3.8 Oil Level on New Genesis Shows High

[Sayantsi]

Fwiw, you don't have to be exactly at the "F" on the dipstick, just between the "F" and the "add oil" line, or "L" - its a range of one quart that you can be safely in. I'd rather be a little low but in the range of the dip stick than over the "F" mark because you don't want to risk blowing seals or frothing the oil due to overfill.

 

[Mark_888]

Fwiw, you don't have to be exactly at the "F" on the dipstick, just between the "F" and the "add oil" line, or "L" - its a range of one quart that you can be safely in. I'd rather be a little low but in the range of the dip stick than over the "F" mark because you don't want to risk blowing seals or frothing the oil due to overfill.

The problem is the cars come from the factory with it showing at least 1/2 quart over F when oil drains from filter. It shows the same when adding the 5.5 quarts specified in the owners manual for drain and fill.

So the problem is that one doesn't really know what the level is. If it reads 4.5 quarts (and shows 1/2 quart low on dipstick) it may be really a full quart low if the measurement is influenced by the oil draining back from the filter.

So while your observation is generally correct, and your help is appreciated, it doesn't resolve the dilemma because we don't know what the real dipstick reading is. One would think that Hyundai could issue a bulletin on this to clarify the situation, since not even dealer techs agree on this.

 

[TJPark01]

This is a tricky topic. A few manufacturers have addressed this problem with their service departments by listing 3 oil change and capacity requirements. They will specify,
Oil change w/o oil filter change
Oil change with oil filter change
Dry fill.
All three quantities are different, and every car is different. I'm not sure about the 3.8. I know in the owners manual it states 5.49 US qts. I am assuming this number is the total volume. With that being said. What I generally do is fill a car 1/2 a quart short and drive the car for a week or so, always checking for leaks. After a couple of days or a week, I check the oil dipstick in the morning. Not only do I think this is the best way to get a true reading, but the oil has been cycled enough where it develops a certain color or is a bit dirtier or more viscous, what ever you want to call it, it's easier to read. When you try and get a reading on a new change the oil is so clean and thin it just doesn't stick to the dipstick properly and starts playing tricks with your vision. On the V8, I put in 6.4 US quarts (owners manual states 6.87). It was the perfect amount. On my Ford Expedition the manual states 7. I put in 6.5, it was short, needed the full 7.

 

[Mark_888]

Here is the info from the HMA Service Website on the 3.8 V6:

Engine Oil quantity
Total : 6.0 L (6.34 US qt, 5.27 lmp qt)
Oil pan : 5.5 L (5.81 US qt, 4.83 lmp qt)
Drain and refill including oil filter :
5.2 L (4.49 US qt, 4.57 lmp qt)

The 4.49 quarts is obviously a typo, since if you convert 5.2 L to quarts you get 5.49 US quarts. Also, 4.57 Imperial quarts is exactly 5.49 US quarts.

With all due respect, people who don't have the 3.8 V6 should stop giving advice on this subject (unless you work for Hyundai and have obtained an accurate answer from HMA on the subject). I am extremely experienced in changing my own oil and reading dipsticks, as are other V6 owners who have commented on this subject in this forum (and some who have sent me PM's).

The dipstick on the V6 is almost impossible to read if you don't remove the filler cap to relieve pressure, otherwise oil is sucked up on the dipstick when you pull it out.

It doesn't do any good to say one will fill the crankcase 1/2 quart short when no one seems to know what a 1/2 quart short is (either in terms of amount of oil or in terms of a dipstick reading).

Now that I can at least get a consistent reading on the dipstick (by taking off the oil filler cap to relieve pressure), that is some improvement, but every V6 owner I have talked to (except one person) says it reads at least 1/2 quart high from the factory fill. We also know that when the oil filter cap on top of the engine is removed, there is no oil in there (after the engine stops). So is the extra oil on the dipstick reading OK, or is actually supposed to be no higher than F after the oil drains backs from the oil filter? Only Hyundai can answer that (and I don't mean a Hyundai dealer tech with an "opinion".

This is the kind of sloppiness that causes one to doubt whether Hyundai is really serious about the upscale market. They often look like bozos.

 

[Mark_888]

On the V8, I put in 6.4 US quarts (owners manual states 6.87). It was the perfect amount. On my Ford Expedition the manual states 7. I put in 6.5, it was short, needed the full 7.

On every other car I have owned or changed the oil on (including cars I did not own) the manufacturer spec for the amount of oil needed for drain and refill was either right on the money or very close. Being 1/2 quart off is a bad sign. Are people who work for Hyundai a bunch of idiots that cannot even figure out how much oil needs to be added after an oil change?

What was your dipstick reading when you bought the car new (factory fill reading)?

 

[TJPark01]

On every other car I have owned or changed the oil on (including cars I did not own) the manufacturer spec for the amount of oil needed for drain and refill was either right on the money or very close. Being 1/2 quart off is a bad sign. Are people who work for Hyundai a bunch of idiots that cannot even figure out how much oil needs to be added after an oil change?

What was your dipstick reading when you bought the car new (factory fill reading)?

Top end of F. Reading the stick was pretty easy. Not the best I've seen but not the worse.

 

[GripperDon]

Top end of F. Reading the stick was pretty easy. Not the best I've seen but not the worse.

As the sig says 4.6 not 3.8 ! so it seems that the reply may not be applicable to the 3.8. See Mark 888 comment above.

 

[Mark_888]

As the sig says 4.6 not 3.8 ! so it seems that the reply may not be applicable to the 3.8. See Mark 888 comment above.

I did ask TJPark01 (the most interesting man in the world) about the level of the factory fill on his V8 Tau was when he checked the dipstick, so I appreciate his response. The problem (one of the problems) with the V6 is that factory fill was at least 1/2 quart high (maybe more) on my car (20 miles on OD) and others have reported the same (although one person said his was one quart low).

 

[mrgenesis2009]

I apologize for bring this up again but I can't find any definite answers from Hyundai or online.

I still didn't like what I was seeing in terms of oil level reported by the dip stick. I decided to change my oil once again at 2865 miles. This is the third time I changed the oil. This time I added only 4 us quarts and then lowered the car. I pulled into my garage and I loosened the oil filler cap and checked the oil and it showed right at half between L and F. I added 1/2 quart (total ~4.5) and let the engine run for a few minutes then shut it down and let it sit for about 5 minutes and I show it right on "F" now. I checked again the HMAService website and it still says the following:

Engine Oil quantity
Total : 6.0 L (6.34 US qt, 5.27 lmp qt)
Oil pan : 5.5 L (5.81 US qt, 4.83 lmp qt)
Drain and refill including oil filter :
5.2 L (4.49 US qt, 4.57 lmp qt)

The last line is confusing. 5.2L really equates to 5.49 US qts according to the conversions. I assumed L stands for Liters.

5.2 Liters = 5.494778694855755 Quarts

The document from Hyundai states the following.

"Do not fill with engine oil above the “F” mark."

Looking at all the data one would think that the 4.49 is a misprint. If fact it looks like the only thing correct in the data above is the 4.49 US qts part.

Has anyone else been able to confirm this? The main reason I was so torn was because my car came overfilled about 1/2-3/4 qt from the factory when I checked it at 38 miles. So I assumed since it was showing high and putting in 5.5 L put the level right back to where it was from the factory, I thought it was supposed to be that way.

Can someone who has filled their enginel with 5.49 US qt and their dip stick reads "F" please post the dip stick part number stamped on the metal?

Ben

 

[mrgenesis2009]

I just checked the oil again after about three hours and it shows about 1/4 qt over as expected (oil draining back from the oil filter). So for me it looks like 4.5 qts (this is not a misprint) is what I need to put in. To take it one step further, I just ordered a 5 quart measuring container to verify that the 5 quart jugs of Mobil 1 are in fact 5 US Quarts. Either Hyundai installed the wrong dip stick or they made a mistake with their math OR the Mobil 1 jugs are more than they say they are. For now, I'll just go with what the dip stick says.

Ben

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[mrgenesis2009]

I just got off the phone with Hyundai Service hotline and they have no clue about the descrepency in oil amounts. They "thanked" me soo much and said they would look into it.

I seriously doubt that they don't know about this. The oil amount is correct in the 2010 service manual online but not in the 2009 manual. Someone modified the service manual so someone knows about it. It was also corrected to match the 5.2L amount of 5.49 US qt. According to the stick it is way above Full.

So in the end, I still can't be sure exept to go with what the stick says and ignore what all the documentation says.

***Sigh***

 

[OBCT]

Thanks for the heads up, mrgenesis2009. Even though I've got a V8, I find it good to keep up on this kind of stuff.

Speaking of the V8, has anyone experienced an oil level discrepancy with it?

 

[Mark_888]

Speaking of the V8, has anyone experienced an oil level discrepancy with it?

The 3.8 V6 oil filter is mount on top, open end down. The oil drains out the filter into the crankcase after the engine stops.

The 4.6 V8 filter (which is the same as the V6) is mounted under the engine, and it does not drain into the crankcase.

 

[OBCT]

The 3.8 V6 oil filter is mount on top, open end down. The oil drains out the filter into the crankcase after the engine stops.

The 4.6 V8 filter (which is the same as the V6) is mounted under the engine, and it does not drain into the crankcase.

I'm not sure if I understand.

I know the mounting configuration is different between the V6 and V8 (thanks to yourself in past threads, Mark). Since we were on the topic of oil level discrepancy on the V6, I was wondering if anyone here has ever experienced any type of similar oil level discrepancy under the hood of the V8. The pessimistic side of me thinks it could be possible that both versions of the '09 manual were somehow written "wrong", while the optimistic side hopes the V8 got away error-free.

Just wondering, is all.

 

[Mark_888]

I'm not sure if I understand.

I know the mounting configuration is different between the V6 and V8 (thanks to yourself in past threads, Mark). Since we were on the topic of oil level discrepancy on the V6, I was wondering if anyone here has ever experienced any type of similar oil level discrepancy under the hood of the V8. The pessimistic side of me thinks it could be possible that both versions of the '09 manual were somehow written "wrong", while the optimistic side hopes the V8 got away error-free.

Just wondering, is all.

I do not believe that there is any real descrepancy in the amount shown in owners or shop manual other than one obvious typo. The 4.49 US Quarts for the V6 should be 5.49 US Quarts. This is obvious when you look at amount shown in Liters and Imperial Quarts and do the conversion. It is also obvious when you look at the amounts show for "total" and "oil pan", not just "drain and fill".

The real problem on the V6 is twofold:

1. When the dipstick is pulled out, there there is apparently so much suction generated that oil is pulled up the dipstick, making an accurate reading extremely difficult, if not impossible (and it doesn't matter how many years of experience one has reading dipsticks on other cars). This can be mitigated to some degree by removing the oil filler cap to relieve pressure prior to removing the dipstick.
2. Oil drains back into crankcase from the top mounted oil filter when the engine is shut off.

 

[OBCT]

I gotcha. Thanks.

 

[mrgenesis2009]

The service manual does state all of the different filling amounts and all the conversions are indeed correct except for the 4.49 part of the drain and fill portion. The only part that seems to be wrong is everything except the 4.49 part for my 2009 V6. When I filled it to just 4.5 US qts, it shown right on the money at "F" when measured at 5 minutes after engine cutoff at operating temperature with the oil filler cap off. This is the procedure spelled out in the instructions for checking the oil level. When I check it hours after engine cutoff it shows about a quarter of an inch above "F". When I fill it to 5.5, it is grossly over "F" (like an inch or more) and it looks sloppy on the stick (almost like there is air bubbles in the oil).

I recommend anyone interested in helping prove this try filling the oil to only 4.5 qts and then measuring. You can always add more right after. Worst case scenerio would only put the oil at "L" which would not endanger the engine especially if only run for a few minutes to let the oil circulate and also let the engine warm up again. Read the stick on level ground and after 5 minutes (with the oil filler cap open as discovered by Mark) to see what it reads then.

Please keep in mind that I'm only recommending this to help see if things are consistent between the V6 cars. After the test, please fill your oil to the level you feel comfortable with as I'm speaking only from my experience so far with my vehicle.

Mine now reads at "F" with a clear straight line across the top mark like I'm used to on all my other cars. My fill is only 4.5 qts currently.

 

[Mark_888]

The service manual does state all of the different filling amounts and all the conversions are indeed correct except for the 4.49 part of the drain and fill portion. The only part that seems to be wrong is everything except the 4.49 part for my 2009 V6. When I filled it to just 4.5 US qts, it shown right on the money at "F" when measured at 5 minutes after engine cutoff at operating temperature with the oil filler cap off. This is the procedure spelled out in the instructions for checking the oil level. When I check it hours after engine cutoff it shows about a quarter of an inch above "F". When I fill it to 5.5, it is grossly over "F" (like an inch or more) and it looks sloppy on the stick (almost like there is air bubbles in the oil).

I recommend anyone interested in helping prove this try filling the oil to only 4.5 qts and then measuring. You can always add more right after. Worst case scenerio would only put the oil at "L" which would not endanger the engine especially if only run for a few minutes to let the oil circulate and also let the engine warm up again. Read the stick on level ground and after 5 minutes (with the oil filler cap open as discovered by Mark) to see what it reads then.

Please keep in mind that I'm only recommending this to help see if things are consistent between the V6 cars. After the test, please fill your oil to the level you feel comfortable with as I'm speaking only from my experience so far with my vehicle.

Mine now reads at "F" with a clear straight line across the top mark like I'm used to on all my other cars. My fill is only 4.5 qts currently.

This is all well and good, but:

1. We don't know if we are getting an accurate reading on the dipstick, or if the dipstick is even the correct length, and

2. We don't know if Hyundai assumed the oil would not drain back into the crackcase when they set the "drain and fill" specs. As already noted by yourself and others, the V6 comes factory filled with the oil level well above the F mark when the oil filter has had a chance to drain back to the crankcase.

So this entire issue is still unresolved, and I wish that Hyundai would clarify it.

 

[mrgenesis2009]

This is all well and good, but:

1. We don't know if we are getting an accurate reading on the dipstick, or if the dipstick is even the correct length, and

2. We don't know if Hyundai assumed the oil would not drain back into the crackcase when they set the "drain and fill" specs. As already noted by yourself and others, the V6 comes factory filled with the oil level well above the F mark when the oil filter has had a chance to drain back to the crankcase.

So this entire issue is still unresolved, and I wish that Hyundai would clarify it.

Hi Mark,

I agree that there is still a question mark on what the oil level is really supposed to be. I contacted Hyundai national service phone number and had them create a case for this very question. I had the representative look at both service manuals for the 2009 and 2010 and she could see the conversion error for starters. I explained everything I knew and what results I was getting. The next day I get a call for her and she asked me to take my car down to the dealership to have them look into this. They want to do a drain and refill with me watching so they can show me how an oil change is supposed to be performed (I'm sure they think I don't know what I'm doing). I will do this the next time I am ready for an oil change as I have already flushed my engine three times in less than 3000 miles and they agreed.

I'm betting that when they fill it to ~5.50 it will should high again and they will just tell me that it is normal. The service manual clearly says not to overfill past "F". So until I see a TSB or some kind of bulletin stating that the overfill is normal, then and only then will I fill it to ~5.50. Unless they actually installed the wrong dip stick (which is feasible), I am going to assume they numbers are wrong and that the stick doesn't lie I did do a search in the parts catalog for Hyundai and my dip stick part number is the one they show for the V6 3.0 genesis. If the dip stick is actually the wrong part then Hyundai should be liable for that mistake.

All I know for sure is that when I filled it to ~5.5 it was always hard to read the stick even with the filler cap open. Now reading the stick easy and consistent and all the other factors (except the numbers) fall into place like the 1/4 increase over night from the filter drain.

I'm going to make sure my concern is documented with Hyundai so I'm covered in the future. I will keep on them to provide me with a logical explanation. If I do get a good answer I will certainly post it here. I hope for the sake of our cars that filling it either way (4.5-5-5) doesn't cause too much excess wear on the internals of our engines.

Ben

 

[Mark_888]

Hi Mark,

I agree that there is still a question mark on what the oil level is really supposed to be. I contacted Hyundai national service phone number and had them create a case for this very question. I had the representative look at both service manuals for the 2009 and 2010 and she could see the conversion error for starters. I explained everything I knew and what results I was getting. The next day I get a call for her and she asked me to take my car down to the dealership to have them look into this. They want to do a drain and refill with me watching so they can show me how an oil change is supposed to be performed (I'm sure they think I don't know what I'm doing). I will do this the next time I am ready for an oil change as I have already flushed my engine three times in less than 3000 miles and they agreed.

I'm betting that when they fill it to ~5.50 it will should high again and they will just tell me that it is normal. The service manual clearly says not to overfill past "F". So until I see a TSB or some kind of bulletin stating that the overfill is normal, then and only then will I fill it to ~5.50. Unless they actually installed the wrong dip stick (which is feasible), I am going to assume they numbers are wrong and that the stick doesn't lie I did do a search in the parts catalog for Hyundai and my dip stick part number is the one they show for the V6 3.0 genesis. If the dip stick is actually the wrong part then Hyundai should be liable for that mistake.

All I know for sure is that when I filled it to ~5.5 it was always hard to read the stick even with the filler cap open. Now reading the stick easy and consistent and all the other factors (except the numbers) fall into place like the 1/4 increase over night from the filter drain.

I'm going to make sure my concern is documented with Hyundai so I'm covered in the future. I will keep on them to provide me with a logical explanation. If I do get a good answer I will certainly post it here. I hope for the sake of our cars that filling it either way (4.5-5-5) doesn't cause too much excess wear on the internals of our engines.

Ben

Thanks for following up on this. But since the V6 came factory filled with the level well above the F mark, asking Hyundai about this may not solve the problem.