Aftermarket Oil Filters

[DRS]

I have run both.. And have not found the filter with the black end caps crushed (or sucked in). And the white end cap OEM (for 2012+) filter does not have the bracing shown in this picture above

 

[homeofstone]

I have run both.. And have not found the filter with the black end caps crushed (or sucked in). And the white end cap OEM (for 2012+) filter does not have the bracing shown in this picture above

The filters in the photo of three filters are ones for my Mercedes as I stated in the post. Genesis filters are not reinforced.

 

[DRS]

Yep. None of them are. Which is too bad.

 

[shagnat]

The filters in the photo of three filters are ones for my Mercedes as I stated in the post. Genesis filters are not reinforced.

And why do you find it necessary to keep mentioning your "two mercedes" in so many of your posts. What happens with your other cars have nothing to do with the genesis.

So many products are manufactured by a single company and stamped (maybe even tooled to different specs) and sold with a ton of different names on them.

Example: That is not a Firestone filter, it is made by xyz corp for Firestone!! doh!

Vizio which sells loads of HD tvs in this country and are not a top-name brand in regards to quality and reliability, BUT, they also make HD tvs for some of the more reliable and top rated brands. So, the analogy is pretty obvious I would think.

BMW in South Carolina (built in Greenville, SC) doesn't make on single part in Greenville, SC. All the parts are subbed out except for a few select parts imported from Germany.

Same for Toyota in Tennessee, and the list goes on.

I'm sure you can understand your mercedes have nothing to do with your or our genesis cars. No comparisons are relevant between these cars.

 

[Mark_888]

Yep. None of them are. Which is too bad.

The older Hyundai OEM filters with black end caps have a fairly robust plastic lattice structure inside.

I recently saw a Fram filter for the Genesis that was made in China that is a cheap knock-off that had a much weaker internal structure. Previously, Fram was sourcing the Genesis filters from Mann (same source as the older OEM filters), but they obviously are now selling a trash product for the Genesis (the internal black o-rings looked pathetic compared to the OEM green ones).

 

[Mark_888]

Vizio which sells loads of HD tvs in this country and are not a top-name brand in regards to quality and reliability, BUT, they also make HD tvs for some of the more reliable and top rated brands. So, the analogy is pretty obvious I would think.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but Vizio does not technically manufacture any products themselves. The get their TV's from contract manufacturing companies in Asia or elsewhere.

According to Wikipedia, Vizio's major partner in the consumer electronics arena is AmTran Technology, a Taiwan-based OEM/ODM that manufactures more than half of the televisions sold by Vizio and owns a 23% stake in the company. Vizio also has products manufactured in Mexico and China under agreements with ODM assemblers in those countries.

This is not unique in the electronics business. Almost all products from Apple are made by contract manufacturing companies in Asia, although Apple owns a significant amount of the intellectual property in their products (unlike Vizio).

Even companies like IBM that assemble large mainframe computers in the US, have all the parts made to their specs by contract manufacturing companies in Asia.

 

[shagnat]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but Vizio does not technically manufacture any products themselves. The get their TV's from contract manufacturing companies in Asia or elsewhere.

According to Wikipedia, Vizio's major partner in the consumer electronics arena is AmTran Technology, a Taiwan-based OEM/ODM that manufactures more than half of the televisions sold by Vizio and owns a 23% stake in the company. Vizio also has products manufactured in Mexico and China under agreements with ODM assemblers in those countries.

This is not unique in the electronics business. Almost all products from Apple are made by contract manufacturing companies in Asia, although Apple owns a significant amount of the intellectual property in their products (unlike Vizio).

Even companies like IBM that assemble large mainframe computers in the US, have all the parts made to their specs by contract manufacturing companies in Asia.

No rain, glad you understand my point. Thanks for making it even clearer.

 

[jr429]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but Vizio does not technically manufacture any products themselves. The get their TV's from contract manufacturing companies in Asia or elsewhere.

According to Wikipedia, Vizio's major partner in the consumer electronics arena is AmTran Technology, a Taiwan-based OEM/ODM that manufactures more than half of the televisions sold by Vizio and owns a 23% stake in the company. Vizio also has products manufactured in Mexico and China under agreements with ODM assemblers in those countries.

This is not unique in the electronics business. Almost all products from Apple are made by contract manufacturing companies in Asia, although Apple owns a significant amount of the intellectual property in their products (unlike Vizio).

Even companies like IBM that assemble large mainframe computers in the US, have all the parts made to their specs by contract manufacturing companies in Asia.

Lets distinguish between an ODM and the actual manufacturer. An ODM puts stuff together but IP and sourcing is still usually done by the brand. Foxconn assembles for Apple but 90% of the components are designed by Apple to their specs (because they have hte volume to do so).

As for oil filters good luck if you're buying Firestone. How Firestone and crap brand filters come about is some buyer at Firestone takes a trip to some trade fair somewhere and meets some factory that promises to build them oil filters. Generally speaking these buyers for these types of brands are not the sharpest guys so a lot of times they'll just take on the product without really understanding the engineering and design behind a good quality product. Contrast this with a main-line brand such as FRAM or K&N who's core product is MAKING FILTERS they typically have the engineering resources to make sure their product doesn't suck. Now does this mean K&N or FRAM is going to make you a bunch more horsepower or make your oil super duper clean? No, typically drop in air filters make ZERO horsepower. Marketing aside I used to own not one but two AWD Dynamometers so I've tested a lot of crap. But the flip side of this is that engines can take a lot of abuse so even if your filter element disintegrates on the car you're probably ok unless your motor was put together with super tight tolerances. Bottom line is on Hyundai and other mass production motors like in my mercedes I have no problems running FRAM (but typically not Firestone, Shell, ChangYongHong, etc.) filters but I stick to OEM for tighter tolerance race / limited production engines.

 

[Mark_888]

Lets distinguish between an ODM and the actual manufacturer. An ODM puts stuff together but IP and sourcing is still usually done by the brand. Foxconn assembles for Apple but 90% of the components are designed by Apple to their specs (because they have hte volume to do so).

In my post that you quoted above, I said the following:

"Almost all products from Apple are made by contract manufacturing companies in Asia, although Apple owns a significant amount of the intellectual property in their products (unlike Vizio)."​

so it looks like we agree on that point about intellectual property. However, there is one more distinction. Foxconn does not just assemble Apple products, they manufacture many of the components (some they get from other contract manufacturers). Apple does not directly manufacturer any of the components (to best of my knowledge) even though (as already stated) Apple does design them and often owns the intellectual property on them.

As for oil filters good luck if you're buying Firestone. How Firestone and crap brand filters come about is some buyer at Firestone takes a trip to some trade fair somewhere and meets some factory that promises to build them oil filters. Generally speaking these buyers for these types of brands are not the sharpest guys so a lot of times they'll just take on the product without really understanding the engineering and design behind a good quality product. Contrast this with a main-line brand such as FRAM or K&N who's core product is MAKING FILTERS they typically have the engineering resources to make sure their product doesn't suck. Now does this mean K&N or FRAM is going to make you a bunch more horsepower or make your oil super duper clean? No, typically drop in air filters make ZERO horsepower. Marketing aside I used to own not one but two AWD Dynamometers so I've tested a lot of crap. But the flip side of this is that engines can take a lot of abuse so even if your filter element disintegrates on the car you're probably ok unless your motor was put together with super tight tolerances. Bottom line is on Hyundai and other mass production motors like in my mercedes I have no problems running FRAM (but typically not Firestone, Shell, ChangYongHong, etc.) filters but I stick to OEM for tighter tolerance race / limited production engines.

I personally have only used Hyundai OEM filters on my Genesis, and since I still have a large stash left from my last online order, I may not run out of the OEM filters before I get rid of my Genesis.

I don't quite agree on your analysis of filter manufacturers/distributors. Fram does manufacture many of its own filters, and for mainstream filters they have 4 different ones, of different levels of quality (for the same application). The best Fram filter is quite good and equal to just about any on the market (but it is fairly expensive).

However, Fram has never made any filter for the Genesis sedan. Initially Fram re-branded a filter made my Mann-Hummel in Korea that was identical to the Hyundai OEM filter for the Genesis (also made by Mann-Hummel). More recent versions of the Fram for the Genesis have been sourced from China, and based on my examination of them in a retail store, they are a piece of crap.

It is important to understand that the major filter companies (Fram, Purlator, Wixx, etc) no longer make every single filter they sell. At one time long ago that may have been the case, but in today's world where economy of scale is needed to be competitive, it is too costly for every company to make every filter themselves, especially for filters with limited after-market demand. At the same time, many retailers expect these filter companies to supply them with filters for all vehicles (or almost all), so the filter companies have become distributors of filters they don't make themselves in some cases, and not just manufacturers, even if their name is on every filter.

 

[homeofstone]

Mark888 I agree with you and for example Hyundai is supplying engines and transmissions to other car manufacturers. Much is global shared R&D.

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[jr429]

It is important to understand that the major filter companies (Fram, Purlator, Wixx, etc) no longer make every single filter they sell. At one time long ago that may have been the case, but in today's world where economy of scale is needed to be competitive, it is too costly for every company to make every filter themselves, especially for filters with limited after-market demand. At the same time, many retailers expect these filter companies to supply them with filters for all vehicles (or almost all), so the filter companies have become distributors of filters they don't make themselves in some cases, and not just manufacturers, even if their name is on every filter.

True, most of the brands are becoming more distributors than actual manufacturers but most of the products are still built to specs defined by their in-house team of engineers and will perform QC to ensure specs are met. Generally speaking the larger brands that specialize in filters will err on the side of caution rather than risking a lawsuit for destroying a cars entire lubrication system. The smaller brands I'm not so sure. But honestly with larger displacement engines that are built on looser tolerances (like the genesis) I think you're ok with running non-OEM filters, my only concern would be lazy people like me that don't change the oil after 10k miles and the filter actually disintegrates haha.

 

[Mark_888]

True, most of the brands are becoming more distributors than actual manufacturers but most of the products are still built to specs defined by their in-house team of engineers and will perform QC to ensure specs are met. Generally speaking the larger brands that specialize in filters will err on the side of caution rather than risking a lawsuit for destroying a cars entire lubrication system. The smaller brands I'm not so sure. But honestly with larger displacement engines that are built on looser tolerances (like the genesis) I think you're ok with running non-OEM filters, my only concern would be lazy people like me that don't change the oil after 10k miles and the filter actually disintegrates haha.

Generally, I might agree, but I inspected the new Fram filter made in China for the Genesis, and I think it is clearly inferior to the OEM. That includes the very thin internal O-rings (not talking about the external O-rings that get attached to the plastic housing), and the internal structure is quite flimsy instead of the thick plastic used on the OEM. Previously, Fram sold an excellent filter for the Genesis, since it was identical to the OEM one (both made by Mann-Hummel in Korea).

 

[shagnat]

I'll buy the first batch of popcorn...... who's gonna' get the next????

 

[mtrot]

OK, for the last few months, I have been getting my oil changed at a place here by the name of Time It, who bought out all the local Super Lube locations. They have been using whatever their house brand of oil filter is.

I just had my oil changed today and attached are pics I just took of the filter they removed from the car. As you can see, it is collapsed on one side and there is a hole going into the inside of the filter.

Based on comments in another thread here about engine clatter on start up, I went to the Hyundai dealer and bought an OEM oil filter, which I had them install today when they did the change.

After looking at some of the posts in this thread, I now wonder if I did the right thing by going with the OEM filter. Is there a best brand filter I can use which won't collapse? Thanks for any help.

 

[Mark_888]

After looking at some of the posts in this thread, I now wonder if I did the right thing by going with the OEM filter. Is there a best brand filter I can use which won't collapse? Thanks for any help.

The OEM filter is good and you cannot go wrong with it. You did the correct thing bringing your own filter (Genesis OEM) to the oil change place. I have always done that for all my cars when getting oil changed some place other than the dealer, since long before I bought my Genesis.

The OEM filter is the best brand. The Hyundai OEM filters for Genesis were made by Mann-Humell, or Mahle (depending on which engine you have and the model year of your car). Some after-market filters are identical to the OEM's, but the ones they installed at your oil change place and that collapsed were not the same as the OEM.

Do not believe the BS that Wix, Purolator, etc make better filters for the Genesis than the OEM ones.

 

[DeadRun]

I do not believe that the oil filter with the black end caps is the correct oil filter for the 2012 V8 4.6 Genesis. I have consistently been provided with the white end cap Mehle filters from my local dealers. And since I change my own oil I see them every time. Also, I am of the opinion that there are only 2 different oil filters made to fit the Genesis. The one with the black end caps and the one with the white end caps. It seems that the one with white end caps can be made in Korea or in Poland (I think). Every white end cap filter that I have obtained from the dealer has been marked "Korea", but I have seen pics of the "Poland" filters online with white end caps. Every time that i have read of the filter crushing issue, it has been with those using the black end cap filters. I do not know if they are all V8 or not.

In my mind, V8 Genesis users should avoid the oil filters with the black end caps.

I would encourage V8 owners who have used the black end cap filters to post their experience.

 

[Mark_888]

I do not believe that the oil filter with the black end caps is the correct oil filter for the 2012 V8 4.6 Genesis. I have consistently been provided with the white end cap Mehle filters from my local dealers. And since I change my own oil I see them every time. Also, I am of the opinion that there are only 2 different oil filters made to fit the Genesis. The one with the black end caps and the one with the white end caps. It seems that the one with white end caps can be made in Korea or in Poland (I think). Every white end cap filter that I have obtained from the dealer has been marked "Korea", but I have seen pics of the "Poland" filters online with white end caps. Every time that i have read of the filter crushing issue, it has been with those using the black end cap filters. I do not know if they are all V8 or not.

In my mind, V8 Genesis users should avoid the oil filters with the black end caps.

I would encourage V8 owners who have used the black end cap filters to post their experience.

When you say there are only two OEM filters for the Genesis, you are correct. The one with black end cap is made by Mann-Hummel, and the one with whiter end cap is made by Mahle. The newer V8's specify the Mahle filters. I know that in 2009, the only filter available was the one from Mann-Hummel with black end caps for both the V6 and V8.

mtrot is talking about an after-market oil filter, not branded Hyundai or not one of the after-market filters (also made by Mann-Hummel or Mahle) that are identical to the OEM's. In theory, some other company could make a high quality after-market filter for the Genesis that is as good or better than the OEM (or after-markets that are identical to the OEM), but in this case the filter he got at the quick lube is junk. The filter that mtrot got at the quick lube is probably the correct filter in terms of specifications, but it is just a piece of junk. It is not the OEM filter with black end caps made by Mann-Hummel. Quick lube places typically use filters that cost them about $1 or $2 at most, and you imagine how bad the quality of these filters are, and whenever I have gone to a quick lube (prior to owning the Genesis since I now do my own oil changes) I have always brought my own filter (OEM or quality after-market).

 

[T_E]

Compare the length of the OE filters with the aftermarket versions. It may be that the length of the aftermarket ones is longer, thus buckling them when the housing is tightened up during installation.

 

[Mark_888]

Compare the length of the OE filters with the aftermarket versions. It may be that the length of the aftermarket ones is longer, thus buckling them when the housing is tightened up during installation.

I think there is a lot of confusion on how to tighten the housing cap. Some tighten to a certain torque, and some tighten all the way down (which may be the problem). But I just don't think it is a good idea to use an after market oil filter that most quick lube shops would use, because they are very cheaply built (for any model of car).

 

[mtrot]

When you say there are only two OEM filters for the Genesis, you are correct. The one with black end cap is made by Mann-Hummel, and the one with whiter end cap is made by Mahle. The newer V8's specify the Mahle filters. I know that in 2009, the only filter available was the one from Mann-Hummel with black end caps for both the V6 and V8.

mtrot is talking about an after-market oil filter, not branded Hyundai or not one of the after-market filters (also made by Mann-Hummel or Mahle) that are identical to the OEM's. In theory, some other company could make a high quality after-market filter for the Genesis that is as good or better than the OEM (or after-markets that are identical to the OEM), but in this case the filter he got at the quick lube is junk. The filter that mtrot got at the quick lube is probably the correct filter in terms of specifications, but it is just a piece of junk. It is not the OEM filter with black end caps made by Mann-Hummel. Quick lube places typically use filters that cost them about $1 or $2 at most, and you imagine how bad the quality of these filters are, and whenever I have gone to a quick lube (prior to owning the Genesis since I now do my own oil changes) I have always brought my own filter (OEM or quality after-market).

Interesting. When I provided the OEM filter to Time It, they only gave me $1 credit for bringing my own filter(which cost me $13 at the Hyundai dealer)! So, your value estimate may be spot on.