUT IT IS A DEFINITE DIFFERENCE and does not inspire confidence.

 

[sheffdog]

My friend owns a 2015 Hyundai Genesis with a similar issue. Here's a video that we took of the problem.

 

[sheffdog]

Here is a similar issue on a 2015 Genesis.

 

[Markymark]

My friend owns a 2015 Hyundai Genesis with a similar issue. Here's a video that we took of the problem.

That is unacceptable. Sounds like a sensor problem to me though.

 

[Suburbazine]

It happens to me sometimes. I honestly don't think it's a "problem" per se, but more of a logic issue in the EPS handling of torque demand. On a normal recirculating hydraulic power steering rack, road feedback is handled in a natural fashion. On EPS, you don't have hydraulic drives, it's basically a servo with a computer controller deciding how much road force to give back to the driver. If you input torque to the steering wheel, the controller boosts the servo output to match road conditions with some damping for input feedback. On a longer sweep, the logic that dictating road damping can "hold" the steering wheel given lack of torque input to pull out. The car won't naturally center up unless the EPS controller is allowing the road force to input to the steering wheel.

Since I don't have a direct way to view Hyundai's logic controlling the EPS, the best I can do is guess at what's happening. It's possible to have this issue if the steering angle sensor isn't perfectly aligned, LKAS is in line hold mode or if the rack is just plain bad.

 

[Markymark]

It happens to me sometimes. I honestly don't think it's a "problem" per se, but more of a logic issue in the EPS handling of torque demand. On a normal recirculating hydraulic power steering rack, road feedback is handled in a natural fashion. On EPS, you don't have hydraulic drives, it's basically a servo with a computer controller deciding how much road force to give back to the driver. If you input torque to the steering wheel, the controller boosts the servo output to match road conditions with some damping for input feedback. On a longer sweep, the logic that dictating road damping can "hold" the steering wheel given lack of torque input to pull out. The car won't naturally center up unless the EPS controller is allowing the road force to input to the steering wheel.

Since I don't have a direct way to view Hyundai's logic controlling the EPS, the best I can do is guess at what's happening. It's possible to have this issue if the steering angle sensor isn't perfectly aligned, LKAS is in line hold mode or if the rack is just plain bad.

Thanks, that's very helpful. Still, does sound a bit like the MCAS system on the 737 Max to me.

 

[Flyingcat23]

It happens to me sometimes. I honestly don't think it's a "problem" per se, but more of a logic issue in the EPS handling of torque demand. On a normal recirculating hydraulic power steering rack, road feedback is handled in a natural fashion. On EPS, you don't have hydraulic drives, it's basically a servo with a computer controller deciding how much road force to give back to the driver. If you input torque to the steering wheel, the controller boosts the servo output to match road conditions with some damping for input feedback. On a longer sweep, the logic that dictating road damping can "hold" the steering wheel given lack of torque input to pull out. The car won't naturally center up unless the EPS controller is allowing the road force to input to the steering wheel.

Since I don't have a direct way to view Hyundai's logic controlling the EPS, the best I can do is guess at what's happening. It's possible to have this issue if the steering angle sensor isn't perfectly aligned, LKAS is in line hold mode or if the rack is just plain bad.

I have a 2017 G90 and the vehicle occasionally fails to release to the center position when transitioning out of a left steering maneuver at low speed (less than 10 mph). Suburbazine, how does your theory hold up when the problem only happens in a left steering maneuver situation? Fortunately I’m leasing my car and may jettison this vehicle because of this dangerous issue.

 

[Suburbazine]

I have a 2017 G90 and the vehicle occasionally fails to release to the center position when transitioning out of a left steering maneuver at low speed (less than 10 mph). Suburbazine, how does your theory hold up when the problem only happens in a left steering maneuver situation? Fortunately I’m leasing my car and may jettison this vehicle because of this dangerous issue.

Does the car fight you when you center up (turn clockwise) or does it just hold the turn for a quick bump essentially? At very low speeds the rack is in max gain mode, so the servo is going to be set to it's highest assist state. If there's an internal logic issue, it may have so much "assist" that a zero input situation would not naturally center up.

It's also possible to have a bad steering rack, where when you go to center up the servo pulls too much power and the electronics reset, causing a loss of torque and similar resistance to recentering. You'll usually hear/feel this as a chattering in the steering though.

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[Flyingcat23]

Does the car fight you when you center up (turn clockwise) or does it just hold the turn for a quick bump essentially? At very low speeds the rack is in max gain mode, so the servo is going to be set to it's highest assist state. If there's an internal logic issue, it may have so much "assist" that a zero input situation would not naturally center up.

It's also possible to have a bad steering rack, where when you go to center up the servo pulls too much power and the electronics reset, causing a loss of torque and similar resistance to recentering. You'll usually hear/feel this as a chattering in the steering though.

Thanks for your reply. In response to your question, the steering wheel holds/locks in the left turn position until I exert force to free it. I neither hear nor feel any chattering in the steering. Thanks again.

 

[MAM]

When driving on a winding road (mainly left winding) the steering my Genesis will stick to the point you have to yank it back to center. Of course the dealer cannot figure it out. Has anyone experienced this issue?

I had a similar issue and it turned out to be the variable assist motors in the power steering. Took several visits to diagnose it, ultimately a test drive with hard S turns did the trick. They replaced the entire steering assembly under warranty. Drives great now.

 

[TM859]

I had the same issue with my 2016 that started right after my 18K-mile maintenance visit. At my 24K-mile maintenance visit, I asked them to check the steering because of the sticking issue when going around curves. The tech drove the car, first with him driving and then with me driving, and we weren't able to replicate it to the degree where he could really feel what I'd been experiencing. At first he thought it had something to do with the lane keep assist, but I'd already tested that and it was the same regardless of whether it was on or off. He asked when it started and I said it was sometime after my last visit, and he suggested it might be the tires, since I'd had them rotated on the previous visit. He rotated the tires again and told me to bring it back if it didn't fix the problem. I didn't believe it would help, but it improved dramatically after the rotation, so I assume in my case, it may be a problem with the tires. I guess I'll know for sure when the tires are rotated back.

 

[TheStressMachine]

For those looking for more examples from a video, here are two separate incidents I recorded, taking mine to the dealer shortly.

 

[MAM]

For those looking for more examples from a video, here are two separate incidents I recorded, taking mine to the dealer shortly.

I had the same issue, they replaced the entire steering assembly. Fixed with no further issues. They said it was the variable assist power steering motors that were seizing up.

 

[TheStressMachine]

Late to the game but posting for reference, here's my 2018 G80 with the problem

 

[G-917645]

I had the same issue with my 2016 that started right after my 18K-mile maintenance visit. At my 24K-mile maintenance visit, I asked them to check the steering because of the sticking issue when going around curves. The tech drove the car, first with him driving and then with me driving, and we weren't able to replicate it to the degree where he could really feel what I'd been experiencing. At first he thought it had something to do with the lane keep assist, but I'd already tested that and it was the same regardless of whether it was on or off. He asked when it started and I said it was sometime after my last visit, and he suggested it might be the tires, since I'd had them rotated on the previous visit. He rotated the tires again and told me to bring it back if it didn't fix the problem. I didn't believe it would help, but it improved dramatically after the rotation, so I assume in my case, it may be a problem with the tires. I guess I'll know for sure when the tires are rotated back.

UPDATE: 6/28/20, The problem has recently gotten worse again, so during my 30K service visit, I asked that they check it again. They said I had some kind of leak in the rack and pinion steering system and they’re replacing a part tomorrow that’s supposed to fix the problem. We’ll see. If it doesn’t, at least I have the info from this thread I can show them.

 

[TM859]

As an update to my previous post, it appears that the problem is NOT related to my tires since the problem has recently gotten worse again. I had my car in for routine service last week and asked them to look at it again. This time, they found a leak in the rack and pinion steering system and said they were going to fix it under warranty. Hopefully, it fixes the problem, but if not, I’ll refer them to this thread, since it’s pretty clear this is not an uncommon problem and maybe the videos and repairs done for other owners will point them in the right direction,

 

[Suburbazine]

As an update to my previous post, it appears that the problem is NOT related to my tires since the problem has recently gotten worse again. I had my car in for routine service last week and asked them to look at it again. This time, they found a leak in the rack and pinion steering system and said they were going to fix it under warranty. Hopefully, it fixes the problem, but if not, I’ll refer them to this thread, since it’s pretty clear this is not an uncommon problem and maybe the videos and repairs done for other owners will point them in the right direction,

They Found a leak in the R/P? What was it, grease seepage? This rack doesn’t use fluid like hydraulic racks.

 

[carguy75]

It happens to me sometimes. I honestly don't think it's a "problem" per se, but more of a logic issue in the EPS handling of torque demand. On a normal recirculating hydraulic power steering rack, road feedback is handled in a natural fashion. On EPS, you don't have hydraulic drives, it's basically a servo with a computer controller deciding how much road force to give back to the driver. If you input torque to the steering wheel, the controller boosts the servo output to match road conditions with some damping for input feedback. On a longer sweep, the logic that dictating road damping can "hold" the steering wheel given lack of torque input to pull out. The car won't naturally center up unless the EPS controller is allowing the road force to input to the steering wheel.

Since I don't have a direct way to view Hyundai's logic controlling the EPS, the best I can do is guess at what's happening. It's possible to have this issue if the steering angle sensor isn't perfectly aligned, LKAS is in line hold mode or if the rack is just plain bad.

I think you are correct.

It seems like the driver will have to bring the steering wheel on center after making a turn with this steering system which make sense since no one really should take their hands off the steering wheel while making a turn. It may be a normal characteristic(undesired by most)) of the electric steering system, unless the steering wheel is stuck in position after a turn and fight driver input. If so, then the system is most diffidently malfunctioning.

Very good explanation.