3.8 Oil Level on New Genesis Shows High

[Mchart]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I see similar issues with my 3.8l Genesis Coupe. My oil has been changed 3 times now - And everytime the dipstick reads a good amount over the Full mark. So honestly, I have no way of judging how much oil is actually left in the engine. I only know that it's filled correctly - Or is a good quart overfilled. Which has me concerned as I recently switch over to some Royal Purple and i'd like to actually be able to read the stick correctly so I can know if the engine is burning any oil.

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Just wanted to chime in and say that I see similar issues with my 3.8l Genesis Coupe. My oil has been changed 3 times now - And everytime the dipstick reads a good amount over the Full mark. So honestly, I have no way of judging how much oil is actually left in the engine. I only know that it's filled correctly - Or is a good quart overfilled. Which has me concerned as I recently switch over to some Royal Purple and i'd like to actually be able to read the stick correctly so I can know if the engine is burning any oil.

Hi Mchart! I looked up your engine service manual and it shows the exact same error as the 2009 3.8 Genesis sedan with regards to the 5.2L conversion to 4.49 US qts. We all should be concerned as there is no definitive answer from Hyundai or anyone else. All you can do is research it for yourself and do what you feel is right.

The following is a quote from the service manual:

2. Check the engine oil level.
After warming up the engine and then 5 minutes after the engine stop, oil level should be between the “L” and “F” marks in the dipstick.
If low, check for leakage and add oil up to the “F” mark.
Do not fill with engine oil above the “F” mark.

Personally, I am more convinced now that the service manual is incorrect with the amounts. One reason is the fluctuation reading the stick with ~5.5 US qts. If the oil is being turned into a froth it would have air mixed in after running to operating temperature and reading the dip stick would logically be more difficult. I know for my car I would get different readings checking time after time, but all showed way above "F".

I can tell you that now I can get a clean reading from the stick every time. If the manual is incorrect, the people who fill it will also fill it to what it says to fill it to. My car came from the dealer way full as well. Is it supposed to be that way??? I do not know, but the service manual contradicts itself in its instructions.

Now all of this means nothing if in fact Hyundai is installing the wrong length dip stick.

Good luck and if you experiment with ~4.5 qts let us know what your results are.

Ben

 

[Mchart]

Hi Mchart! I looked up your engine service manual and it shows the exact same error as the 2009 3.8 Genesis sedan with regards to the 5.2L conversion to 4.49 US qts. We all should be concerned as there is no definitive answer from Hyundai or anyone else. All you can do is research it for yourself and do what you feel is right.

The following is a quote from the service manual:

2. Check the engine oil level.
After warming up the engine and then 5 minutes after the engine stop, oil level should be between the “L” and “F” marks in the dipstick.
If low, check for leakage and add oil up to the “F” mark.
Do not fill with engine oil above the “F” mark.

Personally, I am more convinced now that the service manual is incorrect with the amounts. One reason is the fluctuation reading the stick with ~5.5 US qts. If the oil is being turned into a froth it would have air mixed in after running to operating temperature and reading the dip stick would logically be more difficult. I know for my car I would get different readings checking time after time, but all showed way above "F".

I can tell you that now I can get a clean reading from the stick every time. If the manual is incorrect, the people who fill it will also fill it to what it says to fill it to. My car came from the dealer way full as well. Is it supposed to be that way??? I do not know, but the service manual contradicts itself in its instructions.

Now all of this means nothing if in fact Hyundai is installing the wrong length dip stick.

Good luck and if you experiment with ~4.5 qts let us know what your results are.

Ben

Well, i'm not going to go down a full quart. The bottom line is that the dealerships are putting in 5.5 qts. If that screws up the engine - It will be covered under warranty. I also have a hard time beleiving it's 4.5 qts as BOTH hmaservice and the OM state 5.2l - Which comes out to 5.5 qts.

So I have no idea. However, the bottom line is that i'm sticking with what the service departments have been told to do - And thats 5.5 qts. Like I said, if it's found thats the wrong number - Hyundai will be responsible for repairing any damage on my engine. (Which even if 5.5 qt's is the wrong number - Going a quart over-full with engine oil shouldn't be to much of a worry)

I drove 900 miles non-stop during the summer through the desert of west texas and new mexico (Really hot outside) with my Genesis Coupe with 5.5Qt's and the engine had 0 issues. I'd say that was a pretty good test considering the car itself was being driven at over 150MPH during certain sections of the road, and the only stops were for gas. That essentially means the engine was running for 18 hours straight, and sometimes it was running full-bore.

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Well, i'm not going to go down a full quart. The bottom line is that the dealerships are putting in 5.5 qts. If that screws up the engine - It will be covered under warranty. I also have a hard time beleiving it's 4.5 qts as BOTH hmaservice and the OM state 5.2l - Which comes out to 5.5 qts.

So I have no idea. However, the bottom line is that i'm sticking with what the service departments have been told to do - And thats 5.5 qts. Like I said, if it's found thats the wrong number - Hyundai will be responsible for repairing any damage on my engine. (Which even if 5.5 qt's is the wrong number - Going a quart over-full with engine oil shouldn't be to much of a worry)

I drove 900 miles non-stop during the summer through the desert of west texas and new mexico (Really hot outside) with my Genesis Coupe with 5.5Qt's and the engine had 0 issues. I'd say that was a pretty good test considering the car itself was being driven at over 150MPH during certain sections of the road, and the only stops were for gas. That essentially means the engine was running for 18 hours straight, and sometimes it was running full-bore.

I understand your perspective and I feel the same in terms of Hyundai having to fix any problems that may come out of this from their error. Since I filled my oil to 4.5 I have been very much focused on checking my fuel efficiency to see if I see any drop on MPGs. So far it is the same as before so I think I'm not starving the engine of oil. I'm certainly not going to write this off as solved. I will keep investigating as I just don't like it when things don't add up (the engineer in me).

Whatever the real answer is I hope we aren't doing any long term damage to our engines.

Ben

 

[mrgenesis2009]

The saga continues. So I'm still looking for answers and occurred to me to check what the oil level is supposed to be on other Hyundai 2009 3.8L engines as another gauge to reveal the truth. This is what I found:

2009 3.8L Azera (TG) Capacity
Total : 6.0 L (6.34 US qt, 5.28 lmp qt)
Oil pan : 5.5 L (5.81 US qt, 4.84 lmp qt)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2 L (5.49 US qt, 4.58 lmp qt)
Oil quality : Above API SJ / SL or SAE 5W-20

2009 3.8L Veracruz (EN) Capacity
Total : 6.0L(6.34U.S.qts,5.28lmp.qts)
Oil pan : 5.5L(5.81U.S.qts,4.84lmp.qts)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2L(5.49U.S.qts,4.58lmp.qts)
Oil quality : Above API SJ/SL or SAE 5W-20

2009 Entourage (EP) Capacity
Total : 6.0L(6.34U.S.qts,5.27lmp.qts)
Oil pan : 5.5L(5.81U.S.qts,4.83lmp.qts)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2L(5.49U.S.qts,4.57lmp.qts)
Oil quality : Above API SJ/SL or SAE 5W-20

I believe these engines are the same but I am not certain of that, I can only guess that it would not be cost effective for a car manufacturer to have different engines of the same size. They all are 5.49 US quarts for the drain and refill. If that is the case the problem would seem to lie in the dip stick actually being the wrong one for the Genesis 3.8L. At this point I would like to see how hard/easy it would be to read the oil level on the other cars listed above.

I now have filled my oil up to about 5.1 US Quarts to see how that would read on the stick. I drove around for a while parked in the garage and check the level. I did not wait 5 minutes (maybe 1 minute). It was high about a 1/4 of an inch but was easy to read (straight line across stick). I check a few times and it read well every time.

So, If it is supposed to be 5.49 US quarts, I should be in the safe range but a little low. If I am high, I should also be safe as I didn't see the messy oil splattered all over the dip stick like if it was being mixed with air from the balancers or the crankshaft.

Anyway, I feel a little better now until I can get a definitive answer from Hyundai when they investigate this further(which will take time). I will be going to the dealer this weekend again at the request of Hyundai.

Ben

 

[Mark_888]

The saga continues. So I'm still looking for answers and occurred to me to check what the oil level is supposed to be on other Hyundai 2009 3.8L engines as another gauge to reveal the truth. This is what I found:

2009 3.8L Azera (TG) Capacity
Total : 6.0 L (6.34 US qt, 5.28 lmp qt)
Oil pan : 5.5 L (5.81 US qt, 4.84 lmp qt)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2 L (5.49 US qt, 4.58 lmp qt)
Oil quality : Above API SJ / SL or SAE 5W-20

2009 3.8L Veracruz (EN) Capacity
Total : 6.0L(6.34U.S.qts,5.28lmp.qts)
Oil pan : 5.5L(5.81U.S.qts,4.84lmp.qts)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2L(5.49U.S.qts,4.58lmp.qts)
Oil quality : Above API SJ/SL or SAE 5W-20

2009 Entourage (EP) Capacity
Total : 6.0L(6.34U.S.qts,5.27lmp.qts)
Oil pan : 5.5L(5.81U.S.qts,4.83lmp.qts)
Drain and refill including oil filter : 5.2L(5.49U.S.qts,4.57lmp.qts)
Oil quality : Above API SJ/SL or SAE 5W-20

I believe these engines are the same but I am not certain of that, I can only guess that it would not be cost effective for a car manufacturer to have different engines of the same size. They all are 5.49 US quarts for the drain and refill. If that is the case the problem would seem to lie in the dip stick actually being the wrong one for the Genesis 3.8L. At this point I would like to see how hard/easy it would be to read the oil level on the other cars listed above.

I now have filled my oil up to about 5.1 US Quarts to see how that would read on the stick. I drove around for a while parked in the garage and check the level. I did not wait 5 minutes (maybe 1 minute). It was high about a 1/4 of an inch but was easy to read (straight line across stick). I check a few times and it read well every time.

So, If it is supposed to be 5.49 US quarts, I should be in the safe range but a little low. If I am high, I should also be safe as I didn't see the messy oil splattered all over the dip stick like if it was being mixed with air from the balancers or the crankshaft.

Anyway, I feel a little better now until I can get a definitive answer from Hyundai when they investigate this further(which will take time). I will be going to the dealer this weekend again at the request of Hyundai.

Ben

Do the other engines have cartridge oil filters on top that drains back into the crankcase? I agree that the other engines are the same (3.8 Lambda), but may have different oil filter type and placement. The oil filter may be a key part of this problem.

But another more troubling explanation could be that while all the 3.8L engines are basically the same, the oil pan volume is slightly smaller (maybe to make room for something underneath the Genesis) and that someone at Hyundai just assumed the drain and fill amount should be the same on all the 3.8 engines, but maybe the Genesis should be different.

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Mark, good question, so I went and verified that the three cars listed all have the top mounted oil filter cartridge system. Good point about the oil pan, it could be different to accommodate different components too. The fill is the same for all three so I assume the differences if any are minor. All this information (in my mind) is starting to paint a clearer picture but it still doesn't prove anything; it just helps reinforce the possibility that the dip stick could be the wrong length.

More to come as I find out more.

Ben

 

[Mark_888]

Good point about the oil pan, it could be different to accommodate different components too. The fill is the same for all three so I assume the differences if any are minor.

What I was suggesting is that maybe the fill should not be the same for all the engines if the oil pan on the Genesis is slightly different. Maybe someone at Hyundai just assumed the fill was the same even though maybe it should not be.

The point about the dipstick being the wrong length seems unlikely (even though I was the one who suggested that it was a possibility) unless the dipstick (or dipstick tube) is different than the other engines.

Best bet may be to check the engine oil on the other engines.

 

[sandy]

Had the oil and filter changed today by a Hyundai dealer, drove home, let the car sit a while and then checked the oil level. It read about 1/4-inch above the F on the dipstick. They charged me for 6 quarts of oil.

I also noticed my dipstick had the "discolored" area above the F mark.

I think Mark mentioned he checked his oil level right after buying his car and, based on the factory fill, the level was above the F mark.

This would lead me to believe (or hope) this is the correct level as I would believe (or hope) Hyundai would be adding the correct amount of fluids to a brand new engine at the factory.

 

[Mark_888]

Had the oil and filter changed today by a Hyundai dealer, drove home, let the car sit a while and then checked the oil level. It read about 1/4-inch above the F on the dipstick. They charged me for 6 quarts of oil.

I also noticed my dipstick had the "discolored" area above the F mark.

I think Mark mentioned he checked his oil level right after buying his car and, based on the factory fill, the level was above the F mark.

This would lead me to believe (or hope) this is the correct level as I would believe (or hope) Hyundai would be adding the correct amount of fluids to a brand new engine at the factory.

Mine had the same discolored mark well above the F line which matched the factory fill amount of oil and 5.5 quarts when I drain and fill.

One would think that Hyundai knows how much oil to put in the crankcase, but if the Genesis oil pan is different than the other 3.8 V6 engines to accommodate something different in the Genesis, I could see that someone at Hyundai could have made a mistake in assuming that all 3.8 Lambda's take the same amount of oil, even if that were not true. But I certainly hope that is not what has happened.

Since the 3.8 Lambda V6 engine is used in several Hyundai and Kia vehicles, one would think that we could get to the bottom of this.

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[Mchart]

Mark, good question, so I went and verified that the three cars listed all have the top mounted oil filter cartridge system. Good point about the oil pan, it could be different to accommodate different components too. The fill is the same for all three so I assume the differences if any are minor. All this information (in my mind) is starting to paint a clearer picture but it still doesn't prove anything; it just helps reinforce the possibility that the dip stick could be the wrong length.

More to come as I find out more.

Ben

Keep in mind that the Coupe 3.8l doesn't have the top-mounted oil filter like the sedan; Yet it presents the same issue.

 

[OBCT]

Keep in mind that the Coupe 3.8l doesn't have the top-mounted oil filter like the sedan; Yet it presents the same issue.

hmmm.... in that case, I blame the dipstick manufacturer. This is an outrage!

O, how I fondly remember the good ol' days (y'know, like, 1993). Back then, dipstick quality control could be counted on unequivocally.

I ask you: what has this world come to when an automotive oil level dipstick is proven unreliable. Have mercy!!

 

[mrgenesis2009]

Well, I just got back from another dealership service center here in Orlando. I had them drain and refill my oil. I told them about my problem and they agreed to let me watch while they do it. Before the refill the mechanic was telling me that my car takes 6 qts of oil. This tells me that they have been filling the oil way too high based on the documentation. I told him mine would show way over if he filled it that much. Well anyway to make a long story short, they confirmed that it only took 4.5 qts to fill my oil to the full mark (I watched and he showed me) after engine start and stop (about 3.5 minutes). They even stated it in my work order.

Either Hyundai made a mistake when they measured and the stick is just too long or they made an error in all the documentation. Except for the online HMA website for the 2009 3.8 which shows a conversion error.

Any input is appreciated from anyone else.

Ben

 

[mrgenesis2009]

I did it again. I went to another dealership to have the oil changed to see what they would do. I provided (2) 5 quart jugs oil Mobil 1 and a Hyundai Oil Filter. They only added one jug; the second jug still has the top seal on it. The oil still shows high about a quarter of an inch above the "F" mark when I checked at 5 minutes after engine shutoff. The service advisor checked the oil right after they brought it back and it looked like it was a little above the "F" mark but he didn't wait the 5 minutes recommended by the service manual.

I previously had about 5.5 US quarts in there and I was getting about 27 miles per gallon on the highway with Mobil 1 (about 70 mph). Even though I still think it is above normal I am getting better results on the way home (about 29 mpg at 70mph) with only 5 qts. I used cruise control there and back and I also reset after I got on the highway to get better results there and back. I suspect that 4.5 is really the correct amount and that there is some 'play' between the dip stick "F" mark and where the crackshaft would begin to dip into the oil. Perhaps being 1/2 quart over is that extra 'play' but is still ok. I believe being a full quart over is a problem.

Hyundai Motors America considers my complaint closed as far as they are concerned. I was told by a person named Erin at HMA (who I was told is the person that has the last say) that if I wanted my warranty to be valid if there is any engine problems between now and 100K miles that I should have Hyundai change my oil. So that is exactly what I will do. They charged me 14 dollars for the work.

I think that Hyundai has to be very careful what they say at this point until they get more complaints about this issue. I know that I am not the only one with this problem. They must be looking at this from a legal perspective and they don't want to say anything that could come back and bite them where it hurts.

I should have had the Service Advisor put in writing the amount they used. I'll do that next time I go in for an oil change in about 5K miles.

 

[STREETS]

Suggestion:

We all make a new FULL mark 1/4 " above the F dipstick mark and call it a day!

 

[Sayantsi]

...
I previously had about 5.5 US quarts in there and I was getting about 27 miles per gallon on the highway with Mobil 1 (about 70 mph). Even though I still think it is above normal I am getting better results on the way home (about 29 mpg at 70mph) with only 5 qts. ... I suspect that 4.5 is really the correct amount and that there is some 'play' between the dip stick "F" mark and where the crackshaft would begin to dip into the oil. Perhaps being 1/2 quart over is that extra 'play' but is still ok. I believe being a full quart over is a problem...

I should have had the Service Advisor put in writing the amount they used. I'll do that next time I go in for an oil change in about 5K miles.

The more I think about this, the more I think that the dipstick is correct, and the documentation is not. For one thing, when engineers were designing the engine, they most likely designed the dipstick to read correctly. As things are copied and translated, errors can be introduced like we've already caught. For the dipstick to be incorrect but the documentation to be correct... just seems like an unlikely option.

Second, engines that are low on oil give telltale signs - pinging from dry heads and top mechanical bits, low oil pressure warnings, etc. The dipstick is supposed to provide a range of safe operating levels, and on a car that range is usually one full quart between the "add oil" and the "full" lines on a dipstick. Running an engine a little low on oil is safer than running it with too much oil, so if you are running in the 4.5-5.0 qt range, let us know what you discern. Does the engine exhibit low-oil behavior?

Either way, filling an even 5.0 quarts - either 1/2 high or 1/2 low - seems to be the safe bet. As long as you have a good volume of oil, it will do its job without damaging the engine. Although, other Hyundais all seem to take 5.5 qt at least, their dipsticks all read correctly.

 

[Mark_888]

Although, other Hyundais all seem to take 5.5 qt at least, their dipsticks all read correctly.

Do the others have the same top mounted cartridge oil filter that drains back into the crankcase?

 

[mrgenesis2009]

I'm with you on that Sayanti! I'm probably going to keep going to this particular dealership based on the fact that they ignored the 5.5 fill and went with 5 instead. I think it'll be fine. Like I said, just watching my fuel consumption it appears I'm running a little more efficiently than before. I'd rather be doing the oil changes myself but until Hyundai posts something different I need to have proof that they did it, not me.

 

[Sayantsi]

Do the others have the same top mounted cartridge oil filter that drains back into the crankcase?

I'd have to hunt for that info.

Its on top for the 2008 3.8L Vercruz:

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk228/seanp1031/VeraCruz/Oil Change/DSCN3018-1.jpg

Poster put in 6 qt - http://www.hyundai-forums.com/t33409-how-to-oil-change-in-a-vera-cruz.htm

 

[Mark_888]

I'd have to hunt for that info.

Its on top for the 2008 3.8L Vercruz:

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk228/seanp1031/VeraCruz/Oil Change/DSCN3018-1.jpg

It is on top, but looks like a different housing than Genesis (but not 100% sure) and it is "possible" that the Veracruz does not drain back into crackcase when motor is off.